Talk:Kavango people
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disambiguation/incoming links notice
the large number of incoming links here are significant as to what is the primary topic of "
PRIMARYTOPIC per view stats
- "Kavango people" has been viewed 275 times this month;
- "Kavango people" has been viewed 1103 times in the last 90 days.
- Kavango_–_Southwest_Bantu_languages has been viewed 85 times this month], and
- The Kavango River article has been viewed 133 times this month, and
- the Kavango Region article has been viewed 456 times this month, and
- 1843 times in the last 90 days. NB the Kavango Region no longer exists, it was broken into two:
- Kavango West has been viewed [http://stats.grok.se/en/201405/Kavango%20West 144 times this month, while
- 622 times in the last 90 days
- Kavango East has been viewed 132 times this month and
- [http://stats.grok.se/en/latest90/Kavango%20East 621 times in the last 90 days.
An analysis of the incoming links may show contexts re the regions of the rivers, but the standalone link in most cases is, as elsewhere, most likely to do with the people whom the regions and the language group are named for. On that note, people looking up the standalone name Kavango did so 464 times this month so far, and 1477 times in the last 90 days. The former name of the Kavango Region, Okavango, likewise got more views than the language article did, at 200 times this month and 984 times in the last 90 days.Skookum1 (talk) 06:12, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Skookum1, thanks for your disambiguation edits. You sound like you expect resistance---I'm not sure from whom. Am I getting you right that you want to move Kavango and/or Okavango to their respective (disambiguation) titles, and then redirect the two articles to the article that had most views?
- I have no horse in this race. I have no idea whether readers would rather look for the river or for the people or for the language or for the administrative unit. I just would like to ask that the main article neither be Okavango Region, as both administrative units no longer exist, and as the chance that a reader might look for a historic administrative unit is IMHO rather slim. --Pgallert (talk) 15:56, 26 May 2014 (UTC)]
- Ah, I think I see what the issue is. Kwamikagami has reverted one of your edits; I'm afraid that they were right with this one: There is no language called "Kavango". The Kavango – Southwest Bantu languages are a term invented in the 2000s, nobody local calls any language there "Kavango". This does not look like resistance towards appropriate page titles to me---however, I don't how anybody will determine what the main target of people is that enter 'Kavango'. I would say it is after all, all named after the river, but that's just me. --Pgallert (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- The proper way to determine Primary Topic is to ask Skookum what the primary topic is. But in this case I think you're right: They're all named after the Kavango River.
- Also, a link to the rd ]
- You both seem to know a lot about DAB policies; I cannot argue with you on that level. But I think the statement Kavango languages are spoken by Kavango people, as present now on the page Kavango, is incorrect:
- It is incorrect to say that Every person belonging to the Kavango language.
- It is also incorrect to say that Every speaker of a language classified as Kavango language is a member of a tribe that belongs to the Kavango people, as the latter is restricted to the Namibian side of the Kavango.
- It is incorrect to say that Every person belonging to the
- So all we have is that some Kavango speakers are Kavango people, and some Kavango people are Kavango speakers, with the additional caveat that "Kavango speakers" is a term that's not in common use but highly specific to language classifications by scientists. Cheers, Pgallert (talk) 07:31, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
- @Pgallert: Good point. I'd forgotten about the Mbukushu. I'll adjust the wording. A question about your other point, though: At least the Mbukushu, Dciriku, and Kwangali live on both sides of the river. How can they be ethnically Kavango on one side, and not on the other? What about the Dciriku living in Botswana? — kwami (talk) 01:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- I think that's simply a question of naming. The Angolan name of the river is Cubango, and their colonial language is Portuguese, so I could imagine they give a different name to Kavango people. From the obvious similarities in the words Gciriku/Dciriku it might be the same tribe, too. But that's speculation, really. --Pgallert (talk) 07:21, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- @Pgallert: Good point. I'd forgotten about the Mbukushu. I'll adjust the wording. A question about your other point, though: At least the Mbukushu, Dciriku, and Kwangali live on both sides of the river. How can they be ethnically Kavango on one side, and not on the other? What about the Dciriku living in Botswana? — kwami (talk) 01:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- I agree that wording was redundant and misleading, but far more misleading was the dab-maker's claim that a "Kavango language" exists, or the premise that a redirect from that to the Halkomelem people exist, based similarly on "linguistics shorthand" references in certain sources...which serves to underline that it is generous to call linguists "scientists", which they are not, as evidence and fact mean little in their terminology and habits, just as we are seeing here.Skookum1 (talk) 07:34, 29 May 2014 (UTC)]
- Well, I already devoted one 1000+ characters post above to argue that one particular line in one particular dab page is incorrect. I'll certainly not start an edit war over this, and there might be corners of this encyclopedia that more desperately need my help. I further think that en-dashes and title spaces could be discussed elsewhere, as could patronising edit summaries, linguistics as a discipline, or the existence of Halkomelem. In short, what is your suggestion? --Pgallert (talk) 15:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
- You both seem to know a lot about DAB policies; I cannot argue with you on that level. But I think the statement
- Ah, I think I see what the issue is. Kwamikagami has reverted one of your edits; I'm afraid that they were right with this one: There is no language called "Kavango". The Kavango – Southwest Bantu languages are a term invented in the 2000s, nobody local calls any language there "Kavango". This does not look like resistance towards appropriate page titles to me---however, I don't how anybody will determine what the main target of people is that enter 'Kavango'. I would say it is after all, all named after the river, but that's just me. --Pgallert (talk) 16:10, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The typically snide commentary from Kwami notwithstanding, determination of the PRIMARYTOPIC not being something he likes to address per his claim that languages are equally primary topics to people, I agree with the point that the Kavango Region/Okavango Region, being defunct, is not a valid PRIMARYTOPIC; and if you read that guideline carefully, and
NB A large series of TWODABS pages created from redirects-to-primary topic have been placed with {{
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