Talk:Cloth menstrual pad

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Sorry about the POV tag, but this really isn't, and I really haven't got time to fix it. It would be a great article on a site that didn't require a NPOV, but at the moment it's too positive. Some people think cloth pads are gross, some wouldn't care for the washing, etc. I like them too, but I care about wiki policies. --Kelly holden 23:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I had intended to add a disadvantages section, but as I finished that ar around 2am, I decided to put it up and add that later, which I have done now. It is dificult for an article such as this to point out things like the environmental, economical and other benefits of using cloth menstrual pads (which are facts), without sounding positive. And given that there is not much information on this topic available, it is important for it to be mentioned. Are there any areas in specific you think should be dealt with? - Obsi 01:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this article is biased. The article includes some good information, which could be preserved in this article with rewording to make it

I think one of the main things that makes this article POV is the phrasing used. There is also the issue of which information is appropriate for an encyclopedia article and which information is not. At this stage I am struggling to work out which information belongs here and which information doesn't. So to begin with, I have made some changes to some of the phrasing to try and make it NPOV, but I acknowledge that some of the rephrased information still may not be appropriate for a wikipedia article. I have particularly been focusing on trying to steer away from the "instructional" tone to make the article less "this is what you need to do to convert to cloth pads" and more, "cloth pads exist, this is what they are, this is what is known about them and their history". --A vivid dreamer 04:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have expanded the introductory paragraph a bit. --A vivid dreamer 05:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This was my first go at a wiki post/article/edit, so I was trying to do the best I could, but I understand your points. --Obsi 11:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's impressive that you wrote a whole article as your first post/edit!  :) I really respect that you started this article, as it's an interesting topic that the

What do other people think? Any preferences or suggestions as to what this section could be called?--A vivid dreamer 08:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the history section needs to be more specific to cloth pads. Maybe we could present it in a time line format? eg.

• 1700's - women used x kind of pads
• 1800's - women used y kind of pads
• 1900's - women used z kind of pads

etc etc... If we had pictures of examples of the kinds of cloth pads used over the centuries, it could even be presented in a gallery style eg.

• example of cloth pad used in 1700's
  example of cloth pad used in 1700's
• example of cloth pad used in 1800's
  example of cloth pad used in 1800's
• example of cloth pad used in 1900's
  example of cloth pad used in 1900's
• example of cloth pad used in 2000's
  example of cloth pad used in 2000's

Though I imagine it might be hard to come accross appropriate pictures that could be freely used. --A vivid dreamer 08:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The history section uses the words "it would appear", a number of times. To me this comes accross as saying that the writer has looked around and come to that opinion, rather than these bits of information actually being facts that have been proved by propper research. Wikipedia has a policy

No original research, I think this would count as original research. There's a difference between citing the conclusions from results of a formal study and reading as much information you can find on a topic and drawing your own conclusions. The latter is original research, and according to the current wording of the article, it gives the impression that this is what has taken place. --A vivid dreamer 06:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply

]

As for formal studies.... to my knowledge there have not been any formal studies into cloth menstrual pads - of any nature. Even a place like The Museum of menstruation (www.mum.org) isn't published, so isn't considered to be proper research. Obsi 10:53, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have made some changes to the advantages and disadvantages sections in an attempt to make this article NPOV and to make these sections more reader-friendly. These changes included:

• Breaking the lists up into categories (environmental, economical, personal, health/safety)
• Removing the detailed explanations - some (particularly the explanations listed under advantages) were POV, and most of the other detailed explanations were repeating the information already covered in the bullet point lists.
• Moved the remaining appropriate information from the detailed explanations into the bullet point lists (however some of the points may need references added to them).
• I removed the link to a survey about cloth pads shortening the length of the menstrual cycle ([1]), because the survey was not a
  reliable source
  .

