Frequently asked questions

How do I write an interesting hook?

When will my nomination be reviewed?

This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below).

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.

If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.

To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:

• Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
• Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
• The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
• To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:

  Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.

  If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING  :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
• Save the page.
• After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.

How to promote an accepted hook

Handy copy sources: To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]] To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]] To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]] To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]] To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]] To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]] To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]

How to remove a rejected hook

• Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
• In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.

How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue

• Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
• Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
  • View the edit history for that page
  • Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
  • Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
• Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
• If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at
  WT:DYK
  asking someone else to do so.

How to move a nomination subpage to a new name

• Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.

Nominations

Articles created/expanded on October 29

Northern Territories Alcohol Labels Study

Example warning label

• ... that when '"Alcohol can cause cancer" warning labels were attached to retail products in the Yukon, there were claims that the warnings infringed the copyrights and trademarks of alcohol producers? Source: "The government cited the fear of lawsuit by industry associations for defamation or copyright infringement. " --https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-alcohol-warning-labels-study-results-1.5556344
  Lobbying groups representing Canada’s breweries, wineries and distilleries, Mr. Streicker said, suggested that the labels might harm their brands and asked about the territory’s legal right to apply them. The industry also suggested that putting stickers on their bottles and cans infringed trademarks, he said." --https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/world/canada/yukon-liquor-alcohol-warnings.html
  • ALT1: ... that four weeks after '"Alcohol can cause cancer" warning labels were attached to retail products in the Yukon, the government removed them, citing a lack of consent from product producers? Source: ""Unfortunately, it didn't have the consent of label owners," said Patch Groenewegen, manager of social responsibility, policy and planning with the Yukon Liquor Corp. [a government entity]" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-liquor-label-backlash-1.4466330
  • ALT2: ... that industry objections to '"Alcohol can cause cancer" warning labels on retail products may have produced a Streisand effect? Source: "Booze industry brouhaha over Yukon warning labels backfired... " https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/yukon-alcohol-warning-labels-study-results-1.5556344
    "By drawing attention to its own lobbying activities, the industry may have inadvertently increased public support for alcohol policies and helped to further broadcast the message that alcohol is a cause of cancer." https://www.jsad.com/doi/full/10.15288/jsad.2020.81.222
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Geology of Kimberley (Western Australia)
  • Comment: I'm still reading thru the academic and news coverage of this topic, and trying to write a balanced article from a decidedly non-neutral balance of reliable sources, in which many avoid speaking directly for fear of being sued. I will improve the article further and do a QPQ.

Created by HLHJ (talk). Self-nominated at 02:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• The QPQ for this nomination is now overdue. It should have completed within one week, as per the RfC on excessively late supply of QPQ credits. It would be a shame to see this nomination rejected. Please do the QPQ promptly. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 02:06, 16 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

• NOTE: I will do a full review when a QPQ is complete. Flibirigit (talk) 18:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, Flibirigit! I wasn't aware of that RFC; I thought my nom would just be ignored until I'd done a QPQ. I've done one. I'll now get on with the article expansion, I've found a bunch more sources; I hope to be done within a day, or two if I do some more reviews. HLHJ (talk) 02:10, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Great, I will check back here in a couple of days. Flibirigit (talk) 02:21, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• WP:LOWERCASE, a good article title might be Northern Territories alcohol labels study, unless multiple reliable sources capitalize everything. Any thoughts on using the sentence case for the article's title? Flibirigit (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • The most commen RS "title" seems to be "the Yukon study" which is a bit too vague, and inaccurate, as the control arm was not in the Yukon. The start-caps name seems to be what the researchers and lobbyists called it, including in research protocol descriptions; not exactly third-party independent sources, as they were written by researchers. No idea why journalists had an adversion to the term. I don't recall, nor with a quick skim can I find, another capitalization used in any source, and this capitalization is used in running text, as in "Northwestern University" and other multiword proper nouns. If a non-proper noun, the title would mean "study of alchohol labels in the Northern Territories", a broader scope, making it useful to havean indication that it is a proper noun. So on the whole I think this title best, faute de mieux. But I will keep my eye out for sources using other terms. HLHJ (talk) 00:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• I notice there is a long list of external links. These might be better labelled as Wikipedia:Further reading, instead of Wikipedia:External links. Any thoughts? Flibirigit (talk) 22:34, 18 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • I think you're right. I will convert it. Apologies for being behind my timetable, I got IRL issues, then sidetracked. I'll ping you when I've got it in order, which should be soon; I plan to get a fair amount of stuff out of notes and into article within a day. HLHJ (talk) 00:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Thank you for doing the QPQ. I will look for a comment here, then do the full review of this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 01:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • @HLHJ: any thoughts on when this is ready for a review? I'd like to go ahead by the weekend (November 26–27) if possible. Flibirigit (talk) 17:45, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
        • Sorry, I did in fact do extensive work on this over the last three days, but I realize I haven't posted any of it (I thought I'd posted at least a bit, but no, and you are right to nag). Getting MEDRS sourcing where appropriate, and finding yet more journal articles that are the product of it, and some more news sources, has lead to a fairly total rewrite. I should have written this complex article in draftspace, and maybe I should put my 2.0 verson there now. Thoughts? Finishing by this weekend should be doable. HLHJ (talk) 20:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
          • Okay, will return on the weekend. Flibirigit (talk) 21:02, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
            • I noticed many changes. Is the major update complete? Flibirigit (talk) 03:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
              • Reviewing..., will post a more complete review by tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 02:28, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - ?
• Neutral
  : N - ?
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: N - ?
• Interesting: Y

Overall:

Article created October 29 and nominated within seven days. Length is adequate. No plagiarism issues were detected. The earwig tool highlighted multiple areas, but those were quotes, and proper nouns which are not violations. The sourcing is mostly good, however some quotations are missing a citation. I have tagged the relevant places. Also, there are three images in the "Results" section which have unclear sources. I have several questions about neutrality. I notice that "Tim Stockwell" is mentioned three times within the "Label design", but it is unclear what position he holds, and if anything he says is relevant or important enough to quote verbatim. If he's not notable, perhaps paraphrasing is best. In the section "Threats", the following statement seems to be promotional towards a person with questionable notability; "Robert Solomon, a Canadian law professor with 40 years' experience specializing in drug and alcohol policy". The section "Lobbyist identities" contains a lengthy quote from Luke Harford, which might be best paraphrased since he has questionable notability. The hooks proposed are all reasonably interesting. I question whether ALT0 is properly cited in the article. The claims of copyright infringement are cited to here, but it fails verification since the cited source says "fear of lawsuit by industry associations for defamation or copyright infringement.", which is not the same. I am unsure where ALT1 is cited in the article. I cannot find it in the main body, but two sentences in the introdcution could be used to cite the hook. If cited in the introduction, both sentences need a citation. Currently just the second sentence is cited. I cannot locate a citation in the article for ALT2, and do not see Streisand effect mentioned. All images used in the article are in the public domain. The image for this nomination is clear at a low resolution, and used in the article. The QPQ requirement is in progress. Overall the article is a decent contribution and I hope to see it on the main page. Flibirigit (talk) 21:00, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

I entirely agree with Flibirigit's comments. The descrption of Solomon is paraphrased from the NYT (he also co-wrote a paper. later I think), and a better phrasing would be good; Tim Stockwell is a full professor and a lead researcher on the study, and I hadn't realized I hadn't mentioned it. I'll fix. A lot of the cns are wher I've cited two successive sentences to a ref at the end of the second one; I can duplicate. I also find the proportion of quotes exvessive; ot reflects the news sources, which avoid saying much in their own voice, presumably for fear of lawsuits. The balance, flow, coherence, hooks, and third-party assessments of results need work. I have been unavoidably and unexpectedly unable to spend much time on-wiki; I apologise for not watching this page and will work on this as soon as I can. (Redacted) 01:16, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. I will look for the changes to appear on my watchlist. Flibirigit (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Courtesy reminder posted on the nominator's talk page. Perhaps sending an e-mail will be the next step if no response. Flibirigit (talk) 14:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd say don't bother with an email, Flibirigit – if they don't respond to a talk page message in a timely manner, I'd say to just close it. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

HLHJ (talk · contribs), your progress on the article is noted. Please comment here when you're ready to continue the review. Flibirigit (talk) 17:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There are still three "citation needed" tags, and one "weasel words" tag. Flibirigit (talk) 14:04, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

