Talk:List of best-selling music artists/Archive 27

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Harout, perhaps i was mention them before but i'm apologize to mention them again. They started their career at 1962 and their certification units nearly reach 28m, and i think is quite reliable to bring them again to the list and support 100m-records claim from The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/9600643/Brian-Wilson-blindsided-by-Beach-Boys-sacking.html) What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:29, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

The same here, the 100 million is way inflated for 28.2 million in certified sales. We also have other reliable sources claiming more realistic figures for them, 65 million.--Harout72 (talk) 06:24, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but now with the new rule, they no longer placed in this list. I just try to bring them back again, if they deserve to get that. And i think, yes they deserve. But, once again Harout. You are the main editor in this list and the most powerful to make a decision, then i need your advice.Politsi (talk) 06:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

No artist with inflated sales figures deserves to be on the list. If there are lower claimed figures out there which are closer to artists' available certified sales, then we'll use those (if that figure is 75 million or higher). Lower figures than 75 million, will naturally be left out.--Harout72 (talk) 16:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

100 million doesn't sound inflated when you take into account values of 350 million have also been reported by both the Times and the Daily Mail.^[1] The band's had over thirty-six US Top-40 chart placements with only the units of "Good Vibrations" and "Kokomo" being included in the tally. Add in the fact that eight of their most commercially successful albums have not been re-audited by the RIAA for over 45 years and that between 1963 and 1973 they had 14 top-40 albums in the UK when officially ratified awards have only existed after 1973 and it starts to become apparent that the 28.2 million and even the 65 million figure is hugely undershot. They meet the 20% of certifiable sales threshold set for artists of their era and for that reason, I strongly believe they should be included in the 100-119 million category.Jamekae (talk) 05:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I also did some scouting and have discovered Rolling Stone's "well over" 65 million claim has been stagnant on that page since at least February 20, 2004. Since then the band have accumulated four platinum certifications and have put out a host of other releases. Jamekae (talk) 05:57, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Platinum-award-levels can be very low in some music markets.

• In the U.S., in 2012, their Sounds of Summer has been certified 3x Platinum (previously certified 2x Platinum in 2005). They also have one Gold video certified in 2008 for 50,000 units.
• In the U.K., in 2005, their The Very Best of The Beach Boys has been certified Platinum for 300,000 units (previously in 2001, Gold 100,000 units), and The Platinum Collection has received silver for 60,000 units there.
• In Canada, in 2006, their Sounds of Summer has received Platinum for 100,000 units (previously in 2003, Gold 50,000 units).
• In Australia, in 2009, Sounds of Summer has Gone Platinum for 70,000 units.
• In Germany, in 2009, their 20 Golden Greats has gone Gold for 250,000 units.

I'm counting 3,680,000 certified units after 2004. What are the names of their most commercially successful eight albums which you say have not been certified? Also, do you have sales figures for those very albums published by reliable sources? In the U.K., The Beach Boys have had eight top-5 albums before 1973 which haven't been certified by the BPI. Would you happen to have sales figures for those albums that have sold under 2 million units? Or their seven top-5 singles released before 1973 that have sold under 1 million units but haven't been certified by the BPI?--Harout72 (talk) 06:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The RIAA is down for me at the moment, but I don't think your statement that they haven't had anything certified in the US since 2003 is correct. There was a well-publicised reunion in 2006 where they were presented with a 2x platinum award for Sounds of Summer. Since then, I believe it has been awarded 3x platinum. Also, the only significant releases that have not been audited at all would be Beach Boys Party! which reached number 6 in the US and stayed on the charts for 24 weeks, and Surfin' Safari, these would likely be gold records by now. Albums like Today! and Surfin' U.S.A. are still solid sellers that have seen multiple reissues yet haven't been re-audited since a year or so after their initial release. Surfin' U.S.A. to Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) in particular are albums that would likely be platinum records in the US today.

As for the sales figures of those UK albums and singles, I'm unfortunately unsure of their exact figures, though I'll continue to scout for sources. It's frustrating, because for a band that's primarily singles focussed, there's next to no data telling us just how successful they were on a per-unit basis. "Sloop John B" charted at number one in 9 countries and broke the top-5 in a few more and yet it's not represented at all in determining the 28.2 million units figure - and that's just one of many international number one songs that don't have any solid data! It's for reasons like these that the 65 million figure sounds terribly undershot and I think Rolling Stone knows it too, the "way over" prefix to the sales figure seems to suggest even they think it's an anaemic estimation.

I'll continue looking for more reliable sources to back up my claims, here are a few tidbits I've gathered when searching for data on song and album sales:

• That's Why God Made the Radio sold 61k in the US in its first week.
• Little Saint Nick has had digital downloads of 254k.
• Sloop John B sold 500k units in the US in its first two weeks of release.^[2]
• The Warmth of the Sun sold 14k copies in the US in its first week

Regards, Jamekae (talk) 09:26, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, the RIAA site seemed to be working only partially for me yesterday as it brought up results of up to Made in the USA (certified in 2003), but my file is up to date, just didn't have a year on my file to go by. I corrected the total certified units above since 2004. I understand that a few millions of units may need to be re-certified as some of their albums may have reached either Gold status or Platinum or muli-Platinum by now. My main confusion is why there is such a huge gap between their available certified sales (28 million) and the so called 100 million units. I mean how could some 70 million units have gone uncertified? The U.K. could not have generated some 20+ million units with those albums/singles that have gone uncertified, and frankly they've never been that big in other markets including Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Sweden. Anyways, if you could provide some more actual sales figures (total in millions please, not in thousands), we could maybe put them up on the list with 100 million.--Harout72 (talk) 16:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

They were very popular internationally on a singles level, especially during 1965-1970. Here's a list of the thirty-nine international top 10 singles they have achieved.

If you team the albums that have failed to be re-audited since 1966, the UK/international album sales from prior to 1973 and all of these international hit singles, that confusion you face because of the difference between 28.2 million units and 100 million units should hopefully dissipate. Regards, Jamekae (talk) 20:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

No sales figures? I'm unable to verify most of the peaks as only Germany, the U.K. and Holland provide peaks dating back to 1960s, and early 1970s. Where are you getting them? I would, however, try to concentrate on the Top-5 positions, when looking at small and medium sized music markets. Because a few Top-10 positions from small music markets like

New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium aren't going to fill the missing 70 million of uncertified units. Similarly, some Top-10 chart peaks from medium sized music markets like Canada, Australia, Italy, Holland also can't translate into tens of millions units, especially back in the '60s, '70s. Let me spend some time studying and verifying the Top-5 peaks, and in the meantime if you could try and locate some sales figure in the Billboard magazine's earlier issues, it'd be great.--Harout72 (talk

) 22:21, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

http://www.aria.com.au/pages/httpwww.aria.com.aupageshttpwww.aria.com.aupageshttpwww.aria.com.auALBUMaccreds2011.htm

• Argentina's "Summer Dreams" platinum certification is worth 200 thousand units as it is a compilation. That's (+ 140 thousand units)

http://web.archive.org/web/20110820130534/http://www.capif.org.ar/Default.asp?PerDesde_MM=0&PerDesde_AA=0&PerHasta_MM=0&PerHasta_AA=0&interprete=&album=&LanDesde_MM=1&LanDesde_AA=1980&LanHasta_MM=12&LanHasta_AA=2010&Galardon=O&Tipo=1&ACCION2=+Buscar+&ACCION=Buscar&CO=5&CODOP=ESOP

• California Gold was certified gold in Sweden (+ 20 thousand units).

http://web.archive.org/web/20120125103125/http://www.ifpi.se/wp/wp-content/uploads/guld-platina-1987-1998.pdf

So that's 230 thousand additional certified units. 210 thousand of which were credited after 2004. In conjunction with the miscellaneous sales data I posted about above, that puts the Beach Boys' traceable sales figure at 29.5mil.

As for the table data above, information was supplied by these sites (and their sister sites): http://www.ultratop.be/fr/, http://www.ultratop.be/nl/, http://norwegiancharts.com/; David Kent's coverage of the Australian chart (though it does admit chart positions prior to 1970 are spotty) and the http://www.mountvernonandfairway.de/ website (I'm currently in the process of trying to deconstruct where they got their information from to make for a more reliable source). Some of the data differs depending on which chart the source decides to follow, as you probably are aware, things were a little messier back in the 1960s and there were often multiple charts offering different data unfortunately.

