Talk:Father absence

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{{WikiProject cum and relationships }} Ljccrim (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jackiechanyt (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have moved your draft off this talk page on to the draft page. That is where the draft belongs, and it then leaves this page free for discussion comments. It is important to preserve the edit history of Wikipedia articles for licensing reasons, and with at least three different editors making substantive edits to the page it may become impossible to separate the article history from the discussion when it comes time to move it to article space if I hadn't done it now. Thanks for creating this page and good luck with its progress. SpinningSpark 15:05, 25 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 October 2021 and 17 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): AvaClariceM.

Above undated message substituted from

OR95 (talk) 18:48, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, OR95, thank you for the comments. The article has now been linked to a few related sexuality pages, so it is not an orphan anymore. Thank you for changing the subheading from "total and specific difficulties" to "behavioural and mental health difficulties". We used the former as it has been coined by a few researchers. It can certainly be rather confusing for those who didn't get a chance to read the original papers. The latter (your suggested subheading) seems to be a good alternative around the confusion. Ljccrim (talk) 00:26, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To: OR95

I de-orphaned this page by linking it to the father complex page and also suggested this page other several other pages' talk pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackiechanyt (talk • contribs) 22:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi OR95 thank you for both making the very valid point of needing to change the "conclusion" title to "overall summary" and doing so, it is now much more reflective of the following content.Nisep (talk) 13:53, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article is very well informed and makes use a wide range of valued references to convey information. Particularly, the section on different theoretical approaches is very well organised and informative. The use of secondary sources such as a meta analysis is also very useful for this page, as the writes have avoided making any conclusive statements that could be misleading.

The section on gender differences could perhaps be explored a bit further to add more research findings rather than information based on only two pieces of research. The content here could also be expanded, perhaps saying to what extent these gender differences are seen and what type of behaviour is different amongst the different genders.

It may be useful to decrease the amount of information given about different sources/ journal articles that have been used - the number of participants in studies and the type of study (e.g. meta analysis) is interesting but for the purpose of this page, may be confusing the reader with too much detail. It may be useful to make the writing more concise and focus on findings.

As someone else has mentioned, links to other relevant pages need to be added to make sure that it is easier to find by people who are reading similar articles.

It may also be better to avoid using phrases such as 'on the other hand'. Whilst it shows that a balanced view is being presented, it makes the article sound like an essay. Navinadgandhi (talk) 01:52, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Update : I have copyedited this page and I have changed the first word in the second introductory paragraph to ‘Whilst’ to make it flow better and added a ’s’ at the end of the word ‘result’. I have also changed the title of the section: 'Mechanisms that may balance out the drawbacks to father absence’ to ‘Mechanisms to balance father absence’, as this is shorter and more concise. Navinadgandhi (talk) 02:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To: Navinadgandhi

I de-orphaned this page by linking it to the father complex page and also suggested this page other several other pages' talk pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackiechanyt (talk • contribs) 22:20, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Navinadgandhi for changing the title to "Mechanisms to balance father absence" Nisep (talk) 13:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review with some particular focus on the Gender difference section

Suggesting that evidence on this area is mixed is a good way of starting this section so that readers are aware of the limited amount of research available on this particular topic. It is also good that there are several links to other Wikipedia pages within this section so that associations can be found between father absence and other areas of sexuality. However, this section perhaps needs to be expanded to include gender differences in the reaching of puberty, as well as demonstrating whether there are any differences in behaviours. You go into good explanatory detail about one of the studies you mention, however you do not do the same for the second study. Additionally, since here you are talking about gender differences between cultures, if there is enough research to mention, it may also be appropriate to add a cultural differences section after this one. I will also reiterate what has been mentioned above in another peer review, that you use terms such as 'on the other hand' which implies you are providing an argument rather than simply relaying facts found by reputable sources. In general though, the article incorporates a good span of areas from within the topic of father absence. The sections are clear cut and cover a range of both approaches, from evolutionary to biological, as well as mechanisms used to help against the problem. Finally, it being so well organised, makes the article easy to follow.

Copy-edits made: added a few commas to make the sentences more coherent. Also changed a few words in one of the sentences in Overall summary, so that it made more sense and for conciseness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by L.Flank (talk • contribs) 14:26, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi L.Flank, thank you for the comments. Regarding your suggested expansion of the "gender difference" paragraph, "gender differences in the reaching of puberty" has already been explained in depth in the "menarche" paragraph. It is true that the second study has not been elaborated much in this paragraph, but the study in question has been discussed a number of times in previous paragraphs. Regrettably, I have not been able to find more direct comparison between the behaviours of sons and daughters; most studies have either focused on their differences in mortality rates or incidences of internalising and externalising behaviours. Also, apart from the Ethiopia study we cited, we have not found any study that has captured any substantial culture differences. Due to such a lack of research evidence, and the fact that cultural differences have been implicated in some studies on gender differences, we felt that we might not be in a position to talk more about the effects of cultural differences. Ljccrim (talk) 00:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi L.Flank, thank you for pointing out that "on the other hand" may be inappropriate in this article. May I know what you would suggest instead? Many thanks! Ljccrim (talk) 00:48, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The titles and subtitles used for this article is great, it covers a good range of topics and is quite informative. However i think it would be quite beneficial for the readers if the introduction or the "lead" to the article is clearer. For example, if someone visits this page wanting to know what father absence is about, it will be useful to have a clear introduction and explanation on what this article will focus on. Also i think a reference is needed for the first three lines of the article. Under the topic of Behavioural and Mental Health Difficulties a reference is needed for the last line; "The authors concluded that father absence seemed to be more of a cause than a consequence of child problem behaviour." It would also be better, if this sentence could be structured in a better way, maybe avoid stating "the authors concluded?" I think the sentence "The stress of father absence also prompts girls to develop a variety of internalising disorders, such as bulimia and depression." under the subtitle Menarche, would be better suited under the heading of Behavioural and Mental Health Difficulties. Furthermore, the phenomenon of "Cinderella Effect" could be addressed under the title "Presence of Step-father." I also think it would be quite interesting to have a topic on lesbian parents in this article and address the absence of a father in such a situation. The following references hopefully helps;