@HLHJ:, I have not noticed any progress on this article since December 31. This nomination is now more than two months old, and it is increasingly likely that others will want to reject the nomination if not completed soon. It's close to the finish line, I hope you find the time for three citation needed tags and the one weasel tag. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 17:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you both (Narutolovehinata5 too) for the talk page pings, I'm afraid I've never gotten into the habit of using my watchlist. You're quite right, I got distracted into writing about weaving and spinning mechanisms (our textile content is surprisingly weak, systemic bias, I guess). The weasel-words tag is hard to succinctly clarify without misrepresenting the situation; I've been thinking that a wordy specific explaination in a footnote might be adequate to remove it. I'll make this the next thing I work on on Wikipedia, and finish it off before doing anything else (except replying to people). HLHJ (talk) 00:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

So I've now at least gotten rid of the templates. Not integrated all my notes yet, nor toned down the quotes, but some progress. HLHJ (talk) 03:49, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I will have a look at the changes later today, or by tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 12:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am working through this today. Apologies for the delay. Flibirigit (talk) 14:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@HLHJ:, in reviewing this today I notice that expansions to rectify sourcing issues have introduced other problems. I will continue to copyedit today, and tag some areas for clarification. Unfortunately none of my concerns on the hooks have been addressed. Please see the review above, as the hooks are the most important part of the nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 18:34, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Thank you. I think I've fixed the things you tagged, and made sure all non-attributed claims are third-party sourced (with exceptions for very unselfserving claims, like the "not statistically significant", which detail third-party review of the results ignored). I've also restructured a bit for clarity. I'll work on the rest, including the hooks. HLHJ (talk) 04:24, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, will look for the changes on my watchlist. Flibirigit (talk) 21:03, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on November 4

Charles Redd

A close-up portrait photograph of Charles Redd

• ... that Charles Redd (pictured), a rancher and member of the Utah State Legislature, moved to legalize horse racing and betting in 1925, only to make it illegal again two years later? Source: Arrington, Leonard J. (1995). Utah's audacious stockman, Charlie Redd. Logan, Utah: Utah State University Press. ISBN 0-87421-177-8. OCLC 31515461. pp 128-133
  • ALT1: ... that Charles Redd (pictured), a rancher and businessman from Utah, received the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire for his friendship with Lord Halifax? Source: Arrington, Leonard J. (1995). Utah's audacious stockman, Charlie Redd. Logan, Utah: Utah State University Press. ISBN 0-87421-177-8. OCLC 31515461. pp 165-168
  • Reviewed:

Created by Cjstirlbyu (talk). Self-nominated at 22:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - Needs a greater diversity of sources.
• Neutral
  : N - Tagged as needing more perspectives, which I agree with.
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: N - ALT0 hook needs to be cited following the sentence, not just at the end of the paragraph. AGF on the offline source.
• Interesting: Y

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed
  : N - Image does not have copyright information that matches its source.
• Used in article: Y
• Clear at 100px: Y

QPQ: N - Not done
Overall:

The ALT0 hook is interesting and cited, but the article clearly needs a lot of work. SounderBruce 06:24, 6 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

@SounderBruce: -- Thanks for the review; I've made some changes to the article to further improve it! I have added more information and corrected the copyright notice on the image page on Wikimedia Commons, and I've added citations immediately following the ALT0 hook, and have further clarified some of the information in that paragraph. I have also added additional citations to the rest of the article and changed some of the language to reflect a more neutral viewpoint. Since this article is within my first five DYK nominations, QPQ is not required. Let me know if any other changes need to be made! Cjstirlbyu (talk)

Well done on the improvements, but three's still some work to be done. The lack of outside perspectives is still an issue and would be bolstered by using coverage from out of the region (where the story of a quick repeal would have garnered some attention), while also looking at more critical commentary of his activities, both contemporary and modern. I don't think the picture fits very well, given it shows Redd long after the time of the bill's passing and repeal. SounderBruce 07:41, 12 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@SounderBruce: -- I've added a few more sources from outside of Utah on Redd and the bill's passing and repeal, as well as some more broad commentary on the rest of his life. There isn't a lot of modern commentary on his time in the legislature, given that he was only a member of the Utah House for a few years. I feel that the photo is appropriate for the article, however it's fine if we don't use it for the DYK. Let me know if I can change anything else!

Still has an outstanding tag for lack of viewpoints that I feel is a valid criticism. SounderBruce 08:33, 29 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi SounderBruce, could you elaborate? The person who originally put the "may not include all significant viewpoints" tag on put in the edit summary "sourcing continues to be overwhelmingly reliant on BYU-affiliated publications." The Arrington source that has many citations is published by Utah State University, which is not affiliated with BYU. The Alexander essay collection was published by the BYU university press, and constitutes 7 citations. What viewpoints do you feel are lacking? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 22:24, 29 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pinging @SounderBruce: Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 20:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In that case, the article is fine when it comes to independent viewpoints. I would like to see the citations cleaned up (currently the titles are just the paper name and page number, which is a jumbled mess) before giving final approval, Cjstirlbyu. SounderBruce 06:14, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks SounderBruce. The last name, year, and page number style of citation is one called shortened footnotes style (sfn). It is used on today's featured article, CSS Baltic. It is very helpful for being able to reference the exact page number of a book that is used multiple times as a reference. This page uses sfn style for books and more regular citation templates for items with a URL. For DYK, a certain style of footnote is not required. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 17:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To clarify, the newspaper citations are the ones that need cleanup. SounderBruce 20:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SounderBruce, I've cleaned up the newspaper citations—let me know if anything else needs to be done before the nomination can go through! Cjstirlbyu (talk) 22:57, 16 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• @Cjstirlbyu: The article is now in good shape, but upon a second look the hook needs to be shortened. By dropping some of the details, it would flow much better. SounderBruce 09:13, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ALT0a ... that Utah state representative Charles Redd (pictured) moved to legalize horse racing and betting in 1925, only to make it illegal again two years later?

@SounderBruce: How does this sound? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:28, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ALT0a works for me. SounderBruce 04:51, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

I'm sorry to have to reopen what's already a long discussion, but I don't believe this is in fit state for the main page. I happened to spot-check a random sentence, and found the sources didn't remotely support the content; I then did five more spot-checks of sources I could access, and only one of them was completely okay. I don't know if this is carelessness, too many people working on the article, or sources shoehorned in to address the lack of independent content raised above; but it needs to be fixed. Given the issues I've raised, I would not be comfortable featuring this until someone has done spot-checks and found no issues. Also: the hook is a bit of a problem. Redd didn't make racing illegal; he didn't have that authority. He proposed the bill which made it so, much as he proposed its legalization. Vanamonde (Talk) 01:08, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

Hello Vanamonde, I did find some issues with text-source integrity. In the cases you found, the source was further down in the paragraph, but it wasn't clear that it applied to the earlier material. Cjstirlbyu and I went through the page to check for the accuracy of the material and make its sourcing clearer. I think I added a little information like Redd's introduction of crested wheatgrass and being voted one of 29 stockmen of the century by a cattle newspaper. I looked for information on the environmental impact of Redd's ranching, because I'm certain that it has affected the environment in the La Sals, but I haven't found anything that concretely connects Redd's ranching to ecological problems (although general articles on how grazing permits were freely given in Utah's early days and their impact on the ecology exist). As for the hook, how does this sound?

ALT0b ... that Utah state representative Charles Redd (pictured) successfully proposed the legalization of horse racing and betting in 1925, only to successfully propose making it illegal again two years later? Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:28, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rachel Helps (BYU): Thanks for doing that; I know it can be trick for a student who may be relatively new to Wikipedia. Regardless, though, I would like to see a spotcheck by someone else before passing this myself. I can do one, but it may be a few days before I have the time. Other reviewers can of course step in if they wish. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:51, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on November 14

SailRail

• ... that a SailRail ticket lets you travel from any station in Britain to any in Ireland? Source: https://www.seat61.com/train-and-ferry-to-dublin.htm
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Henry Jackson (surveyor)
  • Comment: A genuine "Did you know" this one; when I've mentioned it to several people, they've said "'how cheap is that?"