--A vivid dreamer 08:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have rearranged the article and condensed some of the sections into broader sections (as some of the previous sections only contained a few sentences each). I've reworded a lot of things to be more NPOV, but I have retained most of the information from the original content. --A vivid dreamer 08:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone have any infomation on menstrual blood being left around for days? That doesn't seem safe to me but I can't find any information on it. Same with the washing instructions. All the sources say to just simply rinse them in cold water or put in with a regular clothes wash. But is all the bacteria etc cleaned away by doing that? I wouldn't think so, but again I can't find any information on this.

I've added a "citation needed" tag to the bit in the article that refers to there being no need to boil or sanatise the pads unless the woman has had thrush.--A vivid dreamer 06:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Menstrual blood is (from what I understand) actually sterile, because it is the tissue in which an embryo implants. It is only when bacteria from outside the body and on the pad finds the warm wet environment, that it contains bacteria. I am looking for evidence to back this up, but it is my understanding Nicgeorge 08:44, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, seems I got it wrong....but not entirely. Menstrual blood has high quanities of Antibacterial hemoglobin peptides which kill bacteria and maintain a healthy vagina. I mean, if menstrual blood had bacteria in it, we would all have thrush all of the time.... http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15501514 Nicgeorge 08:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the person was worried about bacteria in the menstrual blood itself, but rather the potential of bacteria breeding in the blood left on a cloth pad for several days before it is washed (or a pad being soaked in bloody water for days before being washed in a washing machine). So, the questions are:

• Does washing a cloth pad (without boiling or sanitising/sterilising) kill any bacteria that may have formed when the pad was left sitting around/soaking?
• And does any remaining bacteria have the potential to cause thrush or other health problems for the woman?--A vivid dreamer 09:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly Vivid. Those are the questions I feel need to be answered. It seems like an obvious concern to me but I haven't saw it mentioned anywhere while i've been reading about the subject. The menstrual blood while still inside the body is not really relevant to the subject of menstrual pads. But once the blood is outside the body on the pads it will begin to decompose. There is definitely (bad) bacteria on the pads. If not from the actual blood then from the surrounding skin, or due to the heat,dampness etc.

Thrush is caused by a yeast called candida, not by bacteria, therefore no amount of bacteria causes thrush, only the candida yeast causes thrush. Bacteria is everywhere. If you swabbed your skin and clothing, you'd find bacteria - its impossible to have anything bacteria free in everyday life. Even if you are to completely sanitise something, as soon as it comes in contact with the air, its potentially contaminated again. Underpants, clothing and bedding that are subject to menstrual blood from leakage are often not boiled or sanitised, just washed and reused. Disposable sanitary products (including tampons) are not sterile either might I point out. Obsi 10:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First off I would like to advise people that generally even if my wording seems to be directed at a specific person it usually isn’t, it is simply my style of writing. Secondly I blame all writing peppered with sarcasm on my Postmenstrual Syndrome. I would like to dispute both the advantages and disadvantages sections.

Advantages:

Personal Benefits {Let’s stop right here for a moment and take note of the use of the word benefits in lieu of advantage, it’s in the advantage section yet each subcategory there is listed as a benefit rather then an advantage. Let your eyes wander down a bit more and you will notice the same is not true of the disadvantages section. Benefits are implicit of something extra you get, but not necessarily an advantage. Meaning that essentially this is subtly manipulating the reader by saying “Well there are good things about them, But they aren’t exactly advantages over the disposables.” Secondly I object to the mention of the cloth pads being less likely to cause rashes and such under personal benefits rather then health advantages. The disadvantages section has both a personal and health disadvantages section. ]

   * Customizable to each individual's preferences (eg. fabric colour, fabric type, washing detergents used, size, shape, style).

[Fine.]

   * Less likely to cause rashes, contact dermatitis, and unpleasant odors.

[Also may help some women with vaginitis.]

   * No sticky tape in inconvenient places.

[I didn’t realize my vagina is an inconvenient place, same goes for my pubic hair or as those fond of being too embarrassed to use the correct terms say “The hair down there.” I think the real problem for me was always that my hair would get caught in the inconvenient sticky tape of the disposable pads. My vagina and hair were then and continue to be exactly where they are supposed to be, the tape wasn’t; it was supposed to be firmly attached to my underwear not firmly trying to remove my hair. If I want painful hair removal I’ll get a bikini wax.]