Best regards, Jamekae (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

• For Australia: thanks for that. I must have updated the number of the Platinum-awards, but failed to update the figure.
• For Argentina: CAPIF's levels for compilation albums, Gold=100,000 units and Platinum=200,000 units which were suppressed after 2001, were for those compilations that included various artists. Regular compilation albums such as The Beach Boys' Summer Dreams were treated as regular albums. See this Billboard article from 1996, it says Platinum albums are awarded for sales of 60,000 units and at the top of the next column, the Greatest Hits album by Sumo is listed, representing sales of 60,000 units.
• For Sweden: The Gold certification for California Gold posted in 1993 represents 50,000 units (see their earlier certification-levels here).
• Chart-peaks: I can't verify Sweden's peaks through here, or New Zealand's peaks

I found one sales figure for the U.K., the album Best of The Beach Boys only a few months after its release date has sold 100,000 units and has spent 142 weeks on the chart there. I also, found a Billboard article from 1982 stating that Beach Boys Greatest Hits has sold 245,000 units in Australia. Couldn't figure out if they're referring to 1970 Greatest Hits. I believe there is enough evidence to assume that The Beach Boys may have sold 15-20 million units in the 1960s and early 1970s outside of the U.S. all of which clearly have gone uncertified. In my opinion, the 100 million is inflated by good 20-25 million units. But I'm going to put them on the list anyway with your source.

Thanks for patiently engaging in this discussion.--Harout72 (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I've seen that The Beach Boys has been placed on the list, but looks like not properly. I will fix it. Politsi (talk) 04:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

David Bowie is missing from the list, his Wikipedia entry states 140m album sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.216.110.172 (talk) 04:57, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, if 140m-albums still can not reach the minimum requirement of the list. How about 130m-records/albums claim by The Sun (United Kingdom)? (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4732139/david-bowie-to-release-first-single-in-a-decade.html) and actually how many of his certification sales so far, is it quite enough to support the 130m-claim? and for your record, most of news service still count him with 140m-albums claim.

Harout, i need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh wait, i have found this source from CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/22/showbiz/uk-david-bowie-exhibition) claiming 130m-records of him, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Bowie can only be listed with 113 million records as his available certified sales are only 22.6 million units.--Harout72 (talk) 05:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, need your advice. As i remember, i never mention them before and i dont know who they are but Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/video-music-legend-merrill-osmond-visits-leeds-1-4882163) claim them have sold 100m-records, is this reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 05:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

They don't seem to have enough certified sales, just 3 million certified singles, and 2.5 million certified albums.--Harout72 (talk) 02:13, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

On the Wikipedia page of Beyoncé is written that she has sold 118 million records, and on the page of best sold digital song-artists Beyoncé has sold 33 million records, plus her non digital releases (i don't know the number, but Crazy In Love sold 8 million) and her album sales (27.5 million). The digital sales + the album sales + Crazy In Love = 68.5 million. Then you need to add the non-digital singles - 8 million. I'm pretty sure the number is above 75 million. Also the "Pepsi and Beyonce partner sheet" says that she sold over a 100 million records WW (http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/origin/multivu_archive/PRNA/ENR/FX-MM26479-20121210-PEPSI_BEYONCE_FACT_SHEET.pdf). So could somebody change that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartRoggen (talk • contribs) 17:06, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Please see the requirements for certified sales posted within the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page.--Harout72 (talk) 18:34, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

It states Beyonce's certified units are 50.6, for her 100 million claim, which is correct, but she should be lower in the 100 million section as her certified units are far below artists she is above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 14:17, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

250 million is a bit inflated don't you think? Seriously I have nothing against them, it's just one member challenged me to find a more reputable claimed sales figures for this group claiming 200 million records sold.

Bloomberg and Richmond Times Dispatch reported that they have sold 250 million records. But EMI Music and Universal Music has said that they have sold over 200 million records. These two which I believe is more credible than the inflated numbers of Bloomberg and Times Dispatch. Mazic (talk) 13:59, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

And also there had been a lot of "credible" news sites claiming the band has sold over 250 million albums(As said in their lead page). (BBC, Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc) Isn't there a consensus or should a group of people here be alarmed with these inflation especially with artists in the 150 or more million records sold? Mazic (talk) 14:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One of our sources on the list supports 200 million records. We don't use claims by Records companies, just news services. 250 million records (albums, singles, videos) is tolerable as their available certified are based on Albums (for the big part), singles, videos, but 250 million albums? Now that is inflated outrageously.--Harout72 (talk) 16:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Since you're the one who's the most active here, I suggest you check and verify each artists lead page because almost all news site checks wikipedia for fact checking like for example with their worldwide record sales. There isn't really a major site where these editors can go to see how much they really sold. I'm a bit skeptical about 250 million records. Part of it is because they, as an old act is hugely an album seller. Their total certified claims are about 111 million albums, singles and videos and most of it are albums. And let's say we'll be generous that they sold around at least 150 million to 175 million albums max worldwide. I don't think they are able to sell 75 million singles and videos worldwide since singles and videos are not the bread and butter at that time compared now. 200 million records is perfectly reasonable and to avoid any inflations I think we should stick to 200 million records and remove the 250 million. The two sites claiming they have sold 250 million records isn't credible enough compared to the 200 million records sites. Mazic (talk) 16:07, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

The 200 million records is claimed by

Wanganui Chronicle, and one of the 250 million claims is by Richmond Times-Dispatch, the latter is similarly credible. What other reliable news services claim 200 million records, not albums? I see lot of them use the term albums including The Guardian, CNS News, BBC, The Wall Street Journal. We'd need more of the 200 million records, and they should be relatively new.--Harout72 (talk

) 17:06, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

How can we even claim BBC, Guardian, CBS, etc. when I'm pretty sure 99.99% of them only looked at one website to check their sales and it's wikipedia. When 200 million albums is heavily mistaken as records. (The same can be said to a lot of artists here, for example Celine Dion, it states she has sold 200 million albums) the only thing that is getting in this project's way is the "biasness" of the editors, which I for one is a member too. The 250 million records as I said is inflated and you know that. 200 million records is the right amount. I've read a lot of music forums and Pink Floyd's hard sales is between 160-175 million records, 200 million records is even a bit generous considering older acts doesn't have strong single sales to back up their estimations. Mazic (talk) 19:05, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Here's more 200 million record sales sources I have found: Reuters(2013), Yahoo Music (2011),Yahoo Finance (2013), MSN (2011), PR News Wire (2011),Crave, It's interesting that you said labels shouldn't be taken as sources cause they inflate their sales, but how could Times Dispatch and Bloomberg claim 250 million when they are not even remotely related to the music industry let alone a label which has access to their sales data. And EMI&UMG states 200 million records, and it is believed that labels often inflate the numbers of their artists but some sites has even more of the number of the label's estimated figures in which in this case Bloomberg and Times Dispatch's claim of 250 million records. Let's pretend CNN, BBC, Daily Mail, etc's claim of 250 million album sold don't exist. It's also interesting to point out that a more reputable source like MTV has the same info as their lead page in wikipedia. And this can be found on many news site. Even their official fan site(published in 2011, that's just two years ago) news stated that they sold 200 million records. Read the title (Major Pink Floyd Release Campaign, 'Why Pink Floyd?') It's right that we should remove the 250 million records sold cause there are a lot of current sources and a more reputable one that states it sold 200 million records sold. Mazic (talk) 19:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

You're taking your anger on me because news services claim 200 million albums? I'm working everyday towards making this list look as free of inflated claims as I possibly can. In order not to attract unnecessarily long and unproductive disputes on this talk-page, my actions have to be calculated. In this case, I need to have two relatively new claims for 200 million records, so I can remove the 250 million claims. And most news agencies seem to claim either 200 million albums or 250 million records.

Now your sources above. The content of Reuters is fed by

The Los Angeles Times,The New York Times, The Telegraph etc.etc.--Harout72 (talk

) 21:18, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with everything you said although "What's considered a News agency is

Led Zepellin's lead page and it should be modeled like this because it was not biased and was very clear that it said "various sources estimate the group's sales at more than 200 or even 300 million albums worldwide." Mazic (talk

) 07:07, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, the source for 250m-records of this band from Bloomberg and Times Dispatch looks like old (from 2007) and what do you think about this two sources (http://syvnews.com/entertainment/music/tribute-band-to-play-pink-floyd-hits-at-casino/article_aa19613a-47de-11e2-969b-001a4bcf887a.html) and (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242178/Pink-Floyds-lead-singer-Chris-Dennis-said-regret-leaving-band-RAF-posting.html). Both of this 2012 source, claim the band have sold 250m-records.

