Talk:Tachanun
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Yemenite text length
Is the Italian one really shorter than the Yemenite text? My tiklal has a very short text quite distinct from Sephardic/Ashkenazi texts. Why no mention of the historical Nefilat alpayim/Prosration? --74.72.241.193 (talk) 09:22, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
I have rewritten this article, which looked rather messy. Specifically, I have removed a long paragraph with many direct quotes from the Rambam that seems to suggest that some Yemenites follow a particular custom based on these quotes. I will leave a message with the original author explaining why I think this material should be revised before reinclusion. JFW | T@lk 19:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand. I provided the sources in the
"There are 8 matters which the one who prays (the
"The mention of kneeling {k'reya} in every place is on the knees.." (Hilkhot Tefilah in Mishneh Torah 5:13)
There are 5 places where one kneels onto the knees during this prayer (Hilkhot Tefilah 5:10).
Each time one is to kneel, he should arch his back bending over until his backbone pokes out slightly (Hilkhot Tefilah 5:12).
"What does PROSTRATION imply? After one lifts his head from the 5th bow (of the
"..Prostration - this is the spreading out flat of hands and leggs, until he is flat with his face on the ground. And when he does the "falling upon the face" (a Jewish euphamism for prostration) after the Prayer (the
"We are to practice respect in synagogues... and all of the People of Israel in Spain, and in the West, and in the area of Iraq, and in the Land of Israel, are accustomed to light lanterns in the synagogues, and to lay out mats on the ground, in order to sit upon them. But in the cities of Edom (portions of Europe), there they sit on chairs." - Hilchot Tefila 11:5
"..and because of this (prostration) all of Israel is accustomed to lay mats in their synagogues on the stone floors, or types of straw and hay, to separate between their faces and the stones." - Hilchot Avodah Zarah 6:7
(Talmudic references: Megilla Khaf Bet - bet; Shavuoth Tet Vav - bet; Berakhoth 28 bet and 34 bet; Megilla 22 bet; Tur, Orach Chayim 131)
- at the least this could be included somehow into the history section. The only way these same quotes would suggest that Yemenites follow(ed) such a practice until recently is by the fact that traditionally
On page 34 side bet of Tractate Berakhoth p. 705 in the translation of the Talmud known as "THE TALMUD" WITH ENGLISH TRANSLATION AND COMMENTARY commentary to this chapter by Rabbi Dr. A. Carlebach, Editor: Rabbi Dr. A. Zvi Ehrman of Fellow Jews' College, London; Member of the ISRAEL BAR, and published by EL-'AM-HOZA'A LEOR ISRAEL Jerusalem - Tel Aviv 5742 - 1982 Peli Printing Works LTD, Ramat Gan - Givatayim, it states:
"The third [type of bow mentioned in this part of the Gemara is] (hishtahawa'a),...total bodily prostration;... (Tahhanunim; cf. Meg., ibid, B.M. 59B; El-Am Hazzahav, p. 184). YEMENITE JEWS STILL PRESERVE THE CUSTOM."
Apparently more of them were still known to be prostrating during Tahhanun at the time of the publication of this translation. I personally have only about 3 times seen Dor Daim Yemenite Jews prostrate publically... though I have seen more cases were non-Yemenite students of the Rambam prostrated in public.
One of my Rabbis told me that a well known Yemenite kabbalist called the
I think it's also worth noting that towards the end of the well known book
There are, in fact, many references to the practice of actual prostration throughout Jewish writings... A very deep text written about the topic, one which is unfortunately equally difficult to get one's hands on, is the volume of the book HaMaspeek l'Ovdei HaShem by Rav
Something should be mentioned about the fact that Ashkenazim traditionally do nafilat apayim with their faces actually on the ground during certain sections of the
Reference to Ashkenazi act of prostration during Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur]]: see almost any Ashkenazi High Holiday Prayer book (Makhzor) under the section of Mussaf - Avoda as well as in 'Rite and Reason' (page 528 &529 with references to Rema siman Tav-Resh-Caf-Alaf sayid Dalet, etc..) Omedyashar 16:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I changed "temple practice" to "original practice" under 'HISTORY,' because there is no source that historically they only knelt to the ground and placed face upon the ground ONLY in the Temple; there are, however, NUMEROUS sources indicating that placing one's face to the ground was the original daily practice even outside the Temple. It is a common misconception that it was done only in the Temple, due to the fact that only in the Temple was it permitted to press one's face to stone while prostrating, whereas in other places there had to be a separation between one's face and stone. Similarly, only in the Temple, while bringing biqqurim, is prostration a Torah obligation. Other times it is Rabbinic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.139.79.13 (talk) 21:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)