Talk:New England Patriots/Archive 2

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At the beginning of this page, the text "They are third in appearances in a Super Bowl with seven (the Pittsburgh Steelers and Dallas Cowboys each have 8), and have the most appearances in the last 25 years." should be changed to read "They are tied for first place with the Pittsburgh Steelers and Dallas Cowboys in number of Super Bowl appearances with eight, and have the most appearances in the last 25 years with seven appearances since the 1990 season. In addition, their eight AFC Championship wins is tied with the Pittsburgh Steelers for most AFC Championships." - Joshua 98.28.129.216 (talk) 04:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

The paragraph "The Patriots have appeared in the Super Bowl seven times. The team advanced to the playoffs four times before appearing in Super Bowl XX in 1986, losing to the Chicago Bears. The team also appeared in Super Bowl XXXI in 1997, losing to the Green Bay Packers. The Patriots won their first Super Bowl in 2002, defeating the St. Louis Rams. Their next Super Bowl victory was in 2004 when they defeated the Carolina Panthers. Their most recent victory was in 2005, where they defeated the Philadelphia Eagles. Since their last victories, they have made Super Bowl appearances in 2008 and 2012, where they lost to the New York Giants both times." should be rewritten as "The Patriots have appeared in the Super Bowl seven times. The team advanced to the playoffs four times before appearing in Super Bowl XX in 1986, losing to the Chicago Bears. The team also appeared in Super Bowl XXXI in 1997, losing to the Green Bay Packers. The Patriots won their first Super Bowl in 2002, defeating the St. Louis Rams. Their next Super Bowl victory was in 2004 when they defeated the Carolina Panthers. Their most recent victory was in 2005, where they defeated the Philadelphia Eagles. Since their most recent victory, they made Super Bowl appearances in 2008 and 2012, where they lost to the New York Giants both times. They are scheduled to appear in their eighth Super Bowl, Super Bowl XLIX, on February 1, 2015, where they will play against the Seattle Seahawks." - Joshua 98.28.129.216 (talk) 06:29, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Please include a much needed section in this article about the well known and widely documented scandals, no matter whose sensitive feelings it hurts to face the fact it's astronomically impossible that the Patriots have not been cheating. And please link to this article that proves that it's nearly impossible that they have not been systematically cheating for years:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

Anyone who is clearly biased because they happened to be an Patriots fan who spends much their time whitewashing this wikipedia page should not unilaterally decide to censor this information, and they should just go make themselves a blog as an outlet for their zealotry instead of polluting wikipedia with whitewashing and censorship. And we all know who I'm referring to. The fact that the Patriots cheat at football does not give their zealot fans license to cheat at Wikipedia, too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xardox (talk • contribs) 13:41, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Sharp football analysis is NOT a reliable source and the article has been debunked by multiple sources. Take your bias elsewhere.71.81.54.171 (talk) 05:47, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

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To use correct grammer, please change "The New England Patriots ARE a professional American football team" to "The New England Patriots IS a professional American football team."

Valdreskin (talk) 02:23, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Not done: "are" is correct for American English, see

MOS:ENGVAR, American English is used here since this is an American topic.—Bagumba (talk

) 08:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

As one of the few teams whose coach has been personally fined for cheating, it's pretty sad that it isn't mentioned in this article. I'm sure the fans are happy about that but this is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia. It should be mentioned. The Dissident Aggressor 06:50, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I do see it mentioned in History of the New England Patriots. Since the article seems to have only a brief summary of it's playing history, it's arguable whether it's major enough to belong here.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

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2014 Superbowl Champions

It already says that in the infobox. Stickee (talk) 00:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

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I uploaded the new photo of Gillette Stadium that features 4 Super Bowl championship banners, adding "World Champions 2014". Giocaringal6 (talk) 02:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

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The number of super bowls the Patriots have participated in are 9 not 8 as mentioned twice in the article. ref: just count them yourself 24.218.163.4 (talk) 12:13, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

 Not done Please see List of Super Bowl champions:- 4 wins (2001, 2003, 2004, 2014) + 4 losses (1985, 1996, 2007, 2011) = 8 appearances - Arjayay (talk) 13:27, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, there are only eight Super bowl appearances:

