Talk:Mexican National Heavyweight Championship

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I've decided that I am going to try and make this a "Featured List", hopefully the first of many FLs on Mexican wrestling titles. This is my test subject, once I get this one approved I'll implement stuff I've done here to other Mexican title listings. I've put a to-do list up made from input from a couple of fellow wikipedians. Please feel free to help out or provide input along the way. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously one of the things I did was to split out the actual list ;) MPJ-DK (talk) 12:06, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Review by Truco (talk · contribs)

Lead

• The Mexican National Heavyweight Championship (called the Campeonato Nacional Completo in Spanish) is a national Mexican professional wrestling championship created and sanctioned by "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F." (the Mexico City Boxing and Wrestling Commission). -- (1)Mexican should just be "lucha libre" not linked to Mexican, as lucha libre is a form of professional wrestling in Latin American countries, not just Mexico (2)Replace sanctioned with "operated" (3)The Spanish name of the promotion should be in italics per
  MOS:ITALICS
  (4)the is a part should be reworded to "is a Mexican lucha libre professional wrestling..." [no need for the national part, unless you are inferring that it is a World Heavyweight Championship?]

• 1) Actually since it's a title restricted to Mexicans I found that Lucha Libre is too broad a term like you said Lucha isn't limited to Mexico - while this title is limited just to Mexico. I can change it but I feel that the other way makes more sense given the specifics of this particular title.
• 3) Done
• 4) Done

• While the commission sanctions the title, it does not promote the events at which the title is defended. -- sanctions should be "operates"

• Sanctioned is the correct term here, it's used in plenty of sports and "operated" means they have a practical "day to day" involvement with the title, they don't at all.

• As the championship is a professional wrestling championship it is not won or lost competitively but instead by the decision of the bookers of a wrestling promotion. -- Reword the beginning to "As it is a professional wrestling championship, it is not won or lost...."

• Done

• The title is awarded after the chosen champion "wins" a match to maintain the illusion that professional wrestling is a competitive sport. -- This is really
  jargony
  . With this explanation, you will need to further explain how pro wrestling works, it is best if you follow a similar formula in explaining this like it is in the recent promoted FLs.

• It's not jargony at all IMO, in a few simple sentences it explains that the titles aren't won competitivly and that pro wrestling is basically pre-determined, what more do you need to know to get the gist of it?. I found it to be quite the opposite of jargon really.

• The earliest documented use of the Mexican National Heavyweight Title is in 1926, with the possibility that it is even older. -- The last part of the sentence is
  WP:OR
  , it is best if you just leave it out.

• Done

• The earliest documented use of the Mexican National Heavyweight Title is in 1926, with the possibility that it is even older. Being created in or before 1926 means that the Mexican National Heavyweight Championship is the oldest continuously promoted wrestling title in the world, predating even the creation of the oldest currently active wrestling promotion. -- it would be best to merge these with my suggestions as "The earliest documented use of the Mexican National Heavyweight Title is in 1926, meaning that it is the oldest continuously operated wrestling title in the world." (I left , predating even the creation of the oldest currently active wrestling promotion this part out because I'm not sure what you were trying to say [are you saying that is older than the oldest promotion?])

• Done, and no I didn't mean to imply that it predates ALL wrestling promotions, but that it predates all wrestling promotions that are still active today. To reduce confusion I removed it instead.

• At some point after Pierroth, Jr. won the title in 1995, he left CMLL and signed with AAA, bringing the Mexican National Heavyweight title with him. -- Reword to "After Pierroth, Jr. won the title in 1995, he left CMLL and signed with AAA, bringing the Mexican National Heavyweight Title with him to the company." [the term "Title" when used with the official name of the championship needs to be capitalized, and promotion and company need to be used interchangeably]

• Done

• The current Champion, Charly Manson, is the longest reigning champion; although, there is some uncertainty over his championship status. The longest documented reign belongs to El Médico Asesino who held the title for 2074 days (over five and a half years). Mr. Águila holds the distinction of being the champion for the shortest amount of time with 42 days. -- Reword to "The current Champion, Charly Manson, is the longest reigning champion; though, there is some uncertainty over his championship status, and as a result, the longest documented reign belongs to El Médico Asesino, who held the title for 2074 days. Mr. Águila holds the distinction of being the champion for the shortest amount of time with 42 days."

• Done, took your suggestion

Key

• (n) - Indicates that a certain event took place "no later than" the date listed. This puzzles me, I don't get the purpose of this symbol and it use, as its not common in other FLs.

• Few of the FLs have history that dates back so far that the documentation is sparse, the (n) symbols means that during their research they found that at "this date in time" a person was listed as holding the title, but no record of who he defeated or when - which means that all they know is that this champion won the date "No later" than the date they've found but can't pin it down any further than this. It's the notation of the wrestling title history book.

• 'Indicates that there was a period where the lineage is documented. -- for this symbol, I would add a footnote explaining why it isn't documented

• I can do that i suppose, state that documentation of wrestling from the 20s to the 40s is hard to come by.

Champions

• The locations need to be all linked (regardless of whether they were linked once already since this is a sortable table)

• I will do that

• The date does not sort properly.

• the problem is when there are only years or only years and months it throws off the sort, I'll fiddle with it.

• I figured it out. It was the dates that were only year or month & year. I solved it too, inserted a hidden "full date" putting it to the first day of the specific month or year using <span style="display:none">{{dts|yyy|mm|dd}}</span>. So sorting is... well sorted ;) MPJ-DK (talk) 11:52, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Explain what the "bold" in the days held column means.

• That's not explained in one single other FL I've looked at, I took the format from there but I'd rather personally remove it (so that's what I've done)

References

• Pro wrestling history and wrestling-titles is not reliable</s<

• Technically they're "undetermined", neither have been proven unreliable - they're a source, just not a "Reliable Source" and are only used for referencing "noncontroversial" facts, I'm finding that people go overboard on the "RS" account, but I've got a lead on something more acceptable for the FLC reviews so that'll be sorted.

• Replaced with wrestling magazine references, fortunately I know a few Mexican fans who collect these and they've been very helpful. I kept the Wrestling-title.com source for the weight, it's a harmless piece of information IMO, should be alright. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Format the wrestling title histories ref as a general ref, as seen in this FL ref section.

• Can do, I like that.

Summary

• For now, its not ready to be nominated for FLC due to the many problems in all areas.--₮RUCӨ 21:01, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that I agree with "operates" instead of "sanctions". "Operates" sounds awkward in that context, and "sanctions" is a word used throughout many sports. Perhaps "recognizes" or "owns"? In addition, the "jargony" sentence doesn't appear to have any jargon. It explains how professional wrestling works in language that should be understandable to a wide audience. Finally, "though" and "although" can't be used after a semicolon like they appear in the final point for the lead. If the whole sentence isn't going to be rephrased, the semicolon should be replaced with a comma; if it is rephrased, the "though" should more to after "status" and be set off with commas on either side. GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree on "Sanctions" and the jargony. I've also fixed the gramatic problem you pointed out.

Yeah, most likely, I'm not the best in grammar.--₮RUCӨ 23:21, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]