   * Many claim lighter menstrual flows and lessened cramping.

[Many claim is lawyer and politician speak, a better phrase would be “Some women experience lighter menstrual flows, less days menstruating, as well as lessened cramping.”]

So my version would say:

• Customizable to each individual's preferences (eg. fabric colour, fabric type, washing detergents used, size, shape, style).
• Less likely to cause rashes, contact dermatitis, and unpleasant odors. As well as helping some women afflicted with vaginitis.
• No sticky tape to get caught on hair or skin.
• More breathable then the average disposable pad.
• When in use they are less likely to cause undue strange [plastic-like] noises when moving, as they are not made with the same material as disposable pads.
• Some women experience lighter menstrual flows, less days menstruating, as well as lessened cramping..

Personal disadvantages

   * Takes time to wash and dry the pads.
   * Handwashing cloth menstrual pads can be time consuming and difficult.
   * Usually bulkier than many disposable pads.
   * Many women find the concept unpleasant.
   * Other family/household members may be uncomfortable with their use.
   * Cloth pads can stain.
   * Users have more contact with blood.
   * Using disposable pads is quicker and easier.
   * It is generally more socially acceptable to use Disposable pads.
   * Many women would not like the added complication of caring for menstrual pads.

Environmental disadvantages

   * Water is required to wash cloth menstrual pads
   * Use of non-biogradable laundry detergents could contribute to water pollution

[Due to this article informing people about what cloth pads are and the disadvantages and advantages being obviously weighed against disposable menstrual products I feel this section implies that the cloth pads would have a significant negative impact on the environment, which is both ridiculous and unfounded. Whereas the environmental impact of disposables is quite nauseating. In addition to that the mention of water being required to wash reusable menstrual products is insulting to the intelligence of the reader. Furthermore you cannot count using non-biodegradable (biogradable is not a word) as a negative because that makes a broad assumption that the woman would not use a biodegradable product. Since it seems the majority of people use name brand detergents then chances are the products they use are non-biodegradable. Which basically means that one jumping to conclusions could say that doing laundry period; is hazardous to the environment due to it requiring water and the assumed usage of non-biodegradable detergent and thus a disadvantage to washing clothes to be worn again. I believe that anyone who researched reusable pads would find that many of the women who use them are environmentally conscious and thus more likely to buy biodegradable laundry detergents. Although the impact on the environment was not a major factor in my decision to switch to cloth pads, it did cause me to become more conscientious of other products I use as I searched for the perfect detergent for them.]

Personal disadvantages

   * Takes time to wash and dry the pads.
   * Handwashing cloth menstrual pads can be time consuming and difficult.
   * Usually bulkier than many disposable pads.
   * Many women find the concept unpleasant.
   * Other family/household members may be uncomfortable with their use.
   * Cloth pads can stain.
   * Users have more contact with blood.
   * Using disposable pads is quicker and easier.
   * It is generally more socially acceptable to use Disposable pads.
   * Many women would not like the added complication of caring for menstrual pads.

[This section seems to needlessly repeat the same points to really drive home just how inconvenient cloth pads supposedly are. I think it can be condensed to something along the lines of this:]

Personal disadvantages

   * More time consuming due to the need to wash, dry, and care for the pads. Unless one chooses to launder them in the washing machine and dryer.
   * Usually bulkier than the average disposable pads.
   * Removing stains can be difficult, depending on if it the blood has dried or not, the fabric color and material, and detergent used.
   * Users have more contact with their blood.

[I will break down my concerns with each line.]

• Takes time to wash and dry the pads.

[Fine except this only applies if you choose to hand-wash and air dry them, as many brands and most importantly the name brand cloth pads can be laundered in a washing machine and dryer. This line is also quickly repeated in different forms afterwards.]

   * Handwashing cloth menstrual pads can be time consuming and difficult.