And Mazic, i think just let the band with their 250m-records claim, they deserve to get that i think Politsi (talk) 10:28, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not a matter if you think they deserve it or not, heck I even think they deserve to sell those millions of records cause I do think they are that influential. With that said, we have to distinguish facts from fan fictions. And the 250 million records claim is factually inflated. But if you keep on clinging to 250 million records, that's fine with me just as long as it's not 250 million albums! Regards, Mazic (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Take it easy please, we don't have to kill someone to make this list reliable. I agree with you that we should concern with the most actual claim sales rather than fan fictions like you said above, but the matter is we only have one source for 200m-records claim and if you see the year when they started their record and their grand total certification sales. 250m-records is absolutely reliable. And please do not talk too much in here if you don't bring something good for this list. But personally i'm happy with it, because so far only me and Harout are really active in this talk page. Politsi (talk) 01:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout (and perhaps another editor). I need your opinion about this. So far, we include the source from Forbes to support the claim sales of those artist in this list (such as Prince and Tupac Shakur) and we consider Forbes as a reliable source.

But, i'm shock reading this article, written by Will Burns from Forbes regarding with Beatles's The Sgt. Pepper albums, in that article it is said:

"the success of Sgt. Pepper (has sold over 32 million copies, according to Wikipedia)". (http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2012/02/02/the-sgt-pepper-brand-liberated-the-beatles-does-your-brand-liberate-you/)

What kind of news reporter writing like this? according to Wikipedia?. Harout, Do we need to trust this source? how can we use them to support the claim figures on this list, if they just get the source from Wikipedia?

I think we need to kick out and not using a source from Forbes, because likely they just write anything without checking the fact and just get the source according to Wikipedia.

Harout, what do you think ? thanks Politsi (talk) 06:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh wow, that is bad journalistic work. We should definitely try to avoid using Forbes in the future.--Harout72 (talk) 15:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i will try to replace the claim figure which is provide by Forbes in this list with a better source. As i remember. Whitney Houston, Prince, and Tupac Shakur are using the source from Forbes. I will replace it soon.

And believe me, despite only me and you which looks so active in this list, but i believe all news reporter around the world and all artist are keep an eye on this list. Politsi (talk) 01:46, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, I need your advice about this most famous romantic pianist of all time. How much exactly his certification sales? because The Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/pianos-prince-of-romance-returns-to-lift-hearts-20130203-2dsi5.html) claim him to have sold 85m-records. is this reliable? thanks Politsi (talk) 02:00, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

He doesn't have enough certified sales. He has 1.5 million from France, 1,360,000 units from the UK, 100,000 units from Canada, 35,000 units from Australia and 100,000 units from Brazil, total of almost 3.1 million certified units. He needs 19.2 million certified units as he's begun charting in France in 1977.--Harout72 (talk) 02:25, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Cher's Swiss certifications are not 270k but 295k, you must have counted the greatest hits albums as one even though they are two different compilations:

2001 Living Proof Album WEA/Warner Gold 20k
1999 The Greatest Hits Album WEA/Warner Platin 50k
1999 Believe Album WEA/Warner Doppel-Platin 100k
1998 Believe Single WFA/Warner Platin 50k
1992 Cher's Greatest Hits Album Geffen/BMG Gold 25k
1991 Love Hurts Album Geffen/BMG/MV Platin 50k

http://hitparade.ch/search_certifications.asp?search=Cher

Thank you!Alfiebot (talk) 02:47, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes I have counted "Cher's Greatest Hits" (1992) and "Greatest Hits" (1999) as one. Thanks for correcting it. But in the future, please include your detailed explanation on this talk page before making changes, because your brief explanation in the edit summary doesn't quite point out what could have been missed.--Harout72 (talk) 01:07, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, no problem:). I also wanted to appoint that Cher's Argentine certifications should be 160k not 106k, as The Greatest hits '99 is Gold and compilation albums need to sell 100k units to be certified Gold according to CAPIF rules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Chamber_of_Phonograms_and_Videograms_Producers so a gold compilation and a platinum regular album equals 160k. Thanks!
Alfiebot (talk) 07:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Let me first put up below what I have for CAPIF:

• The Greatest Hits (Gold=30,000 units)
• Believe (Platinum=60,000 units)
• Live in Concert DVD (2x Platinum=16,000)

My total is 106,000 units. CAPIF's levels for compilation albums, which before January 1, 2001 was Gold=100,000 units and Platinum=200,000 units and suppressed after that date, was for those compilations that included various artists. In other words, regular compilation albums such as Cher's Greatest Hits are treated as a regular album. See this Billboard article from 1996, it says Platinum albums are awarded for sales of 60,000 units and at the top of the next column, the Greatest Hits album by Sumo is listed, representing sales of 60,000 units. Here is my list of Cher's available detailed certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 17:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, and thanks a lot for the list with all the available certifications!
The only ones that are missing there to my knowledge are the New Zealand ones:
Heart of Stone(Platinum)
Love Hurts(Platinum)
Cher's Greatest Hits 1965-1992(4x Platinum)
Shoop Shoop Song (Gold)
which bring Cher's certified sales there to 150k, but I know that they cannot be referenced from an online source yet.
Also, on your list you're missing a Silver certification for "Love Can Build a Bridge" single in the UK, which adds to 5.9 mill cert units, so please check the BPI database to confirm the update. Thank you again.
Alfiebot (talk) 21:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, the reason why I haven't included "Love Can Build a Bridge" is because it's performed by four artists. We only include the certified units of those albums/singles/videos which are based on solo performances or duo performances.--Harout72 (talk) 21:06, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hmm that doesn't seem quite logical if the certification is not listed as Various Artist but states the names of each artist.
Anyway, does that mean that i.e for the Lady Marmelade cover non of the girls (Pink, Lil Kim, etc) would get the credit for the sales of that single?
Alfiebot (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I think it is logical. Why should a Platinum certification (for example) go to all four artists, when each one has a very small part in it? It would be the same with the single "Lady Marmelade", yes.--Harout72 (talk) 21:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the clarification again. Anyway, I have stumbled upon a UKMIX forum thread www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27310&p=2376472&hilit=Cher#p2376472 where a person who possesses the "Sólo éxitos: año a año, 1959–2002 (1st ed.). Spain: Fundación Autor-SGAE.

Yes, we'd need a scan that captures not only the certifications, but also the part of the page that shows that it's from that reliable book for Spanish charts.--Harout72 (talk) 04:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

would be cool if you Harout72 bought the book as you're such an expert, it's only 30$ and you could include the sales to all the artists... not just this book, all the available chart books too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.230.89.151 (talk) 17:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that Cher certifications list Harout, one correction though, the IFPI Certified Sales are not 5 but 6 mill, the GH 99 was 2xPlatinum... --Uncleangelo (talk) 13:46, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

added additional 100k for Cher's The Greatest Hits and 100k for Living Proof, along with 400k for Believe that's 600k in Spain. Here are the scans with Cher's chart records in Spain from the "Sólo éxitos. Año a año. 1959-2002" book http://www.mediafire.com/view/?s5qkldd20v3ifkt the pages show data for various artists as well, so if it's of anyone's interest feel free to use it for referencing. thank you. Uncleangelo (talk) 19:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Your file does support Platinum (**) for The Greatest Hits on page 4, but on page 5, I see only Gold (*) certification for Living Proof. I'm not sure where you see the Platinum for Living Proof.--Harout72 (talk) 21:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

sorry for that. here's the file with the page from its second week on the charts showing its Platinum status http://www.mediafire.com/view/?zk8m9cakf4z2t6y also the last page shows all the Platinum and Multi-Platinum albums certified in 2001. thanks for pointing it out! Uncleangelo (talk) 01:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I see. I'm not sure if you have this book in your possession, but if you do, I'm just curios, how many pages of certifications does that book have. I'm referring to the pages that contain strictly certifications (the page where the last column says Certificados). --Harout72 (talk) 23:16, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

lots of pages for albums from the 1980s and onwards. I don't have it in my possession, only pages for Cher and a few artists which are not on this list. One person was nice and patient enough to write the full list here www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27310&start=300 though it can't be used as a source... Uncleangelo (talk) 01:55, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Usually ABBA are said to have sold more than 300 million records, with the number of 360 million being especially popular (this number has also been acknowledged by their record company Universal Music way back in 2004). There are many sources that prov that, like http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-04-07/abba-have-sold-over-360-million-albums-file-photo/1000810, http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/abba/bio/, http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/349023/World-s-Greatest-Albums-ABBA-The-Gold-Singles/overview, http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/508315/unreleased-abba-song-finally-hitting-stores... All of them feature figues between 300 and 400 million!
The two sources already provided in the article that state 100 million apparently only count the pre-1982 singles, so this is certainly not correct! Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list! HarrySwed (talk) 09:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

