Talk:The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth

This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Philosophy: Literature / Religion / Ancient Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Associated task forces: /  Philosophical literature Philosophy of religion Ancient philosophy Religion Low‑importance Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Occult Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Occult, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the occult on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OccultWikipedia:WikiProject OccultTemplate:WikiProject OccultOccult articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The title of this article should reflect what the article is about. It is (mainly) about the whole tractate (codex VI, text 6). The article is not about what the father refers to as the "book":

“Child, copy this book for the temple at Diospolis in hieroglyphic characters, and call it the Eighth Reveals the Ninth.”

Because, note, that quote is part of the text itself, and I believe refers only to another part of the text. Arguably, the "book" (commanded to be titled "The Eighth Reveals The Ninth") refers to all sections of the text except the final one in which instructions for copying are given (as counted by Meyer):

1. The Discourse On The Eighth And Ninth
2. Prayer For The Ascent To The Eighth And The Ninth
3. Vision Of The Eighth And The Ninth
4. Instructions For The Preservation Of The Text

I grant there is some possibility that the father was in fact self-referring to the instructions as part of the book, but that seems unlikely. I propose the article be about the tractate as a whole and so named for it, and that the proper name for the entire text be something like (as proposed by Krause et. al in The Coptic Gnostic Library Volume III, p. 342) "The Discourse On The Eighth And The Ninth". I'll rename the article and have its former title "The Eighth Reveals The Ninth" be a redirect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raymond Keller (talk • contribs) 19:00, 16 July 2015 (UTC)‎[reply]

Dear Fadesga,

Are you sure it is appropriate to treat this Hermetic writing as part of the New Testament apocrypha? While it may have been copied and read by early Christians, is there any evidence that it was written by an early Christian, or that it was influenced, even partially, by early Christian perspectives?

Apaugasma (talk|contribs) 20:06, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Apaugasma: thanks for pointing to this. This article is classified under the category:Gnostic Gospels, itself a subcategory of the category:Apocryphal Gospels. That's the basic reason why I placed the template {{NewTestament-apocrypha-stub}}. Maybe that should be another discussion, shouldn't it? Or, if you prefer: just erase both the category:Gnostic Gospels and the template {{NewTestament-apocrypha-stub}}, and some other template should be better, for instance, {{Gnosticism-stub}}. Regards, --Fadesga (talk) 20:13, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info, I wasn't familiar with this yet. We should probably have something like {{Hermeticism-stub}}, since {{Gnosticism-stub}} also isn't appropriate. I have put in the more general {{Philo-stub}} for now. Apaugasma (talk|contribs) 20:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]