1. Super Bowl XX (lost to Chicago Bears)
2. Super Bowl XXXI (lost to Green Bay Packers)
3. Super Bowl XXXVI (won vs St. Louis Rams)
4. Super Bowl XXXVIII (won vs. Carolina Panthers)
5. Super Bowl XXXIX (won vs. Philadelphia Eagles)
6. Super Bowl XLII (lost to New York Giants)
7. Super Bowl XLVI (lost to New York Giants)
8. Super Bowl XLIX (won vs. Seattle Seahawks)

Perhaps you were also counting the

AFL-NFL merger? Zzyzx11 (talk

) 15:57, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if "many saw Pat as a symbol of ineptitude" is an accurate statement. On the day the Flying Elvis was unveiled at the stadium, the fans cheered for Pat and booed Elvis. --MrBawn 13:07, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I was the one that put that in there. I stand by that, by 1992 when it was retired in game use, "Pat Patriot" to many had become a symbol of ineptitude - just like Tampa Bay's pre-97 "pirate" logo had long been a symbol of embarassment. Of course, that is not to say that people loved the Flying Elvis when it was rolled out - indeed, a lot of people didn't like it and I even read one wag refer to them as "USFL uniforms."--Seadog1611 01:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

There are at least a dozen other NFL franchises whose history over the last half century make the Patriots' not only not inept, but in fact rich in success, heroic performances on the field and loyal support off it. The "many" who allegedly perceive(d) Pat Patriot as a negative symbol clearly do not include: Patriots fans, New Englanders, Football fans (even opponents' fans to this day are strikingly vocal in support of the previous logo & uniforms), casual sports fans, and those possessing any fashion sense or common sense (including every woman who has ever addressed the subject over the last 23 years), to name a few. ChumleyDuh (talk) 23:57, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Any of these claims (whether a symbol of ineptitude, or because then-owner Orthwein was neither previously a Pats fan or from New England) need to be

inline citation. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (talk

) 03:50, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

As per featured article suggestions, I plan on trimming the history section down to about one paragraph per header, and perhaps 2 for the dynasty era. All of the info has been moved to History of the New England Patriots. Deckiller 22:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I trimmed it down somewhat; I'm thinking that this level of information looks pretty good. Once we replace it with beautiful prose (I wrote it in somewhat of a hurry) and cite, we might be ready for feature article or at least good article status. Deckiller 00:31, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

• A suggestion for FA: You should also begin a section on the logo and uniforms too, and how it evolved from the "Pat Patriot" logo to the "Elvis" logo. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:37, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, sounds like an awesome idea. Deckiller 00:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I added the brief section from the history page to get the ball rollong. Deckiller 00:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I admire your dedication, Deckiller. keep up the good work!--Alhutch 03:31, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

In the "Franchise History" section the following sentence: "A change was also made that same year to the Patriots uniforms, changing their primary colors from their traditional red and white to blue and silver, and introducing a new logo." Should accurately read as follows: "Despite never being a New Englander or Patriots fan, Orthwein and his marketing team commissioned the NFL to develop a new logo, and changed their primary colors from the traditional red, white and blue to blue and silver for the team uniforms." (ChumleyDuh (talk) 00:23, 6 March 2016 (UTC))