No wonder you saying like that, you are a newbie in here. Listen kid, this list has been build to explain to the worldwide reader the true and the real from the claim sales figure of those famous artist. Have you seen ABBA certification sales? That group started their career only since 1972 and their certification sales only around 55m. Therefore 100m-200m records is more logical rather than 300m-400m shit claim from their fans published. I'm the one who put the 100m-claim for ABBA in this list and that's reliable. If you don't accept it, you can ask the main expert editor in this list (Harout) and if still not enough for you. get out from here. thanks Politsi (talk) 10:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow, look at you, what a nicely written reply to my simple and polite question. You obviously seem to have some serious problems, don't you? I'm sorry for that. Anyhow, these certified sales figures the list provides obviously are just a small fraction of the real figures. Looking at The Beatles is a good indication, as those numbers would indicate sales of barely more than 40 millions outside the US, which is just ridiculous. But okay, you think that using wrong sources to compile this list makes it reliable? You think that it is your right to say which sources are true and reliable and which are not? On Wikipedia? Are you serious? And how on earth would anybody think that 100 million is reliable? ABBA Gold is close to reaching 30 million units sold, which would leave sales of 70 million for each and every other ABBA record for 41 years. If you know that little about ABBA you obviously need another hobby other than this list. HarrySwed (talk) 11:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh Harout. Do we need to explain about this list to this kid?.

Problems? what is that? Could be eaten?. Listen kid, your statement above is really clear to us that you are just a naive ABBA fans, who wanted their idols being better and respected anywhere BUT here. You obviously need another thing rather than just Dancing Queen, Waterloo, Waterlaa, Whatever. But could you please respect us, who was dedicated time and work for this list? Politsi (talk) 12:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Your statements ooze with disrespect, which makes it actually impossible for me to either respect you or the "work" you have done. If you need a place to publish all the work that you regard as correct and where you don't have to deal with other views and critique, I'd say you create your own website. Wikipedia is certainly not the place for such behaviour! It's a place where people are supposed to work together. Why work here if you aren't able to take criticism? I've provided sources and given explanations that make sense and are comprehensible. You on the other hand are not able to provide either of them. And if that wasn't enough, you aren't even capable of engaging in a normal discussion, let alone talking to me in a normal way. Really? Tells a lot about you and your "skills"...HarrySwed (talk) 12:59, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Why work here if you aren't able to take criticism? I've provided sources and given explanations that make sense and are comprehensible

Listen Kid, you started your discussion with this sign ! and you started your discussion with this word The two sources already provided in the article that state 100 million apparently only count the pre-1982 singles, so this is certainly not correct Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list!. Is this you said as Discussion?. That word and that sign is not acceptable If you wanted to started and discuss about artist in this list and if you have some idea and a good source to support this list you can started the discussion with asking and not put a sign like this !. This will raise anger from the other editor who has been dedicated their time to make this list became one of the most prestigious list in Wikipedia.

Now, i suggest you to read the rule of the article before you started some discussion, we welcome to all newbie. But, we are not welcome with this ! and this not correct . (Who are you?, saying like that). Politsi (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Politsi, your comments here are unacceptable. Please assume good faith and don't bite the newbies. We were all new here once and reactions like this don't do anything to foster a collegial atmosphere here.--ukexpat (talk) 13:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Ukexpat, thanks for remind me. But i dont accept a newbie, who just read this list and with vanity started the discussion with this ! and saying this so this is certainly not correct! Therefore ABBA should rank much higher in this list!. Politsi (talk) 01:45, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

To user HarrySwed: This list uses those claimed figures which are closest to artists' available certified sales. This is stated at the end of the lead. Besides having claims of 100 million records, we have 200 million claims as well. Also, note that we have required percentage amounts for certified sales which you can find within the second yellow box from the top on this talk-page. So, for a claims as high as 300 million records, ABBA would need 60 million in certified sales. ABBA's available certified sales, however, are 54.9 million.--Harout72 (talk) 15:32, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your response! Let me just tell you that I really respect the work you have done here by putting this list together (assuming that you did the main job). Having done some research myself on different matters, charts included, I know how much work this can be. I also understand how insistent you seem to be concerning those certified sales and how important they are for your calculations. However, let me just tell you that, at least in my opinion, these figueres only portray a very small part of reality. Being used to work with all kinds of sources as part of my university studies I have to tell you that on the subject of claimed figures, your choice of sources is highly questionable. I don't know if you are responsible for picking out sources that are far beneath the usual official sales number or if this is the work of your little companion. In my initial comment I have provided various sources, like Billboard, that state other numbers. Also the record company itself and experts on that subject (probably more into the subject of ABBA than you or "Politsi" - no offence) provide totally different numbers than you do. Now you might counter like your little adjunct and calling this the talking of "naive ABBA fans, who wanted their idols being better and respected anywhere". But please, take into consideration that I'm not 12. I don't play "my favourite artist is the best" games. All I want is to make sure that this really informative list you have put together can be called just that - informative. Unfortunately the behaviour of people like "Politsi" can't be called expedient in this regard, as it portrays disrespect towards other users, towards the artists you are dealing with and also disprespect towards normal (academic) conventians what the usage of sources is concerned. Although this discussion will unfortuantely amount to nothing, I just want to make sure that you can add me to the, judging by all those previous discussions on all kinds of artists not too small, list of people who are at least a bit sceptical about this list. HarrySwed (talk) 19:48, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Why would one believe that the available certified sales for ABBA portray a very small part of their actual sales? Why would one think that ABBA has really sold 300 million or more records? The reason I'm asking this is because I've been analyzing claimed sales published by news services for years now, and it seems that news services would publish just about any sales claims given to them by artists' record companies. The intention of the latter is simply attracting more buyers, boosting sales regardless of what marketing strategy they use. Record companies have been inflating their artists' true sales figures for as long as the music industry has existed. On the other hand, when available certified sales are brought in, to analyze sales figures, one immediately can tell that the actual sales of an artist in question is not even half as much as claimed by sources (in most cases). Yes, some records (albums, singles, videos) have not been certified in some markets due to not having certification-systems during the era when ABBA sold most of their records, but that is the exact reason why we keep our required certified sales amount as low as 20% of the claimed figures. Note that

HarrySwed, let me informed you that Harout is the most trusted editor in this list and all of his argue is the most reliable than the other. You can also give some argue but i suggest you to read this list carefully and please show up your argue with good description and reliable source, thanks.Politsi (talk) 03:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the certified sales: out of the 19 countries you list (by the way: yes, there are more than 19 countries on this planet), only 2 (TWO) listed include 1972 while 6 others start during the time ABBA was active, which leaves 11 countries that don’t even cover a single year of the active period of ABBA. Furthermore, those single sales are highly questionable. Looking at a market like Germany, you list total single sales auf 250,000 which obviously is FAR removed from the actual truth. And yes, the sum of all these aspects make me assume that it actually really is just a rather small fraction of actual sales. But seeing that you have already removed the 100 million sources, you obviously agree with me, at least to some degree.

