Talk:National Association of Schools of Music

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Park0977 is inaccurate.

Contact NASM as I did. American Conservatory of Music is now diploma mill school - their degrees are worthless.

NASM's answer was:

The American Conservatory of Music is not an accredited institutional member of the National Association of Schools of Music.

Visit the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM) website at www.arts-accredit.org and ask them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.104.166.30 (talk • contribs) 10:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See the American Conservatory of Music talk page for more information about why the above statement made by 38.104.166.30 is false. Park0977 (talk) 08:27, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, my edit of the NASM article did not infer that the American Conservatory of Music is accredited by NASM. It merely listed that particular conservatory as a charter founder of NASM among others. There is nothing inaccurate in my article edits. However, I have found one item is in error, which will be fixed.Park0977 (talk) 08:27, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The American Conservatory of Music and NASM jointly state the following so there is no confusion:

The American Conservatory of Music was an accredited institutional member of the National Association of Schools of Music from 1924 to 1998.

After seeing the history of edit warring over who founded NASM, I tried to found sourced information on that topic. After determining that I couldn't find sources to verify either side of the war, I deleted the founder's name entirely. --Orlady (talk) 06:04, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All information I posted is from verifiable sources and I quoted to them. Why was my material deleted? It is easy to independently verify my edits. Go to the library and verify. There is no basis upon which to question my edits. For instance:

The newspaper article which I found is available [here]

and the publication which I found: NASM -- The First Forty Years by Burnet C. Tuthill, Copyright 1973, National Association of Schools of Music has information available about it [here].Park0977 (talk) 07:52, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I stumbled across this article and saw a history of edit warring in which you apparently were insisting that Burnet Tuthill was the founder and various other users were insisting that Gilbert Raynolds Combs was the founder. Also, I found that your most recent edit had inserted incredibly trivial information such as the fact that the first meeting "adopt[ed] all provisions with minor corrections, except for one provision, of a proposed Constitution and By-Laws". Not only is that nonencyclopedic trivia, but it looks like it might have been copied from a source, which could be a

copyright violation

, and it was unclear where any of the content had come from. Seeing the content dispute regarding the founding of this group and not seeing any sources for either position that I could verify, I removed both versions. It is never incorrect to remove a contentious detail and let the "warring" parties settle the dispute on the article talk page.

After seeing the information you provided above, I have restored the content that you had added on November 11 (but I edited it a bit). I have not seen the full article from the LA Times, but the link you provided above helps me to

assume good faith

regarding the full article.

I expect that there will be further discussion here regarding the exact story of the organization's founding. Please remember that Wikipedia wants reliable third-party sources for

verifiability. --Orlady (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

The [link] provided in my latest edit of the article independently verifies the NASM publication's information (cited above) that Burnet C. Tuthill was the founder of NASM. Gilbert Reynolds Combs did not have anything to do with the founding of NASM according to NASM itself. The NASM publication further explains that Burnet C. Tuthill invited five other institutions to meet on June 10, 1924, and at that meeting, they decided to form the NASM. It is not encyclopedic to list erroneous information, such as perpetuating the fiction that "Gilbert Reynolds Combs" was THE founder of NASM. Park0977 (talk) 07:27, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The brute-force manner that you have used in introducing new information to this and other articles does not give confidence that you were acting in good faith or that your changes were justified. More than anything, it was your

vandalism

-like behavior that caused me to revert the article to the version that had been here for a long time.

As I noted above, Wikipedia needs

reliable sources for verifiability; phone calls to NASM are not admissible as sources. It is most likely that this organization had multiple founders (that is, several people who met and agreed to start the association), but I have not found anything online that substantiates either the version that Combs founded it by himself or the version that Tuthill founded it by himself. This student-written biography of Tuthill and this book both generally agree with your source on Tuthill, but they say he was one of several organizers (not the only one). Since they are both supported by reference citations (unlike your source, which is a short bio on a music publisher's website), I think they are more reliable. Meanwhile, this short biographical sketch of Combs says he was "a founder and vice president" of NASM (not "the" founder). I could support a statement that NASM was founded by several people, including Combs and all of the people identified as original officers. However, new additions to the article need to be supported by citations to references such as those discussed here. --Orlady (talk) 18:42, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Thank you for your contributions in finding online sources that verify Mr. Tuthill's version published by NASM in 1973 (the link I provided above for "NASM -- The First Forty Years" as above cited). Although many personages may like to take credit for the formation of NASM, the fact is (according to Mr. Tuthill in the NASM publication above noted) that the six institutions I listed in my version of the article, in the personage of 7 persons, were the true founders of NASM. Mr. Combs was not present at the June 10, 1924 meeting which started it all. It is still my impression from reading Mr. Tuthill's book (above cited) that he was the sole instigator of the June 10th meeting. He arranged for it to happen. Of course, his humility showed through the words of the text and he did not take that kind of credit in so many words. It is also true that Mr. Tuthill needed the other 6 persons in order to carry out the formation of NASM. Therefore, I happen to agree with you that it really was the work of seven persons who created the Constitution and By-Laws of NASM on that 10th day in June, 1924. I have been truthful with you in everything. If it is necessary, all you have to do is obtain a copy of the book if you feel the need to verify the information presented from the NASM publication (above cited). Yes, I have been aggressive in defending the truth, because I want to improve Wikipedia. That is why I am here to volunteer. For the record, I never made any telephone calls to NASM. Park0977 (talk) 00:26, 15 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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