Talk:Taoist Tai Chi Society
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Critcism
This article seems to recite the Taoist Tai Chi Society's claims without any rebuttal or criticism, which is odd considering the low esteem with which it is generally held in the martial arts community. (RookZERO 05:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC))
The aim is to make the article align with a
I rm'd the NPOV tag. You may think it is not neutral but one key facet from your objection is missing. If you read the npov page, it says specifically that neutrality means representing equally all published points of view. if you can find a reference that criticizes the Taoist Tai Chi Society that is not included, please rv the deletion.
If the only published sources come from the organization and its adherents, are those sources really neutral? To be truly neutral, you'd have to write "the society claims it is about health and helping people, not developing martial skill." Until that claim is verified, it's only a claim. Speaking of surveys, are there any impartial surveys backing up the health claims of the Taoist Tai Chi Society? Or is this article based solely on information provided by the Taoist Tai Chi Society? Podmonger (talk) 17:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Trademarking
apparentely, if you check out the various sites for the TTCS, the phrase "Taoist Tai Chi" is not trademarked. Is there any changes that should be made to the articles? Are we required to mention it, say in the title of the article for
- Not so – the phrase "Taoist Tai Chi" *is* trademarked. See: http://www.taoist.org/content/standard.asp?name=LegalNotice
- Dhadams (talk) 19:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
- Not so, in spite of what the TTCS has published. The logo of the TTCS is a certification mark, not a trademark. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certification_mark and http://western.canada.taoist.org/copyright.htm . On its own, the phrase "Taoist Tai Chi" is not trademarked, and so its use is not restricted. If you search the Canadian Trade-marks database for "certmark" as current owner name ( http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/tmSrch.do?lang=eng ), you'll find the record of the TTCS certification mark, but no record of "Taoist Tai Chi" as a trademark. "Taoist Tai Chi Society" is trademarked, as is the logo as a certification mark, but not "Taoist Tai Chi". Although Wikipedia's goal of only citing published sources is admirable, self-published sources aren't always reliable. Podmonger (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
- edit: Certmark Holdings has recently filed for trademark registration for "Taoist Tai Chi" in the US. See http://www.trademarkia.com/taoist-tai-chi-77827215.html . Podmonger (talk) 20:07, 18 July 2010 (UTC) Registration was granted 8 February 2011 (ibid) Dhadams (talk) 01:22, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Taoist Tai Chi" has been used as a trademark in Canada since at least as early as May 1976. It became a registered trademark in Canada on 2014-12-22. Search for trademark registration number TMA892797 at http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/ Dhadams (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
- Not so, in spite of what the TTCS has published. The logo of the TTCS is a certification mark, not a trademark. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certification_mark and http://western.canada.taoist.org/copyright.htm . On its own, the phrase "Taoist Tai Chi" is not trademarked, and so its use is not restricted. If you search the Canadian Trade-marks database for "certmark" as current owner name ( http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/trdmrks/srch/tmSrch.do?lang=eng ), you'll find the record of the TTCS certification mark, but no record of "Taoist Tai Chi" as a trademark. "Taoist Tai Chi Society" is trademarked, as is the logo as a certification mark, but not "Taoist Tai Chi". Although Wikipedia's goal of only citing published sources is admirable, self-published sources aren't always reliable. Podmonger (talk) 16:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Hierarchy
Regarding the added information of 2007/05/23: [1], fyi: of the three "Taoist Tai Chi Society", "The Gei Pang Lok Hup Academy", and
Fair use rationale for Image:TTCSlogo.gif
Please go to
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"Taoist Tai Chi internal arts of health"
This term has been introduced throughout this article. Where does this term come from? It isn't used by the society, I never heard Moy himself use this term while he was alive and it isn't used in his seminal book The Art of Tai Chi - Cultivating Mind and Body by John Panter and Rick Davis, with Moy Lin Shin, Taoist Tai Chi Society, 1992. The term has been introduced even into the aim and objectives of the society in this article and that usn't supported by the ref cited. I will fix the aims to square with the ref, but please explain where the term comes from and why you think it should be in the article. - Ahunt (talk) 00:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
- In recent years the International Taoist Tai Chi Society, through its board of directors, has moved to assert its trademarks, including ‘Taoist Tai Chi’ and ‘Taoist Tai Chi Society’. Hence reference is now made to Taoist Tai Chi(tm) internal arts of health and Taoist Tai Chi Society(tm) internal arts of health. An alternative phrasing is Taoist Tai Chi(tm) internal arts and methods. Both are acceptable, although we are tending to use the ‘internal arts of health’ or ‘arts of health’ more often. These usages can be found in the 'A Path of Dual Cultivation' publication (2008), see reference 9. As you can appreciate, Taoist Tai Chi(tm) internal arts of health refers more broadly to all the arts Mr Moy taught, and their distinctive character, and not just to the Tai Chi form. The correct use of these trademarks is as described in this para. If possible, it would be appreciated if Wikipedia can conform to this usage. EclectusParrot (talk) 22:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
- Thank you for the explanation. I note on your user page that you acknowledge a conflict of interest in this subject area as per WP:NOTADVOCATE. Essentially Wikipedia is not here to promote the subject and use subject-organization approved language, but to be a neutral encyclopedia and use common language instead. As it stands the repetitive use of this term in the article appears very spammy and like it has been added by the organization itself as promotion. I don't have a problem with using it once along with an explanation that this is the term the organization uses, but then the more common term "Tai Chi" should be used. Also I can't find a ref for the use of this term, if it is the organization's preferred term then it should be used on their website or somewhere other than one paper book, so we can cite the use of it. - Ahunt (talk) 00:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)]
- Thank you for the explanation. I note on your user page that you acknowledge a conflict of interest in this subject area as per
- For an example of use of 'arts of health' see http://www.taoist.org/content/standard.asp?name=Testimonials_Summary. Various examples can also be found on the Society's blog http://www.thetigersmouth.org using the search facility. The Society has now updated http://www.taoist.org/content/standard.asp?name=AimsandObjectives to also reflect this usage -- previously this page was using 'arts and methods'. As stated earlier, either is acceptable but the Society is now more commonly using '(internal) arts of health'. EclectusParrot (talk) 05:40, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
- Okay I have completed that and also removed the para on trademarks. It isn't relevant encyclopedia content unless it has been the subject of a dispute or some similar ]