And Politsi, your assertations don’t really work out well for you, so I’m gonna ignore most of them. Just one thing: if you want to have a conversation with somebody, please start using a different attitude. And for god’s sake, read carefully: I never stated that ABBA Gold has sold 30 m units. And one last thing: your line about someone being “most trusted editor in this list and all of his argue is the most reliable than the other” is actual a quite dangerous one. The notion of someone who is always right, regardless what he/she says reminds me days long gone. HarrySwed (talk) 07:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, First. You should learn on the future a well manner as a newbie. Please remember to be carefully using this sign !. this sign ! is a symbol of vanity (especially if you just started some talk or discussion). Be a man/woman please and face it. Second, about Harout i'm saying that personally (and it is my bussiness) for me, he is the most reliable editor in this list (despite sometimes i'm not agree with his argue) but for me that's the truth. If you or any other editor doesn't agree with my statement about him, that's your bussiness (and i don't care) even Wikipedia already say about do not feed the Diva but he always the one who really care about the reliability of this list. Third, the source of 100m-records previously has been deleted with the reason that claim is just before ABBA disbaned on 1982, but i will put this source from Billboard (http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/1551303/abbas-agnetha-faltskog-drops-comeback-single-album-to-come) this recent article stated 100m-albums of ABBA and I will use it in this list (the same claim of Albums only being used also to 200m-Led Zeppelin and 150m-Queen). Please remember, in the 200m-list ABBA has the lowest certification units than the others. Politsi (talk) 08:39, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

This will be my last reply to you as it obviously doesn't make sense talking to you. Judging by your comments, you are either not reading what I write or you aren't capable of fully understanding the content. Therefore it's just wasted time really. And you informing me about manners is really funny. Thanks for a good laugh! Furthermore: if you are using that Billboard link of yours please make sure to include this one as well: http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/508315/unreleased-abba-song-finally-hitting-stores That would be objective, wouldn't it? But obviously your intention is to sabotage this list and Harout's work by knowingly falsifying its content, which actually is really something between you two and none of my business. Take care! HarrySwed (talk) 09:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I just saw that you have changed your previous comments here! Is it really that important to you? Seriously? HarrySwed (talk) 09:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Case close with you (and do not ever replying my comment again). I dont want to waste my time replying your comment again, you understand me! (i'm never using this sign ! if it's not so important for me) and i've seen that ABBA 100m-albums has been deleted but i will bring back that claim in this list, because your billboard source above is came from 2012 while my Billboard source came from 2013 and i've been discuss this with Harout and he gave the decision to me. (sorry, you dont deserve to get Thanks, because you dont give any contribution yet to this list). Politsi (talk) 01:35, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I am an ABBA fan and I always believed the claims of 350-400 million to be totally unbelievable. Just because something gets reported in the media doesn't make it 'fact'. I welcome the downgrading of ABBA sales to 100-200 million (and the downgrading of The Beatles and Elvis from a billion to 600m and from Michael Jackson from 750m to 300-400m - don't forget we are talking all sales - albums, singles, downloads. ABBA fans might like to look at this site http://abbasales.hpage.com (Coachtripfan (talk) 10:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC))

I read this article in which ABBA fans - including the one writing here complaining about the downgrade, do concede the 350m figure is too high. http://www.iphpbb.com/board/ftopic-30652567nx61610-13668.html (Coachtripfan (talk) 08:16, 18 April 2013 (UTC))

Yeah, what a revelation! Surely 350m is too high, but just like that also 100m is too low. The truth will most likely be somewhere between 200 and 300m (maybe more towards 200m). My point was that I'm not really supporting the way this list is created, namely by using a limited number of countries to calculate a limited number of certified sales and afterwards go looking for so-called reliable sources that are closest to those certified sales while ignoring other sources that state otherwise. This is especially questionable as nobody will ever be able to tell the "correct" number of sales, so one might wonder where all these sources get their figures from. But god forbid that someone might want to discuss this approach, let alone question it (or even worse: use an exclamation mark). Following the responses to my comments as well as the private talk between the two main editors of this list during the previous weeks teels a lot about the credibility of this list. So from what I've experienced here during the last week I at least can tell how reliable this list appears to me... HarrySwed (talk) 21:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

To Coachtripfan, thanks for bringing those source in this talk page. That's so objective, you were ABBA fans but you keep logical to see the truth. again, thank you. Politsi (talk) 01:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, the so called limited number of markets listed here, happen to represent 85-90% of the entire

Dear Harout, to start with, let me apologise for the term "weird guys". That was certainly not appropriate. However, let me also repeat something that I've written earlier in this conversation: "Regarding the certified sales: out of the 19 countries you list, only 2 (TWO) listed include 1972 while 6 others start during the time ABBA was active, which leaves 11 countries that don’t even cover a single year of the active period of ABBA." And by looking at the provided figures more closely, it becomes clear that obviously only a certain amount of releases has ever been certified (which is quite natural). But just to give an example: in Germany you list sales of 150.000 for singles, because only "Fernando" has ever been certified. Yet they had more than 20 top-10 hits in that country, which obviously have created much bigger sales in total. So yes, I repeat what I have said before: yes, I highly appreciate the work you've put into compiling this list of certified awards and I don't question it, as those are facts. What I do question is what you do afterwards, by hunting for sources that somehow fit your calculation model. My question "one might wonder where all these sources get their figures from" was in that context: where do you think all those news services get their figures from, that you use as "reliable sources" (honestly, I was really suprised to see your surprise about Forbes using Wikipedia as a source - I mean, where else would all those news services and newspapers get those numbers from as there is no official source available? --> I'd really love to hear your oppinion on this one!)? Even identical sources, like Billboard, keep using different numbers in almost every article. And what you do is picking the ones that fit your calculation and ignore the other ones. Yes, that is somehow questionable. And if I read comments in your conversations that go along the lines of "they should be listed higher because they deserve it" and others "don't deserve" it I really do get the feeling that at least every now and then Politsi isn't all the objective. Reactions to me and the attitude towards ABBA make it pretty clear that he has his preferences and also shows them, which frankly does harm to the credibility of your list. And let me make it pretty clear: his comments don't just "need work and/or are not at all well thought out". Some of them are extremly rude, impolite and offending. From what I've heard, he is only one step away from being blocked. Nothing you get just because your comments are not "all well thought out" I guess. HarrySwed (talk) 08:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, Stop talking about me in here. If you don't have any contribution at all for this list, then stop raising anger of another editor. and about the possibility that i could be blocked from here, that's not your concern.

I've done with you, and STOP saying something related with me. you JUST have to see the list, and do anything you could to make this list more reliable and prestigious.

You could see my conversation with Harout in this talk page, if you have something good (reliable source for claim figure) for this list. Please use your attitude by asking Harout first (even you've already have a good source), and don't ever use this sign ! IF you want to started some discussion.

But, If you dont want to hear my suggestion at all, just ignore it. Politsi (talk) 09:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

This discussion thread has gone on too long. This will be my last comment here as this is going no where. HarrySwed, please pay close attention to links or files I have provided for you above.

• Germany: I have 250,000 units for "Fernando", not 150,000 units. Also, ABBA haven't begun charting in Germany until 1974. That's only a year before they established their certification-system (1975). So, the reason why they have only "Fernando" certified Gold is because the rest of the singles obviously haven't reached 250,000 units of sales (Gold status back then).
• U.K.: ABBA have begun charting in the U.K. in 1974. That is one year after the U.K. established their certification-system. So all records that have reached certification-levels, must have been certified.
• France: ABBA have begun charting in France in 1974. That is one year after the establishment of French certification-system.
• Canada: ABBA have begun charting in Canada in 1974. That is one year before they launched their certification program.

Of course we know that the U.S. has had its certification-system since 1958. Those five markets alone as I've said above, make up 60-65% (or more) of the entire global music sales. Let me emphasize this once again, and I said this above, the available certified sales posted are not immediately related with ABBA's actual sales. They are simply there to illustrate the sales bracket where the actual sales might fall into. And clearly the 200 million records for ABBA is a big stretch. Over 100 million records, but under 150 million. And that's what our source states, more than 100 million records, not necessarily 100 million. As for your question where news services get their figures from, they get them 99% of the time from artists' record companies. But I'm sensing that they are avoiding to do that as they're all beginning to realize that record companies almost never give them true sales figures, they simply receive inflated figures for promotional purposes. So I don't blame the news services for turning to sites like Wikipedia. I think enough has been said for one band's sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:22, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree, enough said on this topic. As much as I like to engage in a discussion, I have the feeling that we're not really progressing. I think we should just agree to disgree on certain things. Nothing wrong with that I guess. Take care. HarrySwed (talk) 17:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

HarrySwed, I can't help feeling you were looking for an argument. This site clearly states (1) ABBA sold between 100-200m records. Not just 100m. (2) 55m certifications, yes.Claims for artists pre-1975 (eg ABBA) would have to have at least 20% of sales which were certified. Many of the major markets already had certifications.

Please note too that the vast majority of records are sold in just a few key markets eg UK, US, Germany, Japan - as pointed out by Harcout72. (If you look at Gold's sales on http://abbasales.hpage.com you'll note for example the vast majority are in just a few countries. Incidently, the huge sales for this aren't typical for ABBA - but the distribution of most sales in just a handful of countries is).