Perhaps to include in the "Rivalries" section but somewhere in any case; are three seminal and critical events, all occurring in games versus the Oakland Raiders. The first and second both occurred at Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum in the 1970's: On December 18th, 1976, the Patriots played their second-ever playoff game and first in the NFL as a wild card entry against the host Raiders, whose only loss was a blowout at Foxborough in October. Referee Ben Dreith, later the primary figure in the officials union's legal suits versus the league, led a crew that was exposed on the live telecast as missing several blatant holding infractions committed by the Raiders, particularly when tight end Russ Francis, who earlier in the game had his nose broken by defensive end George Atkinson (no foul called then either), watched a late Steve Grogan third down pass bounce between the "8" and the "1" on Francis' jersey and fall incomplete, as both his arms were held behind his back by linebacker Phil Villapiano. Leading late in the fourth quarter 21-17, the Patriots' defense saw Ken Stabler's third down pass fall incomplete, and the Raiders were to face a near impossible fourth-and-eighteen with time running out. However, Dreith threw his penalty flag, calling defensive tackle Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton for roughing the passer, a seldom-called infraction at that time reserved for the most extreme quarterback hits. This, despite Hamilton actually deflecting the ball; and though Stabler went down in a heap, he admitted in 2002 to Boston Globe reporter Will McDonough (who was also there covering the game in 1976), "That should have never been a penalty. I got hit a lot worse than that in my career and it was never called. Hamilton just went for the ball and landed on me. That's all that happened." After a further unsportsmanlike conduct penalty against New England, a perfectly healthy Stabler had no trouble rolling into the end zone for the winning touchdown, and the Raiders rolled easily thereafter to win their first Super Bowl. Then, on August 12, 1978, an evening preseason game at the same venue became the worst nightmare for television viewers after midnight back in New England, when young Darryl Stingley, a talented, popular husband and father who was due to sign a contract extension within days, went over the middle in pursuit of a high and hard Steve Grogan pass. Oakland safety Jack Tatum, later rumored to be making bets with fellow defensive backs before the game on "who could knock someone out" that night, hit Stingley in a collision that left Stingley motionless on the ground, until after what seemed like an eternity taken off on a stretcher to the hospital. Stingley very nearly died during the next thirty-six hours, barely surviving but left paralyzed from the chest down. No penalty was called on the play, and no personal apology ever was given from Tatum. The deep, unabating bitterness felt by Patriots fans was exemplified after they defeated the Raiders seven years later at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, again as a wild card team in the divisional round, when Pats GM Pat Sullivan fought on the field with Raiders players, referring later to "crap we've taken from that organization." Finally, on January 19th, 2002 in the last game played at old Foxboro Stadium, the division-winning Patriots hosted the #3 seed Raiders in a game-long blizzard. Late in the fourth quarter, after second-year quarterback Tom Brady was hit by college teammate Charles Woodson, he lost the ball and the Raiders recovered, appearing poised to run the clock out and preserve their 13-10 lead. However, after a video-replay review, referee Walt Coleman overturned the call on the field, citing the clearly applicable but obscure "tuck rule" wherein Brady never fully tucked the ball away before the hit. The Patriots retained possession of the ball, Adam Vinatieri made what former Raider coach John Madden called "the most clutch field goal I've ever seen in my life," a 45-yard line drive through the blowing snow, and later the winning field goal in overtime, after which the Patriots won the next subsequent two games to secure their first Super Bowl victory. (ChumleyDuh (talk) 02:23, 6 March 2016 (UTC))

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Update latest meeting between New England Patriots and Indianapolis Colts to 10/10/2015. It reads erroneously that the last meeting was the AFC Championship game. 73.170.37.215 (talk) 18:45, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please provide

reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. clpo13_(talk

) 17:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2016

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I want to add {Super Bowl hopefuls of 2015} Moron93 (talk) 21:50, 20 January 2016 (UTC) Thats all

Isn't every NFL team a 'Super Bowl hopeful'? Leaving that aside, are you suggesting a template of some kind? One does not exist under that title. 331dot (talk) 22:24, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

In the current staff section:

 Head coach-general manager/Lead Cheater – Bill Belichick

--50.49.124.55 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 25 January 2016‎ (UTC)

That was vandalism off in Template:New England Patriots staff, which was fixed by 65.39.44.32.

talk

) 11:25, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello, These banners that are displayed today have four not three as this picture was taken 9 years ago and this is outdated. Can somebody replace it? Palmount45 (talk) 20:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

This review is

transcluded from Talk:New England Patriots/GA1

. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MrWooHoo (talk · contribs) 18:24, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll start this review ASAP. Just before we begin, to sort out confusion, I will have a general review then an in depth prose and source review. In the general review, I'll use the "GA tools" box. I feel pretty bad for the number of times this page has been started and deleted, so I'll try and start/finish this review quickly. MrWooHoo (talk) 18:20, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Main Review

GA Toolbox

• Please resolve the issues noted here (besides the first note as this is a GA review). There are a couple of "weasel words" and some footnote punctuation problems. MrWooHoo (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

General Review

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	See prose review below.
	1b. it complies with the list incorporation .	Some weasel words that need to be changed
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline .
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	See source review below.
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as audio :
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Wrong license for just this picture. I don't believe the cheerleaders are air force members.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions .
	7. Overall assessment.	Fix GA toolbox problem, image license, prose review, and dead links.