Created by Ritchie333 (talk). Self-nominated at 23:39, 14 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• New enough and long enough. Sources inline look reliable enough for what they're citing. Verified the hook citation to the best of my ability (not familiar with UK rail transport, but looks fine). Earwig is clean. QPQ done. Looks like it should be good to go. Hog Farm _Talk 03:27, 16 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @
    Forgive me, but I'm a little lost on the scope of the topic. Is SailRail the common name of the ticket? The name of the company that distributes them? Or is it multiple companies that sell this type of ticket? If it's a single organization or similar, I'm wondering if the hook and article are a little promotional... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 18:56, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]
    • I'd assumed when reading the article that it was a single ticket made through an arrangement between several different companies. Hog Farm _Talk 19:08, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's a type of ticket, that you can buy from any British station; you can use any train service or ferry you choose with it, provided it's relevant. Similar to a Travelcard. The only possible way this article could be promoting it is comparing it against flying. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I'm a little concerned that "SailRail" isn't actually what it's called. Looking through the sources, I see "SailRail", "Sail-Rail", "Sail Rail", "Rail / Sail", "Sail and Rail" and "Sail & Rail". We don't want to be taking a generic descriptive term and elevating one version of it as the officially wiki-sanctioned version. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:31, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think "SailRail" is the formal term, as that's what gets printed on the ticket, and what I think the

common name should be. The fact that multiple sources refer to it slightly differently is an indication of its relative obscurity, which is why we haven't had an article on it until now. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:05, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

We really need something more concrete than "I think that's the formal term". Lots of things get printed on tickets, that doesn't make the ticket a

WP:RS

. Also, how is it being relatively obscure different from it being not notable?

@

WP:COMMONNAME), let me propose that using SailRail as the article title and in the hook would be fine, as long as you add something to the article explaining that it's a generic term covering a number of similar services known by various similar names. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:33, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Just seen the discussion on this at Talk. I have access to specialist sources and may be able to assist. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 13:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron, Hog Farm, and RoySmith: Various additions/tweaks now made following on from the discussion at T:T/DYK, particularly by clarifying that SailRail is the brand used between Britain and Ireland and that other similar schemes are not directly linked. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 15:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• While I think the original hook wording is intriguing, doesn't it sound vaguely promotional? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A promotional hook would be something like "Go far beyond your usual stop with a Rail and Sail ticket. Head for the wilderness of the Outer Hebrides, the history of Shetland or the buzz of Belfast – that one ticket holds the key to countless adventures." which is how the ScotRail website describe it. If you mean I want to "promote" SailRail in as much as I want more people to use it, showing it's a viable alternative for sitting in an uncomfortable departure lounge for 3 hours before being told your flight is 2 hours late ..... then I guess so. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:04, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I'm willing to review this. Target is next 24 hours. starship.paint (exalt) 16:04, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comments by starship.paint (exalt)

• The source quoted in this DYK nomination should be put inline within the article.
• Article says: The ticket is a joint scheme between Transport for Wales Rail, Iarnród Éireann, Irish Ferries, Stena Line, Northern Ireland Railways and ScotRail. Source says: SailRail is an alliance of Iarnród Éireann, UK Train Operating Companies and Ferry Companies operating on the Irish Sea. Article seems to go further than the source.
• Article says: Unlike some international train routes, they are not connecting services. Don't think the bolded part is in the source.
• Article says: SailRail competes against budget airlines - don't think that is in the Belfast Telegraph source.
• Article says: ... following the 2010 eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull which grounded all European flights. Virgin Trains increased their London to Holyhead trains from five to ten cars in response. Don't think the source really says that Eyjafjallajökull was the specific cause, source just says Indeed, not so long ago just five cars of the 09:10 from Euston went all the way to Holyhead; now Virgin Trains send the whole 10-car train. - may have been due to general increased demand.
• Article says: Historically, SailRail (then known as BritRail) tickets - I'm not convinced that BritRail is SailRail. Source says: Stena SeaLink and BritRail offer rail travel to New Haven, ship passage to Dieppe, then a train to Paris. [...] BritRail service to Dover, a ship to Calais, a train to Paris. Presence of Stena SeaLink seems to indicate that BritRail is really just for the train ride.
• Article says" The Dover to Calais scheme was discontinued following the opening of the Channel Tunnel in 1994, though it is still possible to travel as a foot passenger. I really don't think this is backed up by the source, which says: The railway stations at Dover Western Docks and Calais Maritime closed when Eurostar started in 1994, so you can no longer simply walk off the train and onto the ferry as you used to. The journey now involves a taxi or long walk between the station and the ferry terminal in Dover and a bus or taxi in Calais, so a train-ferry-train journey that took only 7 or 8 hours in the 1930s (or for that matter, the 1980s) takes 11 hours today. You need to buy separate tickets for the British train, ferry & French train, because London to Paris through tickets ceased to exist in 2007.
• Don't have access to Journal of the Transport Ticket Society so I'll just AGF.

@Ritchie333: - see above. Also as a courtesy - notify Hassocks5489. starship.paint (exalt) 14:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

- right now, based on the above. Please ping me if there is any update. starship.paint (exalt) 14:12, 28 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

• ... that... in 1998, Chris Lewis and forty other anti-spam volunteers started an unsuccessful boycott with the goal of crashing computer servers with unfiltered spam? Source: Wired
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Expanded fivefold

Created by Vortex3427 (talk). Self-nominated at 10:49, 16 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: ?
• Interesting: Y

QPQ: ?
Overall:

@Ktin: This is the nominator's second nomination so a QPQ is not required. Sending another ping to Vortex3427 in case they missed the above review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:42, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The part about there being forty volunteers is mentioned in this article. Will try to reword this hook shortly—in retrospect, the "crashing computer servers with unfiltered spam" was more of a predicted side effect then a goal.— VORTEX³⁴²⁷ (Talk!) 01:02, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Probably needs another reviewer. BorgQueen (talk) 17:15, 13 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

• With due respect, I do not see why a new reviewer is needed. I have been waiting for a revised hook from @Vortex3427:. I noticed the QPQ comment from Narutolovehinata earlier. Ktin (talk) 16:52, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh ok sorry. I thought you had lost interest lol. BorgQueen (talk) 00:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No worries. Happy editing. Ktin (talk) 04:21, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I'm striking the proposed hook as it is inaccurate and confusing. The goal was not to crash servers, the goal was to get ISPs to filter spam instead of relying on volunteers to do the work. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:56, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• ... ALT1... that in 1998, Chris Lewis and forty other anti-spam volunteers started an unsuccessful boycott with the goal of convincing internet service providers to filter spam? Source: Wired

• This is accurate. But, does this one read too verbose? Any chance at precis-ing a bit? Ktin (talk) 16:54, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ktin: ... ALT1a... that in 1998, Chris Lewis led an unsuccessful boycott with the goal of convincing internet service providers to filter spam?

Like this? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:20, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: -- does not read right. Unsuccessful boycott of "what"? Ktin (talk) 17:12, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ktin: How is this?

• ALT2: ... that in 1998, Chris Lewis led a strike on Usenet, but at least one volunteer refused to stop fighting spam? Source: Wired Cielquiparle (talk) 21:39, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on November 17

Serie A Player of the Month

• ... that no player has won the Serie A Player of the Month award on two consecutive months or in the same season but Papu Gómez and Cristiano Ronaldo are the only players to win two in one calendar year? Source: https://www.legaseriea.it/it/award/ea-sports-player-of-the-month
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gene Cipriano
  • Comment:

5x expanded by Dr Salvus (talk). Self-nominated at 21:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - see comments
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

QPQ: N - Not done
Overall:

@Dr Salvus: Good article. However, i feel as if there needs to be more citations before this proceeds. The end of the second paragraph and third paragraph needs a citation. Multiple winners, awards won by club, and awards won by nationality also need citations. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:15, 22 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

Onegreatjoke, does it go well now? Source 3 is for the whole lead. Dr Salvus 14:15, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Dr Salvus I still need citations for multiple winners, awards won by nationality, and awards won by club. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:32, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:CALC. Dr Salvus 05:59, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Dr Salvus Assuming that, I will approve this now. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:09, 25 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @Dr Salvus
  : The cited source doesn't actually say anything that supports the facts asserted in the hook. Can you provide a more specific citation?

