Talk:Lists of cities in Europe

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How is this a list of cities in Europe!? It should be called list of countries with cities!

Or, more properly, this should be "List of lists of cities in Europe" or something like that. And, seems quite stupid that there are two lists of largest cities in EU (one with > 300,000 and one with > 100,000 cities), but no such list about Europe. Since Europe is a traditional definition, and EU only a union of countries. 85.217.21.99 (talk) 17:13, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo
the scope of the articles recites: "including countries that fall to at least some extent within European geographical boundaries according to certain definitions". This means that before you insert countries that are not in the list here, you have to bring reliable geographical sources that give a geographical definition of Europe where the territory of those countries belong to the European territory. Alex2006 (talk) 06:14, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh are you telling me that Cyprus and Georgia are in geographic Europe? How come you have no problem with them being in the list yet you have a problem with including actual transcontinental countries? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 08:10, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We are talking about your edits here. I did not see that Cyprus is in the article, thanks for noticing it: about Georgia, one part of its territory lies north of Caucasus, in Europe, and the intro says "countries that fall to at least some extent within European geographical boundaries..." so it is perfectly acceptable to have it here. Now I am going to revert it again, according to BRD, and we can discuss it on the talk page. If you revert again, I will be forced to report you to an admin, since apparently you are just continuing the disruptive editing started yesterday. Alex2006 (talk) 08:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are engaged in an edit war as well, therefore I advise you to take your own advice. Furthermore, since you acknowledge Georgia has some of its territory in Europe, that also applies to Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Turkey. So explain why you are removing them, or are you just interested in reverting other people's contributions? --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 08:23, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I removed Armenia and Cyprus from the list. Now you cant really object to anything. By the way, the template at the bottom of the article includes countries that might be outside geographic Europe but are close enough to have socio-political connections with the continent. There's no good reason to exclude the likes of Armenia and Cyprus in my opinion. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 08:34, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is very good. You know, the problem lies only in the word "geographic". If we define Europe, as you say, socio-politically, Armenia and Cyprus (an EU state) belong 100 per cent to it. But if the definition here is purely geographic, no. This is an encyclopedia, and one must be above all precise. Alex2006 (talk) 08:39, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well we could include them. What's stopping us from doing that? What if we include Armenia and Cyprus and just place a superscript next to them that indicates those countries have socio-political connections with Europe? After all, Europe is mostly a social construct. Look at this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe. That's the standard I've been going with. In my opinion, it makes all parties happy and will prevent future edit wars from happening. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 08:48, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I saw what you wrote on Jaakko Sivonen's talk page. Please don't feel upset. I'm not trying to hurt you, so please don't get sad. We just have different ways of looking at things. Alright my dear? :-) --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 08:54, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo Kutsuit, is not a matter of having different views (actually we have the same view about this matter, since we both think that Cyprus and Armenia are culturally European), the difference about us is that while you think that this is a place to write his/her own personal opinions, I think that this should be a place to write reliable and non contradictory information. About writing to our fellow user, it is normal, since he spent a lot of time in bringing this subject to a good stand, and he had to be informed. Please don`t take it personally. :-) Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:57, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No I don't think this is a place for me to write my own personal opinions; sadly that's your false assumption. There's no good reason why we should only list the countries that lie within the traditional geographic boundaries of Europe. After all, Europe, as understood by most people, refers mostly to a political and socio-cultural entity. It's a social construct more than anything, since a handful of countries that are considered European (e.g. Iceland, Malta and the UK) are not even geographically attached to the main peninsular landmass of western Eurasia. I've already posted links to other articles on Wikipedia that list countries such as Armenia and Cyprus with Europe. Europe has many variable definitions and almost all Europe-related articles, categories and templates that you'd find on Wikipedia list all countries that are considered European -- be it geographically, politically or otherwise. In fact, even the geographic boundaries of Europe are not agreed upon either. As I said in another talk page, this issue is not as black-and-white as you may think. --Nadia (Kutsuit) (talk) 19:34, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, but then you should first reliable sources that define the borders of "Europe" socio-culturally, and then write the article (included introduction) accordingly. As I said, it is perfectly acceptable to write a list of countries belonging to the council of Europe. In other words: the scandal is not that you write that Armenia is European in a socio-cultural way, but that you use this concept to enlarge arbitrarily the geographic borders of the continent. Physical geography deals with geographic features like rivers, mountains, distances to coasts, belonging to continental platforms, and so on, not people. What is plainly wrong is that the geographic boundaries of Europe are not agreed. They moved, especially in the south east quadrant, but always using rivers or mountain chains as definition. And since the last 100 years each geographic institution shows the same geographic boundaries. You are most welcome to find a reliable geographic scientific source (not blogs, newspapers, tv stations, and other crap, but scientific papers) that define the borders in another way and bring it here. Alex2006 (talk) 07:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The title is inaccurate (possibly degrading wikipedia). It only contains a list of lists of cities having population over an arbitrary chosen number depending on the country (List of cities in Andorra contains cities, towns and villages!). Either lists or title should be more specific.--