Golombok, S., Tasker, F., & Murray, C. (1997). Children Raised in Fatherless Families from Infancy: Family Relationships and the Socioemotional Development of Children of Lesbian and Single Heterosexual Mothers. Journal Of Child Psychology And Psychiatry, 38(7), 783-791.

MacCallum, F., & Golombok, S. (2004). Children raised in fatherless families from infancy: a follow-up of children of lesbian and single heterosexual mothers at early adolescence. Journal Of Child Psychology And Psychiatry, 45(8), 1407-1419.

Golombok, S., Perry, B., Burston, A., Murray, C., Mooney-Somers, J., Stevens, M., & Golding, J. (2003). Children with lesbian parents: A community study. Developmental Psychology, 39(1), 20-33.

Overall, a good and informative article. Psunds1993 (talk) 12:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Psunds1993, thank you for your comments and the suggested readings. A few references have been added to the gaps you suggested. Regarding the "lead" section, how would you amend it to give a clearer introduction and explanation on what the article will focus on? Many thanks! Ljccrim (talk) 00:34, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To: Psunds1993

You have mentioned that it would be better to move the sentence "The stress of father absence also prompts girls to develop a variety of internalising disorders, such as bulimia and depression." form under the subtitle menarche to under the heading of Behavioural and Mental Health Difficulties. However, the existence of this sentence is essential in the menarche paragraph to explain how early menarche is formed. Iinternalising disorders lead to excessive weight gain and lead to early menarche. This pathway is important to be mention in the paragraph of menarche. But thank you for pointing out. I will rewrite the sentences about this pathway and make it clearer for the reader to understand the relationship between internalising disorder and early menarche.Jackiechanyt (talk) 21:49, 22 March 2016 (UTC) Thank you for your suggested readings, I will read them and make changes if necessary.Jackiechanyt (talk) 22:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Psunds1993, thank you for all the research recommendations, it was definitely helpful for compiling the section regarding same sex households — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nisep (talk • contribs) 19:56, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is an excellent article and has covered many aspects regarding father absence. The specific examples are informative and supported by evidence sufficiently.

Few comments for improvements

1. There are a few grammatical mistakes, mainly on the prepositions used throughout the whole article.

2. A study (Belsky, 2007) under the Sexual behaviour paragraph is not cited in the references list.

3. Other studies that focus on another population or age group could be included in the Behavioural and mental health difficulties section to increase the credibility of the article.

Suggestions that you could add to that paragraph:

1. Sarkadi, A., Kristiansson, R., Oberklaid, F., & Bremberg, S. (2008). Fathers' involvement and children's developmental outcomes: A systematic review of longitudinal studies. Acta paediatrica, 97(2), 153-158.

2. East, L., Jackson, D., & O'Brien, L. (2006). Father absence and adolescent development: a review of the literature. Journal of Child Health Care, 10(4), 283-295.

3. Carlson, M. J. (2006). Family structure, father involvement, and adolescent behavioral outcomes. Journal of Marriage and Family, 68(1), 137-154.

Psunbf (talk) 01:24, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Psunbf, thank you for the comments. I will take a look at the your suggested papers and make changes to the "difficulties" section accordingly. Ljccrim (talk) 01:18, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To Psunbf: The study of Belsky(2007) under the Sexual behaviour paragraph is now cited in the references list. Thank you.Jackiechanyt (talk) 22:49, 22 March 2016 (UTC)Thank you for your suggested readings, I will read them and make changes if necessary.Jackiechanyt (talk) 22:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Psunbf, I have added a few sentences to the article with reference to your suggested papers. Ljccrim (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The article says "Studies have been made and a new variable has been found which is race. This has been a contributing factor to a child's development[11] "

The cited article does not implicate race as a contributing factor in the absenteeism of fathers, rather it suggests that more research should be done since Black and Latino families experience absenteeism more. This sentence is misleading and unclear. 98.4.191.96 (talk) 18:36, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see there is no discussion of the *reasons* for father absence. How often is it just due to a father abandoning his responsibilities and simple neglect, how much because the father is not allowed in the child's life, and if so for how often for which reasons - abuse or other differences which might not assign blame to him? This seems a pretty complex topic but across the article it seems to assume the former or ignore it entirely. 2603:7000:2F02:5E65:F070:8912:A431:505B (talk) 05:09, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]