-- RoySmith (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:CALC 2.0. You can see the source and notice only those two won the trophy. If you see the source, you can make four calculations and obtain the info. Couldn't find anything that says the textual words. Dr Salvus 17:47, 30 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Perhaps we're not looking at the same source? I'm looking at https://www.legaseriea.it/it/award/ea-sports-player-of-the-month. I don't see where it even mentions either of those names. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:12, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You need to search for the previous seasons (2019–20 and 2020–21)! Dr Salvus 09:04, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm sorry, that's not a good enough citation. Even with your hints I can't find the information to support the stated fact. If you can't come up with a better citation for this, you'll need to write a different hook. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:08, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The source does say who won the trophies and in what month they did. If you read the entire list of winners, you'll see my hook is supported. Dr Salvus 16:41, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here from

WP:CALC wouldn't cover it. Off to investigate the sources now, will return shortly. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:08, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

I also just noticed this still needs QPQ. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:11, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm seeing Gene Cipriano (nom) in the comment field? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:13, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

OK, now I see it. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:14, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, so it does seem like the table checks out – Gómez and Ronaldo both have two MVP wins in 2020 (I'm not sure why the sub-awards aren't listed), one under the 2019–2020 season and one under the 2020–2021 season. I assume that's what Dr Salvus was driving for? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:17, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some thoughts. Firstly, the date sorting in the table is set up wrong; it needs to be based on

WP:CALC is a reasonable argument. That said, thirdly I need to point out that the article currently fails rule D2 of the supplementary guidelines. We cannot have unsourced sections. The sources need to be repeated for the bottom three tables. Schwede66 01:34, 2 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

it looks like to have been fixed. Dr Salvus 11:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Right, I might just have found a solution for the source problems, or at least a partial one. On Serie A's own YouTube channel, there are several playlists containing a video for each Player of the Month from each season, including the 2019-20 campaign (which first introduced the prize). I'll provide all the links right here, hopefully all of you can access them. 2019-20 (actually, I could only find this round-up video); 2020-21; 2021-22; 2022-23. Please let me know if they're useful! Oltrepier (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:NLIST; otherwise this list may be nominated for deletion, and these days there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for these types of lists, even among members of WikiProject Football. Cielquiparle (talk) 07:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• ... that Casey Newton's reporting of Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter led to at least two employees learning through Newton's tweets that they were laid off? Source: https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/twitter-contract-workers-learn-they-have-been-fired-by-reading-tweets-of-others-9520001.html
  • ALT1: ... that through Casey Newton's reporting of the acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk, at least two employees had learned that they had been laid off from his tweets?
  • ALT2: ... that Casey Newton had informed at least two Twitter employees that they had been laid off by tweets through his reporting of Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter?
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: First DYK nomination! I'm proud of the article. The intention in the hook is to say that the tweets by Newton were the tipoff to the employees learning that they were laid off, not just his reporting.

Moved to mainspace by SWinxy (talk). Self-nominated at 01:58, 20 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Overall:

@SWinxy: Good article. Hook is interesting, sources seem good, and no QPQ is required. Onegreatjoke (talk) 00:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

In theory, Money Control could have verified the stories independently, but I would expect a line like "We independently verified that these were former Twitter employees who first heard about their being fired this way."

How would a slight hook change be?

ALT2: ... that Casey Newton's reporting of Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter may have been the first way some ex-Twitter employees learned they were laid off?

OR

ALT3: ... that Casey Newton's reporting on the effects of content moderation on workers has led to a contracting company cutting ties with Facebook? Source: I assume good faith on the Hertz book source.

@SWinxy and Amakuru: = paul2520 💬 19:39, 3 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Paul2520: Hi Paul. I have been spending less time on Wikipedia and so I forgot to reply. I'd be okay with either of those, with ALT2 > ALT3. SWinxy (talk) 23:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: or @Amakuru:, would you re-review with ALT2 or ALT3? = paul2520 💬 19:29, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Comment. Like others, I'm not that comfortable with the fact that we're citing Moneycontrol (sketchy reputation per WP:RS Noticeboard) and BGR (owned by Penske Media Corp, says it likes accurate reporting, but article essentially sourced to anonymous "company sources" and a random tweet reply) for the hook and in the article. It's also a shame because in fact... There is quite a bit of other secondary coverage (in sources considered reliable enough by WP standards) about Casey Newton's reporting of the ongoing employee-related drama at Twitter! So I think a hook similar to ALT2 might work, or you could have a hook stating that all these other news outlets relied heavily on what Casey Newton is reporting (without getting bogged down in having to vouch for the accuracy of what he was reporting). Regardless, I think in order to do justice to Casey Newton, a bit more additional research, content, and sourcing is required in the article. (I was starting to paste some article links, but a quick Wikipedia Library search yields 139 hits, so there is a lot to choose from.) Cielquiparle (talk) 23:40, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:ERRORS. Unless someone is willing to fix the issues with sourcing in the article, and possibly expand it a bit further, it seems like a fair candidate to be disqualified for the main page. Cc: SWinxy, Paul2520 Cielquiparle (talk) 06:44, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• ... that in 1676 Benjamin Tompson was the first poet in the American colonies to have his poems printed and published?  Sources:  Hall, 1924, p. 22;  Wroth, 1938, p. 258;  Fussell, 1953, p. 494
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/María Elva Pinckert
  • Comment: Statements and sources supporting hook can be found in the 'Vocations' section

Created by Gwillhickers (talk). Self-nominated at 00:10, 27 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: Y
• Interesting: Y
• Other problems: N - Other problems

Overall:

@Gwillhickers: Good article. However, the hook and what's in the article don't exactly seem to match up in a way that bothers me. For example, in the article it says "the first collection of American poems to be printed in what is the American colonies" while the hook says "was the first poet in the American colonies to have his poems printed and published". I feel like the hook should be a bit more specific here because of that. I'm being picky here because of how DYK is with "First" hooks. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

• @Onegreatjoke: — Thanks for your thorough review. Sorry about the delay - was under the weather for a few days there. I added the following statement to the lede, and it already occurs in the Vocation section. Hope this works for all concerned. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:27, 1 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ALT1  ...Benjamin Tompson (pictured) is credited for being the first native born poet to emerge in North-America?   < Hall, 1924, pp. 1, 22 >< Fussell, 1953, p. 494 >

Approving Alt1. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:10, 3 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

@Gwillhickers and Onegreatjoke: the first published native born poet, though, right? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 04:07, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Yes, in order to establish the idea of 'first poet' you have to establish the idea in terms of tangible evidence -- published works. Otherwise, all historians would have is a speculation or an assumption that Tompson was the first at anything. See: <Wroth, 1938, p. 258> <Hall, 1924, p. 13> <Fussell, 1953, p. 500> -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Pinging @Theleekycauldron, Gwillhickers, and Onegreatjoke: Need clarity on hooks and agreement of those involved, I am not seeing that all issues have been resolved. Bruxton (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• How about an ALT1a: ... that Benjamin Tompson (pictured) is credited as the first native born published poet to emerge in North America? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  theleekycauldron The end of ALT1a gets wordy with the alliteration. Also the hook leads me to believe he is a Native American; but he's not a native in the way many would refer to natives. Bruxton (talk) 01:55, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  I see nothing wrong with ALT1, which reads "native born poet", and is well sourced. Most Indians, then and now, didn't/don't consider themselves as an American of any kind. "Native-American" was a term invented by white politicians to placate their critics and other constituents, and more than suggests that the generations of settlers and their descendants who were born and raised in America are native to no country. If this causes anyone to get confused all they have to do is read the lede to the article, which makes it perfectly clear that Tompson wasn't an Indian. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 02:18, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  I mean, that's not wrong, but "native born" does give the wrong connotation. I think using

  American colonies from the ALT0 would work well. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 22:52, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

  ]

• This is the term the sources use, and used in the proper context doesn't imply anything wrong, imo. Again, the lede, not to mention the article, makes things clear. Also, I have to say, it's wrong that the term "native" has been reserved, by some people, for only one race of people, as if other lives don't matter. We could always use the original hook if someone is going to make a big issue over matters of opinion. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 23:36, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Removed my objection and placed leeky sig in correct place. Promoting ALT1 Bruxton (talk) 18:40, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Article contains too-close paraphrasing. Compare for example "Like other poets, Tompson developed his writing by patient practice during hours not involved with his teaching responsibilities" with "Tompson, like other early poets, developed his craft by patient practice during hours unoccupied by his classroom responsibilities", or "definitive example of cultivated standard of achievement in verse in New England in the late seventeenth century" with "represents the cultivated standard of achievement in verse in New England in the late seventeenth century". Nikkimaria (talk) 17:41, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