Thanks for the comments Politsi.(Coachtripfan (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2013 (UTC))

Wall Street Jouran is just a diary, does not have any power in the industry or certify anything, so why this newspaper say that Michael Jackson did not sell 750 or 1,000 million records need not be true. When in 2006 Michael Jackson was presented the award Diamonde in the WMA for the 100 million copies of Thriller also recorded sales of over 750 million records sold. And all the media says the figure from 750 to 1000 million sold when playing a disc. So I demand you put that MJ sold between 750 - 1000 million albums because it's true. Up Billboard says MJ sold more than 750 million when playing a disc, as well as CNN, BBC, ABC, NBC, and all the world's television networks. And if Wikipedia wants to be a serious encyclopedia, it has to put the truth and the truth is that MJ sold between 750 and 1000 million shaste the time diff. In 1996 WMA MJ certified as the best-selling artist of tods time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.53.23.179 (talk) 19:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

If you're so adamant that so many sources support the 750 - 1 billion claim, please provide the sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 06:51, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

The 750m Michael Jackson figure was inflated, as were 1 billion for both Elvis and The Beatles and 350m for ABBA. Yes, sometimes media outlets do report these - but they are wrong. Looking at MJ's albums Thriller has sold around 60m-ish, BAD just over 30m, Dangerous a little under 30m, History around 20m max. Off the Wall 20m or so. These are his big sellers and you only get 160m albums. Add all other studio albums, compilations and his Motown era stuff I can't see how you get more than 200m albums. There's singles and downloads of course which would give his total to be 300M plus. Like I said, it's not just MJ who has had sales downgraded but other artists too - rightly. (Coachtripfan (talk) 16:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC))

Harout, i think this list has became famous around the world. Because i've seen several un-know artist but they claim to have sold million albums.

For example, Melanie Safka. Excuse me harout, but i really don't know who she is. The News-Herald (Ohio) (http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2012/05/02/life/doc4f9f064b87578567981145.txt) claim her has sold 80m-albums.

What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 09:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I see 2 million certified units from the U.S., clearly not enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think this list has become something that many artist dreamed about it. Politsi (talk) 04:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout. Today, I was checking each claim figure source of those artist in this list, to make sure all the source still active. and then I found that 80m-albums claim for the Doors, is missing. Please check again this source and proved me that i'm wrong.

(http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/view/184486/When-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailerWhen-You-re-Strange-Film-review-and-trailer).

I've try to find another source to replace that with same claim (80m-albums) but i can't find it. Harout, this is only my suggestion. If we still can not find that figure for them (80m), what if we place them in the 100m-list by using this source?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-01-11/news/os-lk-doors-alive-mount-dora-20130111_1_jim-morrison-bass-music-sound

Their certification sales is good enough to support that claim, what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 11:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I think you know already that we keep the sales figures low, close to available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes Harout, of course. I completely support it. But the matter is, if we click the site for the claim figures source of The Doors (Daily Express), the page is Missing and it seems that source has been erased already, we need to keep all site still active because i think that is one the most important thing in this list.

I dont know perhaps, the problem happen's only in my computer but would you please try to click the The Door's figure source, is it still active in your computer?

If not, we need to find the new source immediately with same claim (80m-albums) but if we still could not find it. like i said, we replaced them with the new claim (100m-albums).

To be honest, i still could not find it. Maybe you could? thanks Politsi (talk) 04:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, if we still can not find the other 80m-albums claim source and you think that 100m-albums is look too much for them, What if this 75m-albums claim by San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/music/ci_16906619) need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:48, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

I fixed it. The archived version of that source is available.--Harout72 (talk) 04:58, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks harout. We need to make sure the site of claim figure always active. Politsi (talk) 05:20, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i never heard them. Perhaps this group are singing for Four Seasons Hotel, but this source (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/theatre-dance/features/why-frankie-vallis-jersey-boys-are-still-working-their-way-back-to-us-and-into-cinemas-8573986.html) said them have sold 100m-records. what do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 03:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Not a chance. I see 4.5 million in certified units from the U.S., 460,000 units from the U.K., 50,000 units from Canada. Not enough.--Harout72 (talk) 05:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow. that's rich. Harout, i think you and me should be proud for what we've done to this list. Imagine that, now so many artist so desperate to claim having sold 80m and 100m records in media. for what?. I think it must be this list. Politsi (talk) 08:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna needs 68% in certified sales so with 86 million she can have over 120 million in claimed sales. Sources for 120 million claimed sales: 1. http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/music/rihanna-brings-the-sin-and-a-touch-of-class-in-her-tampa-bay-times-forum/2116402 2. http://www.mercurynews.com/entertainment/ci_22974441/rihanna-5-things-you-need-know 3. http://www.tampabay.com/things-to-do/music/taylor-swift-rihanna-go-back-to-back-at-times-forum/2115664 Ilikeriri (talk) 15:42, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Two of your sources speak of Singles only, while the third one states 30 million albums and 120 million singles (total 150 million). Therefore, we cannot use anyone of them.--Harout72 (talk) 15:48, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Harout and perhaps to Madonna fans (i'm a former Madonna fans). I need your advice, what do you think if i put her lowest claim figure (200m-records) of her in the list by BBC News? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15672254)

so she has three claim in the list, same like MJ. need your advice harout. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

If it said 200 million records, I'd advise against using that source as Madonna's available certified sales are over 161 million. But since it says over 200 million records, I believe it should be fine to put it up there next to her other claimed figures.--Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, thanks for your advice. I've try to find another 200m-figure plus for Madonna (beside from BBC), but most of the prestigious news source always claim her sales at 300m. So it seem's the over 200m-figures looks not appropriate for her. So i decided to let her with 275m-300m only. Politsi (talk) 01:25, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

77.44.232.141 (talk) 10:27, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

as it's mentioned in the wiki article katy has sold 11 million albums and 75 million singles

shouldn't this info put her in the list at least with the 75 million row >>>????????????? since other artists in this list have only 8 million certificated sales while Katy have more ................. right ?

like this page from RIIA they classified Katy the third in certificated singles

with 29.5 million units http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinum.php?content_selector=top-artists-digital-singles and this page is talking about her sales in the US alone

and this alone can put hr in the article .. right ?

please pay attention

– — ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

Will.I.Am's certifications (ALL BACKED UP BY CERTIFICATIONS ON WIKIPEDIA WEBSITE AND RIAA/ARIA/etc. CERTIFICATIONS)

SINGLES

14.6 - I Gotta Feeling (As BEP)

10.7 - Boom Boom Pow (As BEP/Producer)

6.9 - OMG (Featured/Producer)

8 - My Humps (As BEP/Producer)

7.3 - The Time (As BEP/Producer)

4 - Scream & Shout (Main/Producer)

3.1 - Fergalicious (Featured/Producer)

2 - In The Ayer (Featured/Producer)

2 - Hall of Fame (Featured)

3 - Let's Get Retarded/It Started (As BEP/Producer)

1.5 - Where Is The Love? (As BEP/Producer)

1.5 - Pump It (As BEP/Producer)

4.1 - Big Girls Don't Cry (Producer)

2.1 American Boy (Producer)

3 - Meet Me Halfway (As BEP/Producer)

TOTALS: 73.8 MILLION

---

ALBUMS

4 - The Dutchess (Producer)

8.5 - Elephunk (As BEP/Producer)

10 - Monkey Business (As BEP/Producer)

11 - The E.N.D. (As BEP/Producer)

2.9 - The Beginning (As BEP/Producer)

TOTALS: 36.4 MILLION

---

Total certified sales in this case total 110.2 million albums/singles sold.

---

I started writing a section for will.i.am in the "100-119 million" section, but I ended up getting too lazy to start listing all of will.i.am's creds. I will either finish it (or if someone would like to finish it for me) later.

Here is the progress on the section: |- ! scope="row" | [[will.i.am]] | United States | 1992-present<ref name="will.i.am Biography">{{Cite web|url=http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/will-i-am/biography/|title=Monsters and Critics: will.i.am Biography|accessdate=2013-5-6}}</ref> | 1992<ref name="will.i.am Biography"> | <small>{{ntsh|110.2}} {{hidden|'''Total available certified units: 110.2 million'''|*list creds here | style="text-align:center;"|110.2 million

First sign your edits, second the certifications for Black Eyed Peas are for that group, not for Will.I.am as a solo artist.--Harout72 (talk) 04:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, what do you think about this source from The National (http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/music/dubai-gets-ready-to-twist-and-shout-to-celebrate-50-years-of-the-beatles) it is said about 700m-albums of The Beatles.

