Template:Did you know nominations/Cookhouse

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 23:13, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Cookhouse

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Cookhouse at the Captain Edward Compton House

... that cookhouses (example pictured) were a standard feature of remote work sites, as the working men (e.g. cowboys, loggers, ~~miners~~, etc.) needed large amounts of food for the strenuous work they performed? [1] [2]
- ALT1:... that a cookhouse (example pictured) at a logging camp served up to five meals a day for the workers who could work upwards of twelve hours, and consume between 6,000 and 9,000 calories, a day? [3]

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Corn Belt Weekend
Comment: ~~This is a possible double hook with logging camp.~~

Created by Evrik (talk). Self-nominated at 05:37, 7 February 2021 (UTC).

Reviewing, Will complete soon. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

@Evrik:...New enough, long enough. Before completing review, suggest a clearer image and addressing high copyvio. I prefer the single hook but consider simplifying it and rewriting without using "e.g.", brackets and "etc". QPQ provided. Whispyhistory (talk) 20:39, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Whispyhistory: I swapped images, though I'm not tied to any image. As for the copyvio, That mirror site has copied the text from the Wikipedia article. --evrik ^(talk) 05:11, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

...@Evrik: Thanks for clarifying the copyvio. Image is free and clear...it is a reconstructed cookhouse. The hook contains "cowboys" and "miners". I could not see this in the cited reference. Please clarify. A shorter, simplified hook might be easier to read. An interesting topic. FYI...if interested...I had a little read around and also found...the evolution of the cookhouse to the kitchen [4], cockroaches and cookhouses, [5], illnesses in military cook houses [6], [7]. In 1885, D. G. Crawford described an outbreak in a military containment where they had to use the cookhouse as a hospital [8]. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I added a reference about cowboys. The miners cite is less clear, so we can drop that word ... if you have any suggested hooks, they would be appreciated. I will add the references to the talk page and will look at it later. Thanks! --evrik ^(talk) 02:30, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

The hooks are still too long....calling @Philafrenzy: to suggest a shorter hook? Whispyhistory (talk) 19:27, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Canadian loggers and their cookhouse, 1917.

ALT1... that their cookhouse (example pictured) was as important to loggers as their bunkhouse or tool shed?

ALT1a... that for loggers, the cookhouse (example pictured) was as important as the bunkhouse or tool shed?

ALT2... that farms often sprang up just to supply the cookhouse (example pictured) of logging camps, and closed when the camp did? Philafrenzy (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Please check ok with you @Evrik:. ALT1 looks good. Image ok too. Whispyhistory (talk) 06:39, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

The article cookhouse is barely adequate and is composed of a number of sources strung together just because they use the word cookhouse rather than canteen, kitchen, mess, or restaurant. If the sources had used another descriptor, would they even be in the article? It might be stronger if it more closely defined its subject and went into more depth about it. It has potential but right now it could easily be merged into another article and nobody would miss it. Philafrenzy (talk) 08:49, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you @Philafrenzy:...I'm sure @Evrik: will be be able to address these points. Whispyhistory (talk) 16:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

I think it needs a narrower focus and greater depth. Philafrenzy (talk) 17:25, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with Philafrenzy about the adequacy, and the stringing together of words. Logging camp already was featured on DYK, so I struck all of those hooks. The focus could be on North American logging camps, but the term is also used for other remote worksites, and for some residential uses. I think the DYK nomination could go ahead with the original hook. @Whispyhistory:, if you disagree can we get another opinion? --evrik ^(talk) 05:13, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Evrik:... I Will have a re-read through now that it is not a double hook. Whispyhistory (talk) 05:49, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
@Evrik: can you explain what the difference is between a cookhouse and a restaurant, galley, dining room, cafeteria, and refectory? I regret that the original hook is no good, but you have struck three good Alts. I have unstruck them as you will need them if this goes ahead. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

restaurant - A restaurant is a business that prepares and serves food and drinks to customers.

galley - the compartment of a ship, train, or aircraft where food is cooked and prepared.

dining room - a room for consuming food

cafeteria - a food service location in which there is little or no waiting staff table service

refectory - a dining room, especially in monasteries, boarding schools and academic institutions.

--evrik ^(talk) 04:58, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, but it wasn't necessary to lay it out quite like that. I was just hoping for a better definition of how a cookhouse differs from those. I removed some of the material in the article that strays too far from the topic and only seems to be there because it uses the word cookhouse rather than, say, kitchen or restaurant etc. Can you expand the article please, concentrating on the communal preparation and consumption of food at remote work sites, particularly in the lumber and resource-extraction industries as that seems to be the core of it. There should be enough material in "Old Boy, Did You Get Enough of Pie? A Social History of Food in Logging Camps" in further reading. Philafrenzy (talk) 07:53, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the key here are these two sentences"A cookhouse is a small building where cooking takes place. " and "The use of a cookhouse was not limited to resource extraction industries." It's not just a kitchen, but is name for a type of building. The article was copyedited by the GOCE. I have tried to reorganize it to address your concerns. --evrik ^(talk) 19:25, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I still think it would benefit from a tighter focus of the type I have suggested and more depth rather than a survey of places where food is prepared or eaten separately from other places. But I am not the reviewer so I will leave it to Whispyhistory and others to take it from here. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:32, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, @Philafrenzy:. @Whispyhistory:? --evrik ^(talk) 00:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Long enough, article has been amended and has room for expansion. Proposed hook with "miners" or any of the ALTs, with either image ok. I prefer ALT1. Whispyhistory (talk) 04:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)