@Nikkimaria: I was not aware of this - you have moved this from the prep but you did not ping any of the involved parties (@Theleekycauldron, Gwillhickers, and Onegreatjoke:. You have placed the close paraphrasing banner on the article but it would be far more helpful to help fix the issue. Bruxton (talk) 00:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Bruxton: this appears to be a recurring problem on Gwillhickers' DYK noms – fixing it is probably not a reasonable ask for an admin copypatroller (my bad, i could've sworn!) with lots more to do. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: they are not an admin. But I guess this one is kaput now. Bruxton (talk) 03:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Nikkimaria, Bruxton, Onegreatjoke, and Theleekycauldron: — The phrases in question have been reworded. Bearing in mind
CLOP: "Limited close paraphrasing is also appropriate if there are only a limited number of ways to say the same thing."
It would seem the phrase, "cultivated standard of achievement in verse" is one such example. I had always thought that some similarities were allowed in such cases when used in the context of one's own words, which has always been the case. In any event, I've gone through the article and checked for other issues. If anyone sees something I may have missed please bring it to my attention. If there are no more issues I'm hoping to get this Nom back on track. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It is always possible to directly quote unique turns of phrase like that one. But again, direct copying is not the only problem to avoid. Consider this example: "Tompson lived to the age of seventy-two, during which time he had the opportunity to produce a good deal of poetry over a period of fifty-five years. From the 1658 poem on Samuel Arnold to his last work in 1713, Tompson wrote at least twenty-nine poems" vs the source's "Because he lived to the age of seventy-two, Tompson had the opportunity to produce a good deal of poetry over a long period of time. In the fifty-five years of his productivity, from the 1658 poem on Samuel Arnold to his "last lines" of 1713, Tompson wrote at least twenty-nine poems". There are pieces of this that are truly

limited - but placed in the context of others that are only slightly altered, the whole still consists of close paraphrasing. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:30, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

The statement has been reworded and simplified. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 00:52, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• @Onegreatjoke: Would you give the article another review so we can wrap this up? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:29, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Honestly, I think I'm going to give this review to someone else as I lack confidence in reviewing this. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:35, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• ... that atrocities committed at the Arun gas field led to a lawsuit against ExxonMobil that the energy company has stalled for over twenty years? Source: ExxonMobil bid to end Indonesia lawsuit found ‘meritless’ Aljazeera 5-Aug-2022
  • Reviewed: QPQ not required (3rd nom)

5x expanded by Larataguera (talk). Self-nominated at 03:01, 28 November 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Reviewing. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 07:05, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Overall:

@Larataguera: Based on the NPOV criteria, I feel the hook should be revised to say "alleged atrocities" since this involves an ongoing court case that has not rendered a verdict on ExxonMobil's complicity in the atrocities. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 17:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

Hi Arsonal, it's true there's a subtle difference between "not denying" and "acknowledging." I missed that, and I'll fix that sentence. As for the hook, the source says that Since the end of the civil war in 2005, the government-backed Truth and Reconciliation Commission (KKR) and the Commission for Disappeared and Victims of Violence (KontraS) have extensively documented abuses committed by the Indonesian military both around Arun field and across Aceh. I don't think there's any question that the atrocities occurred, and so it would be misleading to say "alleged atrocities". (That is, we would not be misrepresenting the source if the hook read "... that extensively documented atrocities ...!)

So to be clear, what is "alleged" (and yet to be ruled in the lawsuit) is Exxon's responsibility for the atrocities (under US law). Not the atrocities themselves.

Larataguera (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks, Larataguera. I agree that the sources point to atrocities being committed, but a reader with no knowledge of the context (which is the point of DYK) and just reading the hook without any antecedent of who committed the atrocities would imply the atrocities were committed by ExxonMobil, resulting in the lawsuit. But, as your source states, the atrocities were in fact committed by the military. I propose the following:

• ALT1: ... that atrocities committed by the Indonesian military at the Arun gas field operated by ExxonMobil led to a lawsuit against the oil company that has stalled for over twenty years?

Let me know what you think. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 23:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks Arsonal for this suggestion. It seems like anyone who reads much of anything into the hook will just click on it and find all the information they need. The point is to create interest. I think Alt0 is factual and would get more clicks than Alt1, which I think is a little too long and gives too much information.

If you strongly feel Alt0 is unacceptable, how about

• Alt2: ... that victims of atrocities committed at Arun gas field allege ExxonMobil's responsibility in a lawsuit that the energy company has stalled for 20 years? Larataguera (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That works for me.

Approve ALT2. Thanks for working with me, Larataguera. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 06:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Per Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep 1: Arun gas field (nom). SL93 (talk) 16:43, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

I suppose that if people are insistent that the atrocities be "alleged" (per concerns at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Prep 1: Arun gas field (nom)), then the hook could read:

• Alt3:... that alleged atrocities at the Arun gas field are extensively documented and the subject of a lawsuit against ExxonMobil that has stalled for over 20 years?

I think this is a bit wordy, but could meet people's concerns that we not describe the atrocities to have occurred in wikivoice, while not mis-representing the situation as being more uncertain than it actually is? Larataguera (talk) 18:37, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• • Reviewer needed to check Alt3. Referenced discussion that caused this to be pulled from prep is now at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 188#Prep 1: Arun gas field (nom). Striking prior hooks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:49, 14 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]
    • I don't see ALT3 as a substantial improvement on ALT2 – the wikivoice is pretty much still there, and calling them "extensively documented" reads like a nudge towards its validity (I don't think that was intended, of course). theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:01, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on November 28

Pyotr Masherov

• ... that Pyotr Masherov pursued a rapid modernisation of Minsk that resulted in the destruction of much of the original town that survived WW2? Source: Ioffe, Emmanuel (2008). From Myasnikov to Malofeyev: the Rulers of the BSSR. Minsk. p. 138.
  • ALT1: ... that under Pyotr Masherov the Belarusian agricultural industry expanded their grain harvest from 2.3 million to 7.3 million, over the 3x the original amount? Source: Dzyemyantsyey, Mikalay. Respect for Business. p. 116. , Vecherko, G. N. He Did Not Show Himself, and Did Not Utter Incantations. p. 240.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Iowa Cow War

Improved to Good Article status by Mupper-san (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 20:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• I made a very minor edit to directly source the sentence from which your first hook derives; I learned that was a requirement just a couple weeks ago. Otherwise, the article is an outstanding little work of biography and I was happy to see the GA review process was similarly painless. All requirements done (I have AGF on offline source) and both hooks are sufficiently interesting, though I think Masherov's regret would be an enhancing addition to the first hook. Great job to both nominator and improver! Hope to see more from both. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @
    I'm happy to assume good faith on a book source i can't access – I'm less happy to assume good faith on a book I can't prove... exists? Searches for the title of Respect for Business, in both English and Google Translated-Belarussian, turn up nothing, and the book citations don't come with dates or links. Also, Mikalay Dzyemyantsyey wasn't a scholar, he was the chairman of the Belarusian Supreme Soviet. Is his word reliable? And who was Vecherko? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 11:33, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]