And 250m-records from Deutsche Welle (http://www.dw.de/beatles-50-years-of-fame-began-in-hamburg/a-16281641)

Which one is reliable to be put on the list? or both not?. Need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 02:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Deutsche Welle claims something very low based on The Beatles' certified sales, and The National claims something very high. Leave them both out.--Harout72 (talk) 03:04, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, need your advice. is this source quite reliable? (http://dalje.com/en-bestseller/31st-anniversary-of-elvis-presleys-death/172727) thanks Politsi (talk) 02:31, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I can't find information on that source at List of newspapers in Croatia, but it appears to be a news service in Croatia. Go ahead and add it next to our other 600 million claim for Presley.--Harout72 (talk) 03:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Harout. But when i look back again, i think that source is not beautiful. I wanted this list looks beautiful and properly, That's why I always arrange the claim figures source in this list as much as looks properly, to make this list very prestigious. Politsi (talk) 04:18, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, I need your advice. actually in their 38.7m-units certification, how many exactly their albums sales only. Because i feel they don't deserve to get 150m-records in the list.

If 90% of their certification units come from their albums sales. I think 130m-albums is more appropriate for them (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/john-mayhew-drummer-who-played-with-the-fledgling-genesis-on-trespass-1671354.html). thanks Politsi (talk) 05:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, 98% of Genesis' certified units are based on albums. I too think that the 150 million is way overblown for Genesis. Looks like your source above is one year newer than the one we currently have for Genesis. If there are no sources that claim 130 million records, then we should be ok with replacing our source with the one you recently found.--Harout72 (talk) 15:48, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

None and thanks for the info Harout. And i just feel not comfortable with The Daily Telegraph (U.K) because this news service has been published many inflated sales figure. I think, i will put Genesis with 130m-claims. Politsi (talk) 17:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I've been put Genesis with 130m-albums claim Politsi (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, I need your advice. So far we only received a source from News Organization and Music Industry. But how about from Book that have been published by someone?

Like this (http://www.tinyripple.com/DonnaSummer.htm) about 100m-records of Donna Summer. What do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

No, avoid those.--Harout72 (talk) 02:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, we have a big problem for her. Her claim figures of her from Euronews are missing, we must immediately find the new for her. Need your help and advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:06, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I will replace it with this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10871010) thanks Politsi (talk) 06:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i really need your opinion for this. So far, we keep this list to make it very reliable and prestigious. Personally, i think the claim sales figures in this list is very important and should be put and match with each biography of those artist in their own article in Wikipedia.

I've been trying to match the claim figure in this list to each artist, but i'm still curious why to several artists (such as Queen, ABBA, Beatles, and Elvis Presley) the editor who's handle their article refuse the claim figure in this list.

For example, I've been put Queen's claim sales from 150m-200m according from the list in their biography. BUT the editor in their article always revert it again to 150m-300m. For me, actually this is weird!.

Harout, please advice. How much important the contain of this list?.

Why the contain of this list not became a mandatory rules for each artist biography?. do we make something like a vandalism? I need your opinion. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, what do you think about this old bands? and this source (http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20121209/ent/ent3.html) 80m-records. thanks Politsi (talk) 04:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Not enough certified sales, just one million certified units from the states, and some 120,000 units from the UK.--Harout72 (talk) 05:44, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Since one of the established artists of the 90's where the claimed sales should range from 40 to 60%, should her ~120 million certified sales brings a total of 220 - 240 million actual sales ? Fidel 14:48, 16 May 2013 (UTC) Thanks

Based on her 120 million certified units, it seems that she has sold not more than 150 million records (albums, singles, videos) worldwide. Clearly the 200 million for Carey is inflated enough.--Harout72 (talk) 15:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Then how come Madonna with 161 million sold nearly 300 million? and there are many many sources claiming Mariah's sales for 220 million records like Late Night with Jemmy Fallon, Wendy Williams claimed that she had sold nearly 260 million.... Fidel 15:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that this was a competition list as you view it. But Madonna hasn't sold 300 million based on her available certified sales either, her actual sales should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 million maximum. And why would anyone-who understands records sales-care what people like Fallon claim during their shows? Also, you might want to read the very last sentence in the lead of this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

So both are inflated! I didn't knew it sorry!

Harout, so far this band has been listed with 300m-records and also include with 200m-albums as their lowest claim.

but how about this source from Seattle Post-Intelligencer? (http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/blogcritics/article/Music-DVD-CD-Review-Led-Zeppelin-Celebration-4118573.php) it is said 200m-records. is this reliable?

because if it yes, then i will kick-out their 200m-albums claim in this list with this new records claim.

And i need your permission. I feel that The Daily Telegraph (U.K) is not good as their history, because i've learn that the editor in this news service is quite stupid.

for example, what do you think about Adele's 21 in this source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9450131/Singer-Adele-babysits-for-a-strangers-child-at-high-street-cafe.html) 220m-copies?. what a stupid silly i think.

I will try to erase all claim figures in this list from The Telegraph (U.K).

Need your advice and permission. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Most of Led Zeppelin's certified sales is based on album sales, but surely it'd be better to have 200 million records, rather than 200 million albums, Seattle Post-Intelligencer is reliable. As for Adele, I think they meant to type 22 million albums, they mistakenly typed 220.--Harout72 (talk) 02:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

That's what i mean it too, but for me. That's absolutely danger for the Telegraph reputation, they should know that their articles will be spread through worldwide, that's why all contain must be evaluated carefully.

and for 200m-records of Led Zeppelin. thanks for the information Harout, actually i just found one source which claim 200m-records of the band while there is so many claims for 200m-albums. And to make the list still beautiful to see, i think i will let their 200m-albums on the list until i have found another source for 200m-records. thanks harout. Politsi (talk) 04:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

HAHAHAHA. I can not believe it, such a prestigious news source like The New York Times and The Belfast Telegraph use a source from me.

Before i'm successful to find new claim figures for Green Day and Meatloaf, they still said to have sold 65m and 70m.

After I re-new their own article in Wikipedia with the new claim sales, 75m for Green Day and 80m for Meatloaf.

They use it.

Meatloaf (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/music/reviews/bats-all-folks-after-epic-swan-song-29267674.html)

Green Day (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/booming/from-sex-pistols-to-gaslight-anthem-and-green-day.html)

Look it Harout. What Do you think? thanks Politsi (talk) 09:30, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Don't know if the Sun can be used as a reliable source but here they claim 80 mill records sales for the Welsh diva http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/4932276/bonnie-tyler-eurovision-united-kingdom.html Anyone knows her certifications level? thanks Uncleangelo (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncleangelo (talk • contribs)

For a claim as high as 80 million, Tyler would need to have 17 million certified units (or 21.33%). I don't see enough certified sales:

• USA: 3.5 million
• UK: 810,000 units
• Germany: 1,250,000 units
• France: 500,000 units of albums and 1,750,000 units of singles, (total 2,250,000)
• Canada: 475,000 units
• Switzerland: 125,000 units
• Austria: 125,000 units
• Finland: 74,523

There may be a few more, but it's never going to be enough. Looks like she may have sold maximum of 30-35 million records worldwide based on her certified sales above (8,609,523 units), but 80 million is completely inflated.--Harout72 (talk) 18:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the certification breakdown Harout72! I thought so too, so I did some research and found this info on the Eurovision page claiming 20 mill records sold http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/year/participant-profile/?song=29803 a much more realistic figure for sure...Uncleangelo (talk) 13:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeap, 20 million+ is just about right based on her available certified sales.--Harout72 (talk) 17:11, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, is there vandalism in here? why she's here? i think she's not ready to claim 101m-records with only 71m-in certification sales. Beside, her certification only spread in six countries.