[Redundant and handwashing should actually be hand-washing, you will not find the word handwash or handwashing in even the unabridged Merriam-Webster dictionary. Therefore the two words need to be hyphenated rather then merged. Also hand-washing the pads in and of itself is not difficult, but removing stains from them can be.]

   * Usually bulkier than many disposable pads.

[I changed many to average, since there are also many disposables that I find too bulky and more so then my cloth pads.]

   * Many women find the concept unpleasant.

[That is a matter of pure opinion and is more likely to be found in women who are ignorant to modern day cloth pads. I’ve found that once educated on the product that women seem more curious about the cloth pads then disgusted. Though many more are just surprised that this product still exists.]

   * Other family/household members may be uncomfortable with their use.

[In what way does that need to be mentioned in an encyclopedia? Furthermore it drives home the idea that a period needs to be convenient not just to you but others and that before being concerned about how your period affects you remember how it affects your family and friends. So hiding every item that indicates you actually are a healthy and thus menstruating woman needs to be kept top secret, being quiet is also a good idea. Perhaps one could also employ the classic though antiquated euphemisms such as “Aunt Flow has come to town.” Or “Playing banjo in Sgt. Zygote's Ragtime Band.”

Also for those women that feel a need to keep it out of the eyes of others there are soaker pots (It is exactly what it sounds like.) and a woman could easily take them from the soaker pot, throw them in a separate load in the washing machine, to the dryer, then back to whatever they store them in. How is this any different then taking care of bloodstained underwear, sheets, or clothes?

In addition to that women that are postpartum use very heavy disposable or reusable pads for awhile afterwards. I knew this happened but I thought it was for about a week but I have since found out it can last much longer. My best-friend gave me a full description of her 6 weeks of postpartum bleeding (also called a postpartum period) and blood clot experience as well as the additional couple of weeks where just clear fluid comes out after the bleeding stops. Since the average woman will reproduce then the people who live with her will have to get use to there being lots of pads around and other signs of bleeding really quick, because discrete for 5-7 days a month possible but 3+ weeks, yeah right. Somehow I find washing my own blood out of cloth a whole lot more appealing then the kind of frightening though still natural aspects of pregnancy, childbirth, and after the fact. This also assumes a whole lot about other people.

My male roommate doesn’t care, he finds the idea curious, but it doesn’t bother him, it’s my body after all and I don’t hide the cloth pads. I have my own sink and I wash out all the blood that will come out of them, then soak with stain remover if necessary before handwashing them, sometimes they are there soaking in the sink for awhile. The clean pads are in an easy access pouch hanging from a towel hook during my period, I always air dry them in my room. And really what is the difference between them being around soaking and disposables sitting around in the waste bin? Now you may say to yourself that my male roommate must be a very open-minded liberal male and then you would find out what assumptions can sometimes make you.]

   * Users have more contact with blood.

[This is a very subtle manipulation in wording to bring about a certain feeling about the cloth pads. It is the lack of the word “their”. The exemption of that word brings forth an idea of blood in a general sense, not as a part of the woman, and is likely to cause a negative feeling and general sense of disconnection from it since the average person is not comfortable with any type of blood from Other people. During your period you will have contact with Your blood when you shower, freshen up, use the bathroom, change whatever type of menstrual product you use, clean spots from underwear, clothes, sheets etc and unfortunately sometimes have to remove it from the bathroom floor or carpets when you did not win the race to get your chosen product arranged with underwear and on your body after showering or changing clothes before the flow resumed/continued. It’s your blood and if you have a problem touching your own blood then the problem isn’t that you’re bleeding from your vagina; it’s a much more severe problem in your head. But then one could always go the latex glove route or latex-free for those with a latex allergy.]

   * Using disposable pads is quicker and easier.