Prose Review

Note: If you have changed the sentence that needed to be corrected, press Enter and start off the line with ::, then use Y or  Done If the change was only partially done use Y, and N or  Not done if the change could not occur. (If you would explain why, I would be greatly appreciated :P) To see code, go to edit source and copy the code.

• "The Patriots played their home games at Foxboro Stadium from 1971 to 2001, then moved to Gillette Stadium at the start of the 2002 season."

Right now, only 2002 is linked. Link both words of "2002 season" to the 2002 NFL season article.

• "This includes the current teams, the New York Jets, the Miami Dolphins, and the Buffalo Bills, as well as former divisional opponents the Colts."

Why not say "the Indianapolis Colts" for conformity?

• See the Oakland Raiders subsection.

Is it necessary for this subsection to be so long? It seems like a play by play summary in the first half of the subsection.

• "On the field, the Patriots have typically utilized an "Erhardt–Perkins" offense and a "Fairbanks–Bullough" 3–4 defense, referred to commonly as a 2-gap 3–4 defensive system."

See

WP:NUMERAL

. "Integers from zero to nine are spelled out in words."

Source Review

• Fix these 10 dead links. I'd advise Wayback Machine to retrieve old versions. MrWooHoo (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Discussion

• Hi @MrWooHoo: Just wanted to let you know that I have seen this and will try to get to your suggested edits over the next week or so. Thanks and sorry for the delayed response. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 13:23, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

@Sportsguy17: I have finished my review, I will now put this review on hold. Take your time. Cheers! MrWooHoo (talk) 03:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

• Just passing through, and saw the missing image mentioned above is from an af.mil domain. Ironically, that's the same as a missing image on a recent FAC image review that I did. Sure enough, I was able to locate the new image in the same way. It is now at this URL -- Saskoiler (talk) 03:11, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I just cut the Oakland Raiders subsection as unsourced; since that was the remaining issue that hadn't yet been addressed between the many (mostly) abandoned reviews over the past year I'll go ahead and close this. Wizardman 22:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Kevin Faulk needs to be added, he was inducted into the team HOF in August of 2016. He played from 1999-2011, he wore number 33, and he was a RB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hydraxon XV (talk • contribs) 03:34, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

The article says that the Patriots played at Braves Field. By the time they played at that location, most of Braves Field had been demolished, and replaced by a new stadium called Boston University Field, which was then renamed Nickerson Field, well before the Patriots even existed. So the played at Nickerson Field, but they never played at Braves Field. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 14:46, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

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At the Rivalries section, at the Baltimore Ravens area. There is a photo of Tom Brady with a caption that states that, "Tom Brady has a career record of 6 and 3 against the Ravens". However, it should actually say, "Tom Brady has a career record of 8 and 3 against the Ravens". Jetrex3 (talk) 01:48, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide

reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. JTP ^{(talk • contribs}

) 15:23, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Make that 7 and 3. FoxSports' http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-baltimore-ravens-tom-brady-preview-prediction-analysis-121216 and ESPN's http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/32254/ravens-vs-tom-brady-nfls-no-1-defense-goes-against-top-ranked-quarterback

72.211.216.210 (talk) 13:38, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Was AH ever a part of the main article? If not, shouldn't he be? Embarrassing or not, he was in fact a key and high profile player (highly successful) in the very short time when he was on the team, even if he became the bitter disappointment he later proved to be. (It's curious that the question has failed to already be a topic on this talk page.)