pinging @Mupper-san: since he knows the sources better than I do. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:31, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron:: You (unfortunately) won't find it in Belarusian - it's part of a collection of texts titled Pyotr Masherov: Epoch and Fate. On the 100th Anniversary of his Birth, a Collection of Articles and Texts (Russian: Петр Машеров. Эпоха и судьба. К 100-летию со дня рождения. Сборник статей и воспоминаний.), and to my knowledge hasn't been published on its own. Additionally, I would call Dzyemyantsyey reliable given he was a witness to events occurring under Masherov's rule. Lastly, Vecherko is (I believe) Valentin Vechyorko [ru], a Belarusian historian and opposition politician. Mupper-san (talk) 19:00, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mupper-san: I see – not sure why it would be G. N., then. Who published Dzyemyantsyey's book? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron:: There is also the possibility (which is more likely now, looking at it) that it was Valentin Vechyorko's father, Grigory Nikolayevich Vechyorko (Russian: Григорий Николаевич Вечёрко) - himself an advisor to Masherov, deputy head of Gosplan in Belarus, and a member of the KGB. Dzyemyantsyey's text (Which is actually in a separate collection, a mistake on my part as the two are similarly anthologies of first-hand accounts and historical analysis) was published by the League for the Assistance to Enterprises Association (Russian: Ассоциация "Лига содействия оборонным предприятиям) The collection which Dzyemyantsyey's memoirs are actually part of is Pyotr Masherov, Son of the Belarusian Nation: Memoirs and Articles on his 95th Birth Anniversary (Russian: Сын белорусского народа Петр Машеров. К 95-летию со дня рождения. воспоминания и статьи. Mupper-san (talk) 00:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mupper-san: Aha, gotcha. Is the publisher reputable for historical content? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:28, 17 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: I can't really testify as to any knowledge of the publisher, but I can say that many of the authors included in it were people who had some experience with his leadership, among them various social, academic, and cultural figures during the period. Additionally is the fact that sizeable portions of content (for example, Masherov being referred to as a "genuine communist" or similarly described as being a genuine adherent of communism compared to his equivalents during the Era of Stagnation). As an addendum, Dzyemyantsyey would likely have expertise in regards to agriculture as he was head of the agricultural department of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Byelorussia from 1977 (see here). And my sincerest apologies for not replying earlier - it must have completely slipped my mind! Mupper-san (talk) 07:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hmm. I know that public officials have a lot of first hand experience, but that doesn't make them reliable for the content they produce – public officials still have agendas and alliances, even after leaving office. If the publisher doesn't have a reputation for historical content, I'm not entirely convinced that we're dealing with a reliable source for the figures. No worries on the response time :) I'm rather swamped and bonked myself. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 4

WCPN

• ... that one listener was shocked to hear "Erotic City" instead of contemporary Christian music on an Ohio radio station? Source: "Christian radio station changes format: WZLE now belts out pop, rock". May 22, 1999. The Morning Journal. Lorain, Ohio. p. D1.
  • ALT1: ... that readers of The Plain Dealer disagreed with a favorable 2002 review of the Tivoli Audio PAL as it could not reliably tune in an Ohio radio station? Source: "More tales of Tivoli tuners". October 10, 2002. The Plain Dealer. Cleveland, Ohio. p. E10.
  • Reviewed: QPQ exempt

Improved to Good Article status by Nathan Obral (talk). Self-nominated at 06:19, 10 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Reviewing... Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• @Nathan Obral: Good article but I feel as if you could choose a better hook. These hooks are ok but I feel as if better ones could be made. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @Onegreatjoke: I wrote ALT0 while trying to help Nathan figure out a good hook (I didn't do any substantive edits on the actual article). A lot of the options here are wordy and boring. I have experience with hooks like this and how to avoid them. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:52, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• @
  Well, it's certainly a shame this has languished so – let's take look. New enough, positively massive, neutral, and plagiarism-free; a little concerned about the use of Fybush.com as a source, it looks like a selfpubbed blog. Not a big fan of either of the hooks; the first is a listener complain, I imagine those aren't uncommon, even if this does get a few clicks by bringing up sexuality and religion. The second seems to fall a little flat. QPQ is not required, so it seems we've got a few small issues to work out. Great job so far! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @Theleekycauldron: Scott Fybush is a subject matter expert who has been published in several notable broadcast publications (Radio World, Current). One of the handful of people I'd trust as an SMX in American broadcasting. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 21:15, 21 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • @Nathan Obral: in deference to Sammi Brie, sourcing checks out, but new hooks are still needed. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:02, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 10

Ludwig's subathon

Ludwig Ahgren in 2021

• ... that Ludwig Ahgren livestreamed for 31 days instead of 24 hours due to his appendectomy? Source: https://legacy.upcomer.com/video-shattering-records-in-his-sleep-how-ludwigs-subathon-broke-twitch/
  • ALT1: ... that "thousands of viewers" watched Ludwig Ahgren shower during his 31-day continuous livestream? Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-19/twitch-streamer-ludwig-never-ending-stream/100017600
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Starbucks Red Cup

Improved to Good Article status by PerfectSoundWhatever (talk). Self-nominated at 01:22, 10 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Reviewing... Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:55, 10 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

QPQ: N - Not done
Overall:

@PerfectSoundWhatever: Good article. Article is sourced and the hook is interesting. Just waiting on a QPQ now. Onegreatjoke (talk) 05:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

• Redoing the @PerfectSoundWhatever:. Note to Onegreatjoke — pings don't work if you don't sign the post in the same edit. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can't believe I forgot to sign my post. Onegreatjoke (talk) 05:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• I'm watching this page so no worries, still saw the review! Thank you for the ping anyways. Will get the QPQ done soon. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 05:20, 11 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• @Onegreatjoke: QPQ done. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 16:30, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alright, approving. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• Comment: I have checked this one out and it is ready to be promoted. Presently prep 3 has 4 male hooks, so it will have to wait. Bruxton (talk) 01:42, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• @
  I've pulled this from prep following a discussion at WT:DYK that identified a sourcing question – also, consensus on a hook should be achieved before repromotion. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 11:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • Alright, I'll make a list of the current proposed hooks:
• ALT0 ... that Ludwig Ahgren's planned 24-hour livestream was postponed – so he continuously livestreamed for 31 days instead? source
• ALT1 ... that Ludwig Ahgren livestreamed for 31 days after his 24-hour livestream was postponed by his appendectomy? source
• ALT2 ... that Ludwig Ahgren grossed US$1,434,850 for continuously livestreaming his life for 31 days? source
• ALT3 ... that Ludwig Ahgren showered on camera during his 31-day continuous livestream? source
  • ALT0 and 1 are similar. They are sourced on Upcomer, which is reliable based on the weak consensus at
    WP:RSP, is considered reliable for entertainment-related topics, but should not be used for controversial statements related to living persons. I disagree what it sources (the amount of money he grossed) is controversial, especially since he shared the figure in a video. If a third party checks these hooks and finds that all of the sourcing issues are justified, I will look for new hooks afterwards. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 18:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]

• ... that Elizabeth Mary Wells fitted a girl for a prosthetic arm for Christmas, having cut it off six years earlier?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Joseph Stephen Paduano
  • Comment: for Christmas

Moved to mainspace by Lauraosull (talk). Nominated by Kingsif (talk) at 23:54, 20 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Overall:

Article is new enough and long enough, is neutral and is plagiarism free. Hook is cited and interesting. QPQ is done. However, in terms of sourcing - the majority of those mentioned seem to be primary sources from the Church Missionary Society (which I can't access), and one secondary source Europeans in East Africa (which is about her husband). I'm concerned that although the article is well-written and detailed, it depends too much on primary material which does not necessarily establish her own notability. (I am loathe to say this, as most of the pages I start are for women!) I think to approve it, I'd need to hear which of the Church Missionary Society sources contribute to her notability, not just background to her life. Also, the page needs to be de-orphaned, there's two citations missing, the quotes need attributions, and it needs some categories adding. Lajmmoore (talk) 10:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

• @Lajmmoore: While I looked over the article and am confident of two independent sources for GNG, I don't have any knowledge of the sources you ask about. The article is a WikiEd product that the student is still working on, and I don't want to mess with their "work" until their class is over. It is a stupid system, but at least we have a well-written article in this case. I, separately, don't think being an orphan or uncategorised is a barrier to DYK. But if there are outstanding issues, I probably can't address them. Happy for this to be closed if that's the case, and I'll either find another article to nom or ask to use another of mine for the Christmas set. Kingsif (talk) 18:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Kingsif - which were the two sources you'd identifed for GNG? (In hope I can change my mind!) I just looked at the toolkit the new editors are given, and they don't get told about article categories or de-orphaning, so I can see better why that's not been done. The course page says the final week ended 10 December, so I think we can help and it be OK - @Helaine (Wiki Ed):, @Brianda (Wiki Ed):, @Ian (Wiki Ed):, @Breamk: what do you think? Lajmmoore (talk) 10:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just leaving a tag for @Lauraosull: & the message I left on their talk page here. If you could leave a note on the sources that prove notability here, that would be great! Lajmmoore (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Lajmmoore: In this edit I note which sources I thought fit, but also that the urls are all student-user log-ins, and are time-restricted. Needs work, there, too. Kingsif (talk) 00:27, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Kingsif I can now approve the hook - Laurosull explained (on the talk page & on her usertalk) that three of the sources supported notability, so I am much more confident in the sourcing of the article now. Good to go. Lajmmoore (talk) 08:08, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Reopened due to incomplete sourcing and notability concerns.[2] Gatoclass (talk) 13:50, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

• I have given it a very thorough copyedit. The only outstanding issue is the same thing I mentioned the first time, @Lauraosull:; that many of the refs point to urls that are student-login blocked (i.e. if you used school access and just copied the url, nobody else can see it). Is it possible for you to re-access the sources and change the refs to have general bibliographic detail (how you would cite it in a term paper) - preferably including page numbers where the sources are long or detailed. Kingsif (talk) 05:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 17

Woman to Woman (campaign)

• ... that Harriet Harman's Pink Bus was originally said to have been magenta or fuchsia? Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2015-32498961
  • ALT1: ... that there was some debate whether or not Harriet Harman's campaign bus was pink, magenta or fuchsia? Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2015-32498961
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: This is my first ever nomination. I thought I should try it out.