101m-records is still look's so inflated, i think we must wait her certification reach 80m to reach that claim. Rihanna so much better than her, need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

OMG... Taylor 101 million records sold and Rihanna 100? Sorry, but that's not true... — Tomíca^(T2ME) 09:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Swift has enough certified sales to meet the required certified sales amount. Believe me, at the rate that she's collecting her certifications, she will reach 80 million in certified units within only months.--Harout72 (talk) 11:01, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's

WP:CRYSTALBALL, there is no f way that she has amassed a total of 101 million sales. I grantee that! — Tomíca^(T2ME)

13:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

That's a CRYSTALBALL? Do you even know what that term stands for? The bottom line here, is that Swift has enough certified sales to meet the requirements. You do know that we have requirements for certain amount of certified sales, don't you? If you don't, I suggest you go to the second box from the top on this talk page and have a look at it. By the way, this list should not be viewed as a competition list.--Harout72 (talk) 17:10, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not looking at this as a competition list, but the list is just not right. Who add those rules??? It's stupid just to think that Swift sold more than Rihanna. It's awkward, when people read it they will laugh about it, of course because it's not true. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 00:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Tomica, please hold your anger for a moment. This list is considered the most reliable source for claim figures of artists worldwide, even the editor from all prestigious news source will see this list rather than the artist publishers.

The contain of this list is also very controversial but please respect Harout and me because we working day-by-day to kept this list in consistence way. I would not say this list is perfect but this list is reliable.

It would be greatful for us, if you make yourself useful by trying to find the better source for Swift claim figures. Politsi (talk) 06:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Politsi. I am not angry, I am just disappointing seeing untrue sales. I still don't believe Swift sold 101 million copies. More than Rihanna? Lol. Will try to find smthg. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 07:29, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Taylor Swift may have enough certified sales for a 100 million claim, but 101 million? Really? No other artist on this list has their claimed sales EXACTLY to the right amount, they are instead rounded up or down by either 5 or 10 at least. If she has enough certified units, it should be for a 100 million claim, and even then, she should be below several other artists like Rihanna and Metallica because her certified units for 100 million aren't as high as theirs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 09:12, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

please correct the total sales of Britney Spears who have surpassed 100 million and have reached 130 million worldwide to date. This is easily demonstrated if one adds all the sales of Albums, singles and videos from the beginning of her career to date.^[3] 79.131.103.168 (talk) 15:16, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

It's correct.--Harout72 (talk) 17:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Britney Spears has sold 100 million albums, and 28.6 million singles that are only digital (that's not even considering the physical sales of her singles) she has sold AT LEAST 120 million RECORDS worldwide when you consider her DVD's etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.117.6 (talk) 09:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

This list is ranked by claimed numbers of records sold, and for that reason it is extremely misleading. (Each separate group can be sorted by certified sales, also, but the overall list cannot.) For example, Shania Twain is way down on the list, with claimed sales of only 80 million. But her certified sales of 71 million are greater than the certified sales of several dozen artists/groups with higher claimed sales figures. They, or their record companies, are evidently guilty of embellishing the truth, which Twain is not. (She is two places below Gloria Estefan, who claims 90 million sold, but has only 32.7 million certified - less than half Twain's figure.) Her honesty makes her appear to be far less successful, relative to them, than she really is. The "Claimed sales" column should be eliminated, because anybody can claim anything they want. If desired, those figures can be cited in footnotes, or contained in parentheses below the certified sales for each entry. Treplag (talk) 02:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)Treplag

There is one small problem with listing artists/bands based on certified sales only. Lot of the music markets' haven't made certifications issued before 1990s available in their certification-databases including Australia, Brazil, Austria, Poland etc.(see our notes section for that information), although most have had certification-systems since the 1970s and 1980s. Therefore, having the rankings based on certified sales alone, may not reflect the true picture for older artists/bands whose earlier certifications we don't have access to.--Harout72 (talk) 02:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Now that her certified sales are 95 million should we consider updating her sales 150 million? Several sources reported about, here are some 1, 2 and 3. I would like to hear the opinion of other users. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 15:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Your sources aren't reliable. But Rihanna can be listed with a claimed figure as high as 139 million records (albums, singles, videos combined), if of course the source is by a new agency.--Harout72 (talk) 15:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Really? How is MTV not reliable please tell me? And also the others one. I don't see any of them failing notability. — Tomíca^(T2ME) 17:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I think there is a difference between notability and reliability. Quite frankly, the fact that all three have screwed up and published a sales figure as outrageously inflated as 150 million for Rihanna, makes them all unreliable. Rihanna's actual sales based on her available certified units, should be somewhere around the neighborhood of 110 million or maximum of 120 million records. While Cape Town Magazine may be notable, we don't accept such sources here at this list. As for MTV, we only accept MTV if articles are directly from their Newsroom, as the editorial board is entirely different for the latter.--Harout72 (talk) 00:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Harout, i think this the time that we should place Rihanna to 150m-list because her certification is very excellent, she will cross the 100m-certification in a month. Need your help. thanks Politsi (talk) 06:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna will need 102.4 million in certified units to be listed with 150 million claim. Yes, most probably she will collect the needed 7-8 million certified units in one month. So if you can find a news service claiming the 150 million and post it here, I will make sure to update her claimed sales once she's at 102.4 million certified units. All sources that user Tomica posted above are useless for this list.--Harout72 (talk) 15:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Rihanna has sold over 11.4 million records in the UK acording to

In Denmark, Pon de Replay (Gold - 15,000) Source 1, SOS (Platinum - 30,000) Source 2, Unfaithful (Platinum - 30,000) Source 3, Umbrella (2x Platinum - 60,000) Source 4, Shut Up and Drive (Gold - 15,000) Source 5, Don't Stop the Music (Platinum - 30,000) Source 6, Take a Bow (Platinum - 30,000) Source 7, Disturbia (Platinum - 30,000) Source 8, Rehab (Gold - 15,000) Source 9, Russian Roulette (Gold - 15,000) Source 10, Rude Boy (Gold - 15,000) Source 11, Love the Way You Lie (Gold - 15,000) Source 12, Only Girl (In the World) (Platinum - 30,000) Source 13, S&M (Plstinum - 30,000) Source 14, We Found Love (2x Platinum - 60,000) Source 15, Princess of china (Gold - 15,000) Source 16, Where Have You Been (Platinum - 30,000) Source 17, Diamonds (3x Platinum - 90,000)Source 18, Stay (Gold - 15,000) Source 19 Take Care (Gold - 15,000) Source 24. Her albums Talk That Talk (Gold - 10,000) Source 20, Loud (Platinum - 20,000) Source 21, Unapologetic (Gold - 10,000) Source 22, Good Girl Gone Bad (Platinum - 20,000) Source 23. She has sold over 645,000 records in Denkmark acording the certified units by IFPI Denmark.

Acording to

We post the certified units of albums, singles and videos, not the actual sales units. The Official Chart Company in this article speaks of actual singles sales only. Also, you have incorrect certification levels posted above for Denmark. This source says that Denmark IFPI raised its singles levels from previous 8,000/4,000 to 15,000/7,500 on February 1, 2007. And as far as I'm concerned, the singles levels were raised again to 30,000/15,000 in 2009. Unless you have a different source that says otherwise. So based on that:

• "Pon De Replay" has been certified gold for 4,000 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in 2005. (see page 23 for Denmark's certification levels in 2005)
• "SOS" has been certified Platinum for 8,000 units, not 30,000 units as it was released in 2006. (see certification-levels until early 2007
• "Unfaithfull" has been certified Platinum for 8,000 units, not 30,000 units as it was released in 2006. (see certification-levels until early 2007
• "Umbrella" has been certified 2x Platinum for 30,000 units, not 60,000 units as it was released in March 2007. (See the levels in your source under 2007-08-02)
• "Shut Up and Drive" has been certified Gold for 7,500 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in
  June 2007
  .
• "Don't Stop the Music" has been certified Gold for 7,500 units, not 15,000 units as it was released in September 2007.

I can go on but it's waste of time. Based on Rihanna's detailed certified sales, the figures (41 million albums and 150 million digital tracks) by Rolling Stone magazine are completely inflated. Anyways, I don't include Denmark's certifications on the list because we still don't know all of their dates for changes in certification-levels.--Harout72 (talk) 02:29, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment: I'd just like to point out here that any and all RIAA certifications Rihanna receives for digital singles after May 9, 2013 follow the new "combined" rules that include streaming, where 1 download and 100 audio/video streams each count as 1 certification "unit".

This is how "Love the You Lie" and "We Found Love" were able to receive an 11× Platinum certification and a 7× Platinum certification despite only selling 5.86 million^[4] and 4.98 million downloads,^[5] respectively.

These two singles alone lower Rihanna's certified purchased albums, downloads, and videos to 88 million.

and do the math

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