Talk:Phanariots

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Is Vlach synonymous of Romanian?

I don't think that Vlach and Romanian mean the same thing. Vlach has in wikipedia its own article, whence it is evident than modern Romanians are descendent of only one part of the Vlachs. Moreover, I remember that in Ottoman Constantinople there was a "Vlach Saray" but also a "Bogdan Sary", palace of Valachia and Moldavia, respectively. Alex2006 (talk) 11:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Phanariote families

Just out of curiosity; multiple Byzantine imperial families are included on the list of Phanariotes (not 'former'), including Doukas, Komnenós and Paleológos. Are there really still descendants living today? Iotacist (talk) 05:47, 4 February 2017 (UTC)Iotacist[reply]

South Slavs converting to Islam and Serbs in military positions

"As a result of Phanariote and ecclesiastical administration, the Greeks expanded their influence in the 18th-century empire while retaining their Greek Orthodox faith and Hellenism. This had not always been the case in the Ottoman realm. During the 16th century, the South Slavs—the most prominent in imperial affairs—converted to Islam to enjoy the full rights of Ottoman citizenship (especially in the Eyalet of Bosnia; Serbs tended to occupy high military positions.[8]"

This is ambiguous and sounds as though all the south Slavs converted to Islam in the 16th century. Could we rephrase this to reflect that some of the south Slavs converted to Islam, but many did not? As I understand it, many Balkan people, not just Slavs, converted to some form of Islam in Ottoman times, but in many cases this meant "Mosque on Friday, church on Sunday", a very loose and relaxed interpretation of Islam. Ethnic identity can be pretty fluid in the Balkans, so I suspect that while many people had "turned Turk" in Ottoman times, others would very likely have reinvented themselves as "Southern Slavic Christians" when the wind changed, especially if their ancestry and background was mixed and complex. I don't know if anyone has any reliable data on this (censuses for example).

Also is the last line (with its missing bracket and strange punctuation) saying that Bosnian Serbs converted to Islam and occupied high military positions? or that Slavs converted to Islam, especially in Bosnia AND Serbs [Christian or Muslim?] occupied high military positions. It's also rather ambiguous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pignut (talk • contribs) 03:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

spelling: Wallachia? Walachia?

Both spellings are now present in the article. I suppose both have been used in English-language books, but Wallachia is more common. Is it a good idea to use both forms? The Wallachia article shows both, and other variants. Oaklandguy (talk) 23:09, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for drawing attention to this. You are right that both are in use, but that Wallachia is more common. It makes sense to use a single form.

I suggest we go with Wallachia and keep it this way throughout the article.--Greece666 (talk) 14:50, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Phanariots spelling

Why does this page use the spelling Phanariotes with an e which is archaic? Nearly all modern historians since 1900 writing in English use Phanariots (including, for example, Arnold Toynbee, Barbara Jelavich, Richard Clogg, Steven Runciman, Mark Mazower &c.). The Encylopedia Britannica has used Phanariots since its 1880 edition. The Oxford English Dictionary uses Phanariots as its main headword. Google Ngram also shows that Phanariots is far more frequently used.

Most other similar Greek category names are now spelt '-iot'. For instance people from Smyrna or Corfu used to be called Smyrniotes or Corfiotes but are now Smyrniots, Corfiots, &c. See also the English word 'idiot' the ending of which has the same root.

I propose that the main name of this page should be changed to Phanariots, with alternative spellings given at the start of the article. Balkanonicus (talk) 07:39, 6 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]


I agree, Phanariots is much more common. The title should be changed. --Greece666 (talk) 12:07, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou - I have changed 'Phanariote' to 'Phanariot' throughout the article, I hope that's ok. However, I don't know how to change the title of the article, as I'm new to editing on Wikipedia. Any idea? Balkanonicus (talk) 14:10, 5 October 2019 (UTC) Update: I've managed to change the title now... Balkanonicus (talk) 15:00, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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