Created by Moondragon21 (talk). Self-nominated at 11:44, 18 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

Overall:

Article covers all the necessary criteria for DYK. Confirmed QPQ not required (user has 4 previous credits but first time nominating themselves). Happy to pass this one. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:30, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply

• @
  the article doesn't really make it clear what the debate actually is, or who said it to be magenta or fuchsia. Could more context be added? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:18, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

  theleekycauldron ALT2 ... that Harriet Harman's Pink Bus was mocked by critics for resembling a Barbie bus, which was thought to be sexist and patronizing? SL93 (talk) 08:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  @SL93: hmmm... possibly a gen4a violation against Harman? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  theleekycauldron Possibly, but that is the context. There seems to be nothing much to work with beyond the controversy so I suggest closing the nomination if nothing else can be found soon. SL93 (talk) 02:19, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Hmm, I guess we could just leave out her name... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • ALT3 ... that the 2015 "Woman to Woman" campaign included a "Pink Bus" that was mocked by critics as sexist and patronizing?

    SL93, theleekycauldron, I was surprised how little there was to the article beyond the critics; not even an examination of whether it was effective in the constituencies that the bus visited. (Is there a reason that ALT3 has "Pink Bus" in quotes, rather than just a regular lowercase pink bus? (Harmon acknowledged that it was pink, according to the article.) If you think that any of the hooks can fly, then a reviewer should be requested. If not, then this should probably be closed; the original nominator has not posted here in a month and a half. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:55, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 22

Chauncey Yellow Robe

Yellow Robe (center) starring as Chief Chetoga in The Silent Enemy

• ... that Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) denounced Wild West shows, and later starred in a 1930 film consisting solely of Native American actors? Source: Source for denouncing Wild West shows: [3]
• ALT1: ... that Rosebud Yellow Robe convinced her father, Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (both pictured), to star in 1930 historical drama The Silent Enemy? Source: Page 264 [4]
• ALT2: ... that Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) was forced into a Pennsylvanian boarding school at 16, wearing "full Indian costume" and not knowing a word of English? Source: In his own words: [5]
  Same thing written on a form given to the school (Carlisle Indian Academy in PA): [6]
• ALT3: ... that in 1927, Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) "adopted" President Calvin Coolidge into the Sioux tribe? Source [7] [8]
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Hello and thank you for reviewing.

I am still quite new at submitting DYKs so I would appreciate constructive feedback.

I hope that the article has received enough expansion to qualify, and if not, I will happily research more to expand the article.

Yellow Robe's life is quite long and contains many anecdotes so I am also able to rephrase sentences or alter as needed. Created by Evedawn99 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Initial review. Hello and thank you for your hard work on an interesting article! Article is new enough and long enough (per DYK tool confirming 5x expansion since December 19). Reads well, neutral in tone, looks well sourced. QPQ is not required. Taking some extra time now to review each ALT hook. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:12, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
• @Evedawn99
  : My questions and comments about the hooks are as follows:

Hope that all makes sense. Very excited to see this article, so really it's just a matter of fine-tuning the hooks (as well as how the information appears in the article). Cielquiparle (talk) 23:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Cielquiparle:! Thank you so much for your thorough and constructive review as well as the kind words! I am glad the article is of interest, is neutral, and has more than enough sources. Here are the revisions that I hope reflect your requests. Apologies for my possibly clunky editing as I have grown used to the visual editing tool. Thanks again! The Fonz (talk) 18:28, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• ALT0a: ... that Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) denounced Native American stereotypes in Wild West shows, and later starred in a 1930 film consisting solely of Native actors? Source: Source for denouncing Wild West shows: [9] There is also an image that would work for this.
• ALT1: Deleted; I agree, it seems to put Rosebud in the spotlight.
• ALT2a: ... that Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) was abducted into a Pennsylvanian boarding school at 16, wearing "full Indian costume" and not knowing a word of English? Source: In his own words: [10]
  Same thing written on a form given to the school (Carlisle Indian Academy in PA): [11] ^{[1] [2]} *Added two secondary sources.*

Yellow Robe with daughter Rosebud (center) and President Coolidge (left) in 1927

• ALT3a: ...that in 1927, Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) "adopted" President Calvin Coolidge into the Lakota Sioux tribe to thank him for the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act? Source [12] [13] "Calvin Coolidge and Native Americans". WHHA (en-US). Retrieved 2022-12-25. *I have read more about this and finally understood why this ceremony occurred! It's more multifaceted than I thought and seems to be one of the most fast-moving times of Yellow Robe's life and an interesting illustration of how he expressed his activism.*

@Evedawn99: Thanks for your response. ALT3a is better; personally I think it would be even better with the word "supporting" so it reads "thank him for supporting the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act" (or perhaps "thank him for signing the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act into law").

Unfortunately, I doubt the new image for ALT0/ALT0a is clear enough to run on the main page. Other issues related to ALT0/ALT0a: Article lacks a citation for casting "solely Native actors" and the Chief Buffalo Child Long Lance controversy; this is now tagged within the article and needs to be fixed. If it's important to attribute Atalie Unkalunt, where did she say it? (Or maybe it's not important to attribute the indirect quote to her, and you could modify the claim and choose another source.) ALT0a also repeats "Native/Native American" too much. What do you think of this:

ALT0b: ... that Lakota Sioux activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) denounced Wild West shows, but later starred in a 1930 film playing an Ojibwe chief?

Further comment is that regarding his objection to Wild West shows, my advice is to cite at least one or two secondary sources within the article that interpret "The Menace of the Wild West Show", rather than trying to interpret brief excerpts of the primary source yourself; the speech/essay is so famous, you have a lot of solid sources to choose from. A quick scan of other sources suggests that his objections had to do with the "demeaning portrayal" of Native Americans (e.g. "portrayal as savages" etc.), but also the fact that he was blaming the "Wild West schemes" themselves for perpetuating "drunkenness" (e.g., see Popular Culture Review).

Regarding ALT2/2a, I still think the hooks are not quite right. Just so we're clear, Chauncey Yellow Robe's father gave his permission to have his two sons sent to Carlisle, even if it was against young Chauncey's will. (See the NYT obituary already cited within the article, or page 12 of this biography of Rosebud.) This is quite different from abduction, and in any case, in his writings as an adult, Chauncey was actually positive about the education he received. Looking at this fresh, maybe you could make a case for keeping the word "forced" as you had it in ALT2, but the way it is phrased it also sounds like someone forced him to wear the full Indian dress, whereas if you read the sources it sounds like he just didn't have any other clothes *at first*. Anyway, regardless of whether or not we use this hook, this still needs to be fixed within the article and I also think you should go ahead and delete one of the two block quotes about his schooling, because they are redundant (and a lot of Wikipedia editors frown on too much blockquoting).

Hope this is clear enough. If you don't want to bother too much with the other hooks, we could probably go with ALT3a (or an ALT3b with minor tweaks), but regardless, there are still 3–4 issues that need to be resolved within the article, per my comments above. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:51, 26 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Update. Proposing slight tweak to ALT3a hook below:

• ALT3b: ... that in 1927, Native American activist Chauncey Yellow Robe (pictured) "adopted" President Calvin Coolidge into the Lakota Sioux tribe to thank him for supporting the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act?

I've struck the hooks that don't work (because they aren't accurate), and have made further edits to the article to address at least one of my own previous comments as the initial reviewer (about the repetitive block quotes and the mischaracterization of the reason he went to Carlisle).