[Redundant, as it has already been established that cloth pads can be more time consuming depending on the way they are laundered. So I believe an intelligent person could put 2 and 2 together and figure out that if reusable pads can take more time then disposables on average must take less time. I personally don’t find attaching a clean cloth pad to my underwear to be anymore time consuming or challenging then attaching a disposable one. Lunapads brand are even less time consuming to deal with outside of the home since most of the time you just have to change just the liners not the entire holder and liners which makes them different then most of their competitors and this takes less time then changing a disposable pad.]

   * It is generally more socially acceptable to use Disposable pads.

[Who cares? All this biased sentence does is seek to further ingrain the prejudice people have against menstruation in general and to remind people to stay with the herd least they be ousted from it.]

   * Many women would not like the added complication of caring for menstrual pads.

[Part pure opinion and part redundancy. I would also like to add that I at least do not find the challenge of caring for my menstrual pads to be overly taxing. Somehow I still have time to go to school, work, go shopping and do loads and loads of homework. Or perhaps the problem is with me, because I have had so many other [more] valid complications in my life that I can more easily take on new and difficult tasks such as washing cloth items and letting them air dry.]

Health/safety disadvantages

   * Special care may need to be taken if the user has  Thrush (the cloth menstrual pads may need to be boiled or sanitized to reduce the chances of transmitting this infection to other members of the family or reinfecting the woman herself.]

[Exactly how does one transmit a Candidiasis infection to other members of the family due to cloth pads? Websites that sell cloth pads almost always clearly state not to share the cloth pads with others, arguably the same goes for your underwear. If someone chooses to share either after having an infection and thus transmit it to the other user then that is not a disadvantage of using cloth pads it is a disadvantage of their brains not working properly. Several times in my late teens I had a Candidiasis infection, though I was advised to wear cotton underwear since it is more breathable I was never once told to boil my underwear afterwards because of possible reinfection. Logically you could also conclude that if doctors recommend cotton underwear during that time that cotton pads would help as well. Whether clean or used no one touches my underwear or cloth pads except me. Oh and while I’m being a stickler for attempts at proper spelling and such, then I offer the following to peruse at one’s leisure.]

[From Merriam-Webster.com] Main Entry: 2thrush Pronunciation Guide Pronunciation: " Function: noun Inflected Form(s): -es Etymology: probably of Scandinavian origin; akin to Danish & Norwegian trøske thrush, Swedish torsk, Swedish dialect trosk thrush; probably akin to Swedish dialect trosk growth, Norwegian dialect trausk, trosk 1 a : a mycotic disease of the upper digestive tract characterized by the formation of white plaques within the oral cavity often coalescing in a false membrane, occurring especially in debilitated children and adults and in birds, and caused by infection with a fungus (Candida albicans) b : any of several oral disorders (as sore mouth of sheep) more or less resembling this mycotic disease 2 : an inflammatory and suppurative affection of the feet in various animals; specifically : a purulent degenerative state of the frog in the horse]

[Speaking from my own personal yeast infection experiences, I have never once managed to transfer a vaginal yeast infection to my mouth or anyone else’s for that matter. I would love to meet the person who can prove that they got thrush from a reusable pad.

In addition to all of that I have in the past been told that water alone will kill many germs. Most detergents including some environmentally friendly ones have the potential to decrease the waterproofing in those cloth pads that have some type of waterproof material in place. I too was concerned about perhaps not getting out any possible remaining bacteria that could cause a problem. After careful research I settled on the environmentally friendly brand Biokleen (sometimes: Bi-O-Kleen), I use Bac-Out to help with sanitation and stains and their free & clear liquid detergent for hand and machine washing. It should be noted that your blood is not unsanitary to you and other people should keep their hands off of any clothes or pads you may have bled on. Once again I fail to see the difference between throwing a pad or tampon in the trash and it remaining there several days before going outside to be collected, thus giving it ample time to develop bacteria and not washing a cloth pad right away thus it developing bacteria. The products I use safely and gently break down organic stains and remove them so they do not become a problem.

If people are so disgusted by their own blood and natural body functions and overly concerned about how their period affects those around them, then perhaps they should forgo the aforementioned latex gloves and instead take one of those anti-menstruation pills now being practically pushed down women’s throats.

