Talk:Bristol Harbour

	Bristol Harbour was one of the Engineering and technology good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result May 29, 2007 Good article nominee Listed June 2, 2008 Good article reassessment Kept April 21, 2024 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

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There is no mention in this section of the railway being built along many of the parts of the harbour. I'd guess the railway came to the centre section of the floating harbour (via the Portbury line (B&E?) from the west and from Temple Meads (GWR?) from the east) in the 1860s? I think the the Midland railway also had a much smaller rail terminal around Temple Quay. The Bristol Harbour Railway still runs on the south side of the harbour and along the Welsh Back.

Also there is no mention of the various cranes (some of which still exist) that would have greatly increased the speed and capacity of handling loads. Some of these cranes were last updated in the mid 20th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.99.20 (talk) 15:08, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a link to Bristol Harbour Railway in the "today" section but some of this info could be added in the 19th century section. Many of the cranes etc are described in Bristol Industrial Museum but again more could be added.— Rod ^talk 15:37, 7 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bristol Industrial Museum closed in 2006. To keep up with the times, the reference to the "old industrial museum" on the harbour map should more accurately refer to M Shed museum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.195.93 (talk) 22:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is a picture of the "Cannons Marsh Bonded Warehouse Demolition", but no reference to this in the text. Can someone who knows about it add something, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The final sentence of the lede says "At Hotwells, the floating harbour rejoins the tidal River Avon, via a series of locks, and flows into the Avon Gorge." Looking at it in Google Earth, there is just one lock there, not a series of locks. I propose changing this sentence, unless someone can convince me I am wrong. Maproom (talk) 22:36, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There were four locks there at one time, now there are two. I don't know what you mean by "one lock", whether you're referring to the North outer lock (which is clearly visible on Google Maps, as the gates are closed) or to

lock. Either way, both of the North locks are still operational. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:54, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

(ec) There are currently two locks (others are no longer operative). One is between the main harbour and the Cumberland Basin (shown as 10 on the map) and there is another after the Cumberland Basin where it opens into the Avon Gorge. If you look at the photo in the article of the Cumberland Basin (1st photo on the left of the Construction... section) this is looking east and the swing bridge which is over the first lock can be seen in the distance (Lat (WGS84) N51:26:53 (51.448028), Long (WGS84) W2:37:05 (-2.618053), LR ST571722). The photo of "A Tall ship in Cumberland lock..." is of the outer larger lock which is close to the Plimsol bridge at Lat (WGS84) N51:26:57 (51.449124), Long (WGS84) W2:37:24 (-2.623263), LR ST567724. There is also Netham Lock at the other end of the harbour, but that is probably not significant to this discussion.— Rod ^talk 22:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your answers. Thank you, Rod, in particular for your precise coordinates, which make it clear exactly what you are talking about (it would solve many problems in my life if everyone were as precise). I understand my mistake now. Google Earth shows things at high tide, and both sets of gates of the lock at W2:37:05 (which someone there has called the "Pump House Lock") are open, making it inconspicuous until I zoom in far enough to see the lock gate housings. Maproom (talk) 10:09, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The tide is not the key factor. That lock (the old pump-house which provided hydraulic power is next to it - but is now a pub) is left open most of the time enabling Cumberland basin to be refilled from the main harbour - which itself is filled from the River Avon at Netham Lock - which itself is left open most of the time.— Rod ^talk 18:30, 20 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any old maps showing the original course that could be added to this article? It'd help with the opening description, as it's rather difficult visualizing the course between the Feeder Canal and the New Cut at Netham Lock. Where did the current original course meet the current original course? I guess it's more of a question of where the New Cut begins. --Criticalthinker (talk) 18:31, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jessop's plan map shows it fairly well. The old course is still pretty much the course of the harbour, the new part is the New Cut (the current river) to the South. The only part which has disappeared is the old river course through what is now Totterdown Basin and part of the canal. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:47, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, so the original course of the harbor met the original course of the river at Totterdown Basin. I think that map would be very helpful somewhere in this article. I guess what has me confused is that the sparse description on the Bristol Feeder Canal doesn't mention the western end of the canal, and if you're just looking at an aerial or map, part of the original course beyond Totterdown Basin actually looks as straight as the feeder canal all the way up to about Castle Park. So it isn't readily apparent upon aerial inspection where the canal was dug to from Totterdown Basin. Thanks, again. --Criticalthinker (talk) 18:59, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, something else which I'm unclear about is whether the Cumerbland Basin or the New Cut was built first. The page for the Cumberland Basin reads that the Avon originally didn't flow through the Cumberland Basin. I'm still wondering, also, whether the New Cut was built pe rimarily for navigation or flood control. The New Cut would have diverted a lot of traffic away from the heart of Bristol had it been built for navigation, though. How do the Cumberland Basin and New Cut relate? --Criticalthinker (talk) 19:07, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, the original harbour moved around a bit! The Avon doesn't have quite the tide of the Severn this far inland, but it was still enough to make it wander by erosion of the soft mud, and its deep channel in particular, around the bottom of the harbour. As much as anything about the height, this sideways movement made building good quays difficult. The medieval port was at the inland end of the current harbour (St Augustine's Quay and Welsh Back) and the narrower, firmer channels. The wide mudflats around Hotwells weren't used much other than for timber, loaded by 'deal runners' who carried loads from beached ships at low tide, rather than from hard quaysides. A similar thing happened with the River Taff in Cardiff, leading Brunel to move the river westwards, control its channel and use the money from the sale of the recovered land to pay for it all (which also removed an insalubrious and insanitary part of the town).

Before Jessop, the river flowed through what's now the Underfall Yard, then into a tight curve rightwards and into the Gorge. Jessop dammed straight across this to make the first depth control spillway. Building the Cumberland Basin where it is also allowed this corner to be cut off, which became increasingly important with longer ships - although there wasn't much deliberate foresight here. The Great Britain needed stonemasons to take the kerb stones off the basin before it could get out. Brunel also built the Southern lock of the basin, but this was later abandoned as too small and now only the enlarged Northern lock is in use. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:36, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bristol Harbour