A fact from Parker House (Sea Girt, New Jersey) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 April 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that after Sea Girt, New Jersey, passed a law that banned live rock and disco music at the Parker House(pictured), a state judge overturned the ban as being "silly"?
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While I'd ordinarily understand why hotel prices, etc. would raise an eyebrow, The New York Times found this worthy enough to cover. I don't see how this Wikipedia article is plausibly written like an advertisement by writing about the facilities in-detail. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 02:22, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That same article says "By 7 p.m., toilet paper was crumpled up on the bathroom floor." By your flawed logic, we should include that too. It's worthy enough for the Times to cover, right? This is an encyclopedia article not a newspaper. There's a lot of promotion and adverty stuff in there like the tag indicated (and now does again). Please leave the tag until the issues have been resolved. Toddst1 (talk) 05:09, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do take objection to the characterization of the section as advertising—the prose is entirely sourced independently and it is factual in nature. If you think that there is puffery, then I would ask specificially what you think is phrased non-neutrally, but I really don't think that a mere detailed description of the facilities and the business operations is in any way an advertisement. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 01:44, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This article is
WP:NOTCATALOG
and are not at all encyclopedic.
Do you have a connection to the place? Toddst1 (talk) 13:58, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article is not presently a guide for how to rent the rooms; no link to the actual place to do so is provided, nor have I tried to ascertain what the room rates are in any year other than 2017 (the very rates which were reported by the NYT). Again, merely stating the price of a room in a given past year is not somehow an advertisement.
And, no, I do not have any sort of conflict-of-interest with the establishment. I do not personally know its any of its employees nor any of its owners, nor do I have any financial stake in the success of the Parker House nor anything having to do with this article. I happen to enjoy writing about longtime landmarks (such as the Glen Rock), and I frankly don't appreciate the baseless insinuation that I'm somehow trying to advertise or somehow have a COI here. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 03:17, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you think pricing is important in an encyclopedia article, then? Toddst1 (talk) 03:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because it provides additional context to the (historical) business operations. The numbers are from 2017; I can't imagine that the room rents then are the same as they are now. — Red-tailed sock(Red-tailed hawk's nest) 13:48, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So you want to keep obsolete rental rates in there. Yeah, that adds a lot of value to the article. Toddst1 (talk) 16:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for understanding and for your agreement. (I think it's like including the (proposed) toll rates in Antananarivo–Toamasina toll highway and there is a certain encyclopedic value in including these sorts of prices more broadly). I'll remove the tags as such. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 21:18, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My comment was sarcasm and I believe you understood that. I've reverted your
WP:POINTy removal of the cleanup tag. Obsolete room rates are useless and have no place in an encyclopedia. Toddst1 (talk) 23:08, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
I had thought your statement was genuine—sarcasm doesn't carry well over text. I'm sorry for misreading you. That being said, I don't quite get why you edited your comment to make a personal attack. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 23:29, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've posted a request on
WP:3O, since nobody else seems interested in this. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 18:31, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Response to third opinion request (Disagreement about whether historical room rates are due for inclusion in the article, as well as a related maintenance tag):
I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Parker House (Sea Girt, New Jersey) and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.
Thank you for taking the time to reply here. In light of the substance of the reply, I've removed the maintenance tags from the article. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 02:02, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification on "building"
I think that the word "building" seems to be pretty self-explanatory. It's a building, inside of which is a business, but the two entities bear the same name. I'm not exactly sure how to word that, but I don't think "building" is wrong here. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 04:07, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Red-tailed hawk. I agree it is self-explanatory but...
"The Parker House is a building located in Sea Girt, New Jersey, that was built c. 1878."
I think the word "building" is redundant. (As are some other words in this first sentence.) A house is a building - it's obvious in context Parker House is a structure, especially as the sentence includes "was built c. 1878." The rest of the lede explains it as a "business establishment" and "a hotel", etc.
Even the location (Sea Girt, New Jersey) is not really needed; per
MOS:LEADSENTENCE
"Use the first sentence of the article to provide relevant information that is not already given by the title of the article."
Try stripping the sentence right back to something like:
Parker House was built c. 1878.
then only add any words you deem vitally necessary for readers. JennyOz (talk) 09:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I've made a tweak to the article along some of these lines. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 01:05, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks much better! JennyOz (talk) 06:33, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Response to third opinion request (Disagreement about whether historical room rates are due for inclusion in the article, as well as a related maintenance tag):