72.211.216.210 (talk) 13:29, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure he needs to be specifically called out on this page, but he is mentioned at 2013 New England Patriots season (where it only mentions the team dropping him). Skimming it I don't see much of a mention at History of the New England Patriots where such a mention might be better suited than this page. 331dot (talk) 13:41, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

• Macur, Juliet (February 5, 2017). "Why Do Fans Excuse the Patriots' Cheating Past?". The New York Times. Retrieved February 5, 2017. Lizard (talk) 20:54, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't know. He starts with the assumption that the Patriots are evil cheaters (not surprising for a NY-based person, even though he claims to not be a football fan), and then walks back to why fans would forgive them for that. There's nothing in there about the actual incidents in question, he just asserts that they don't matter, the fans would ignore them. As a pop psychology article, it may be interesting for a view on how groups operate. As far as stuff about the Patriots themselves (this article), it's pretty sparse on information. Tarl N. (discuss) 21:23, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

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Please change "This approach, which has led to four Super Bowl victories under Belichick, was analyzed in the 2004 book Patriot Reign." to "This approach, which has led to five Super Bowl victories under Belichick, was analyzed in the 2004 book Patriot Reign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilturk82 (talk • contribs)

Not done: please provide

reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me}

20:23, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Someone has set every single player to Gronk instead of their actual names in the roster section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weegore (talk • contribs) 18:06, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

For the record, the problem was in Template:New England Patriots roster and was fixed by this edit. Tarl N. (discuss) 21:56, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

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The team history states the following: Boston Patriots (1960–1970)[3] Bay State Patriots (1971)[4] New England Patriots/Cheaters (1971–present)

It says New England Patriots/Cheaters, clearly this is not the Patriot's team name. Some Falcons fan must've gotten editing privileges to this page. It should just be New England Patriots. Please remove the /Cheaters part. 148.0.61.205 (talk) 02:30, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Already done in this edit. Gulumeemee (talk) 03:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

There's already an article on that. It seems like devoting a section to it is redundant, unless I guess it's just a summary. Maybe a summary of all the draft picks might be more useful. Wanted to get your take. South Nashua (talk) 20:52, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

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Head Coaches category edit In 1992, Dante Scarnecchia took over head coaching duties from the ailing Dick McPherson after Week 9. He proceeded to lead the Patriots to a 2-6 record, finishing their overall record at 2-14. Joepollock47 (talk) 21:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited

reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk

) 10:28, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

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Please change team color "navy blue" to "nautical blue" because the New England Patriots 2018 Media Guide lists nautical blue as the official blue team color, not navy blue. I will paste the link for the media guide: http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/static/pdf/media-guides/NE-Media-Guide.pdf It can be found on page 311. Mikebcma (talk) 01:46, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I think we need a better reference than just a passing mention of selecting a new color in 2000. The existing references are pretty clear that until 1999, the color was Royal Blue (not Navy Blue), but I think we need an explicit citation that the current hue is Nautical Blue. Certainly to my untrained eyes, it looks like Nautical Blue (and not Navy Blue), but that's

WP:OR. Surely there is a specification somewhere that states "the colors are ...."? Tarl N. (discuss

) 02:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: @Mikebcma: @Tarl N.: The official color is Navy Blue. Here is the NFL's bylaws, updated in 2006, that says the Patriot's colors are "Red, White, Navy, and Silver". [1]. See section 19.9(A) RudolfRed (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Change: As of July 2015, the Patriots are the seventh most valuable sports franchise in the world according to Forbes magazine

To: As of July 2017, the Patriots are the second most valuable sports franchise in the NFL and 6th in the world according to Forbes magazine with a value of $3.4 billion. Gtpoirier (talk) 18:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 Question: Do you have a

reliable source to support your statement. regards, DRAGON BOOSTER ★

16:24, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide

reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sam Sailor

16:30, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 June 2020 and 2 August 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jasleenbghuman.

Above undated message substituted from

This edit request to New England Patriots has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

in 'franchise history' section, please add their recent win in superbowl 53 against the Rams Brick53 (talk) 15:04, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide

reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DBigXrayᗙ

06:31, 7 February 2019 (UTC)