I think a lot of the problem here is that women most likely to write an article on reusable pads are most likely a user and fan of them and thus the article will reflect that. But those articles bring those who not just prefer disposable pads but find reusable pads to be disgusting out of the woodwork as well. It is a classic case of society’s unwritten laws being enforced on those that defect from the norm. One thing that is attractive about the cloth pad crowd is that in general you will find a group that doesn’t tell you your period is awful or disgusting or needs to be kept secret and convenient. They won’t shame you and if you decide to stay with using disposables after they tell you about cloth pads or you go back to disposables then they don’t treat you like you’re a freak or disgusting because you choose to make monthly donations to landfills. It’s not that many aspects of your period are not uncomfortable, a little icky or even painful, but these women help others to more readily accept their period and live harmoniously with it rather then wage a constant battle against it. I feel much more positive about my period then I use to since I started using cloth pads and that’s a fact for me that cannot be disputed.] User: Berlin Porcelain 3:50AM December 2, 2006 CST

Oh and I wanted to add that use of the word Thrush though used incorrectly throughout the article before I edited it, can be used correctly if the word vaginal is placed before it. Vaginal thrush is the more correct term, but I used yeast infection in lieu of it. User: Berlin Porcelain 9:14 PM December 3, 2006 CST

The problem is, that section was added in order to try and make the entry seem less positive to cloth because of its NPOV.... that's why things like them being a hassle to clean was added. Purple obsidian 05:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I hate to say it but your "comment" grew into a novel. I'm saying this and I usually write emails to friends and family that extend into up to ten paragraphs (much shorter in each, though). I only got through three-fourths of this rant.

Anyway, the point of this article is not to reflect your own accuracy. Women did not create the article because of their love of alternative feminine hygiene products. We have articles on murder, Communism, roadkill, and all of that. We don't love it. If you feel like this article is not quite accurate, then by all means, why don't you go ahead and make the necessary changes? The problem is RELIABLE SOURCING. Although chances are, you probably won't see this because it's been over two years. ★Dasani★ 02:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In my searches across the web I have found zero evidence that underwear and cloth menstrual pads need to be boiled following a yeast infection. The Only information I found that suggested this besides this entry are other sites that were reprinting this entry on their sites. I’m removing that suggestion, if anyone can find a reliable source for it in the future then feel free to add it back of course with the proper citation. But after my research I have found there are a few different ideas many of which are Far easier ways to sanitize underwear and cloth menstrual pads following a yeast infection then boiling. I have revised that section to include these suggestions and properly cited them. Berlin Porcelain 2:25 PM December 19, 2006 CST

Am I the only one who irons my pads? Am I just a little obsessive/compulsive? -Drawn Some (talk) 05:58, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The main problem with this article is found in a myriad quotes in this talk page. Statements such as "In my searches across the web I have found" and "after my research I have found".

No. Original. Research. No "anecdotal evidence". Quote peer-reviewed journals or books by recognized authorities. Or quote nothing.

No weasel words. "Many women" do not a fact make.

No dismissing factual concerns of factual women because they are "seek(ing) to further ingrain the prejudice people have against menstruation in general and to remind people to stay with the herd". Encyclopedia articles aren't about how things should be, but about how they are. Be intellectually honest.

This could be a very interesting and informative article about an alternative many women don't even know exists. However, as it stands, it's just an infomercial, and risks being dismissed by readers because of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.22.175.73 (talk) 14:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because the history section of this article and

• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://labyrinth.net.au/~obsidian/clothpads/wiki.html
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.ccc.govt.nz/QuickAnswers/RecyclingRefuse/RecyclingMaterials/F884.asp
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.eya.ca/files/attachments/sp101booklet.pdf
• Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.thehia.org/hempfacts.htm

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The image Se Floral Pad.jpg seems to be an advertise for a clothing company. They removed the previous image (File:Clothpad.jpg) for no reason and added this one which displays the Se Floral's logo. Armin1718 (talk) 06:52, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]