Could someone else now review the remaining hooks (ALT0b and ALT3b), as I have proposed some hook modifications and have edited the article? Thanks! Cielquiparle (talk) 18:40, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

Judith Marquet-Krause

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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Judith Marquet-Krause

• ... that archaeologist Judith Marquet-Krause (pictured) disproved that the Book of Joshua was a factual account of the city of Ai? Source: ^[1]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elizabeth Mary Wells

Created by Lajmmoore (talk). Self-nominated at 10:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Awesome article that is both new and long enuf for DYK. QPQ done. No evidence of copyvio. Hook fact is verifiable, although I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to tweak the hook a little (it seems to imply that she actively set out to disprove Joshua's accuracy, which is quite the contrary to the intent of the expedition!). AGF on some sources I can't view. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 17:58, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

Image also seems like it complies with guidelines. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 17:59, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Thanks Kingoflettuce - what about:

ALT1 ... that excavations led by archaeologist Judith Marquet-Krause (pictured) disproved that the Book of Joshua was a factual account of the city of Ai?

Does that move the emphasis enough? Lajmmoore (talk) 10:33, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ALT1 is definitely better. Striking ALT0. Interesting article. Cielquiparle (talk) 08:27, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• WP:PARAPHRASE problems. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:57, 23 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @97198, Lajmmoore, Cielquiparle, and Kingoflettuce: -- RoySmith (talk) 23:58, 23 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hello RoySmith, thanks for flagging this - I wonder if the issue was caused by the fact I used a translation from NL? Either way, I'll fix it in the next 48 hours. Thanks again Lajmmoore (talk) 07:43, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hello @RoySmith: I've taken another look and weeded out, I think the worst paraphrasing. I'm not sure what to do about the structure - whether that too is considered COPYVIO? Lajmmoore (talk) 18:39, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Nikkimaria: could I impose on you to take a look at the latest version? -- RoySmith (talk) 18:58, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Certainly better, although the Career section in particular could do with a bit more reworking. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:23, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've done a bit more reworking, but I'm also at a bit of a loss with the structure since the JWA article is written quite like a Wikipedia article, I'm finding it challenging to see how to structure it differently. If someone could offer some advice that would be very much appreciated. Lajmmoore (talk) 16:24, 26 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

1. ISBN 978-1-60899-323-9
   .

Articles created/expanded on December 25

Phylogenetic reconciliation

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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• ... that evolution can be studied across many levels of biological organisation—from nucleotides to organisms, holobionts and ecosystems—using a common method, phylogenetic reconciliation? Source: "Unifying Parsimonious Tree Reconciliation" (2013) by Nicolas Wieseke, Matthias Bernt, Martin Middendorf: "This opens up new possibilities for solving reconciliation problems for a variety of applications. Biogeography, gene tree/species tree, and host-parasite systems can be reconciled with the same algorithms while only the cost model γ differs. Beside that, further cases of application exists, e.g., general symbiotic systems or interactions of genes or gene products, where both association partners are equitable and a reconciliation can not be produced by simply embedding one tree into the other."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Janet Sorg Stoltzfus
  • Comment: This article is a wikified version of the open-access article Menet H, Daubin V, Tannier E (2022) Phylogenetic reconciliation. PLoS Comput Biol 18(11): e1010621. doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.1010621 that is available under CC BY 4.0.

Moved to mainspace by Daniel Mietchen (talk). Nominated by Daniel Mietchen (talk) at 18:09, 25 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• @Daniel Mietchen: Hi there! Couple things: first, unless the authors have verified wikipedia accounts, no need to give them DYK credit (it actually wouldn't work out technologically). Second, make sure your article has at least 1500 prose characters that are not copied from a freely licensed source, as work that isn't your own doesn't count towards DYK's length requirement. Thanks! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:30, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 26

Mimi Kilgore

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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• ... that Mimi Kilgore gifted Willem de Kooning a frog that had been run over by a car? Source: “ At one house Ms. Kilgore came upon a frog that had been flattened by a car tire. Finding that it reminded her of an abstract shape from one of his paintings, she presented it to de Kooning as a quirky gift. But he saw it as something more. He kept the frog for the rest of his life, a symbol of his devotion to a friend, lover and muse who would remain a source of inspiration for years and who would, by many accounts, help reinvigorate his career.” NY Times
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Fox Hill Prison

Created by Thriley (talk). Self-nominated at 02:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Hi Thriley (talk), review follows: article created 26 December and exceeds minimum length; article is well written; although the bulk of the article is cited to a single source (New York Times), it is eminently reliable (I would recommend broadening the sources anyway, if possible); I don't have access to the NYT (subscription only) but happy to AGF there has been no copying from it (Earwig check picks up only a few common phrases which I think are acceptable); hook fact is certainly interesting and mentioned in the article, AGF on sourcing; a QPQ has been carried out. Looks fine to me - Dumelow (talk) 10:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
• Can she be considered notable with only one independent source? SL93 (talk) 16:43, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • I’ll add some more today. Thriley (talk) 17:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • @Thriley, SL93, and Dumelow: More sources have been added (I hope to SL93's satisfaction), but the article has a ton of bare URLs that need to be cleaned up first. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 07:26, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

      A NYT obit is fairly persuasive and a Google search showed other reliable sources covering her life. Happy to reinstate the tick once the bare URLs are dealt with - Dumelow (talk) 12:45, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• @Thriley: any chance the bare URLs could be filled out? If they're not fixed within a week, I think it's best to take this off of yours and everyone else's plate. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @Theleekycauldron: Will take care of this today. Sorry about that! Thriley (talk) 21:15, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 27

Caffoy

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• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that caffoy was a 16th-century furnishing fabric made of wool that was also used to decorate Houghton Hall? Source: https://archive.org/details/houghtonhallprim0000unse/page/30/mode/2up?q=Caffoy Page31,34,39
  • ALT1 ... that Erddig 1726's inventory includes seven walnut chairs, four of which were originally covered in caffoy, a cut-wool velvet? Source: https://archive.org/details/erdiggwrexham0000unse/page/69/mode/2up?q=Caffoy Page69
• ALT2 ... that Caffoy, a luxurious wool velvet cloth imitating silk, was popular in the 16th century? Source: https://archive.org/details/nationaltrustboo0000clab/page/241/mode/1up^: 241
• ALT3 ... that in 1579, Caffoy was also featured in a pageant honouring the queen's visit to Norwich? Source:https://archive.org/details/nationaltrustboo0000clab/page/241/mode/1up^: 241
• ALT4 ... that caffoy was a fabric similar to cut silk velvet, made from wool, and often used for decorations, such as hangings and draperies? Source: https://archive.org/details/textilesinameric00mont/page/183/mode/1up?q=Caffoy^: 183
• ALT5 ... that
  furnishing material patterned with wool pile designs, imitating silk velvets and damasks? Source: https://archive.org/details/textilesinameric00mont/page/183/mode/1up?q=Caffoy
  ^: 183
• ALT6 ... that caffoy was a decorative wool velvet material that imitated silk for use as a furnishing fabric? Source: https://archive.org/details/textilesinameric00mont/page/183/mode/1up?q=Caffoy^: 183
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Exeter Theatre Royal fire
  • Comment: Assuming article is at 5x now, expansion began 59 edits ago on December 26, 2022

Created by RAJIVVASUDEV (talk). Self-nominated at 18:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• Full review to follow, but can alternate hooks be proposed here? Both hooks seem to be reliant on specialist knowledge (the first hook mentions a building readers may not necessarily be familiar with, while ALT1's context may not be clear to non-specialists). DYK rules require that hooks appeal to readers that don't have special knowledge or interests and I don't think either hook meets that criterion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

@Narutolovehinata5 Hi! Kindly check. Thanks RV (talk) 14:22, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@RAJIVVASUDEV: Apologies for the delay in replying. I'll need a few days first to think about if ALT2 or ALT3 are okay (I think ALT2 is probably the one that meets the criterion here best, albeit marginally). My main concern is that the article writing seems rather non-standard, with lots of '[' and ']' symbols along with an inconsistent use of quotation marks. I would probably suggest that the article be given a copyedit before the nomination can proceed further. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5 Made the necessary changes. Please have a look. Thanks RV (talk) 08:32, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Really really sorry about the delay in replying! I got caught up in a lot of real-life matters and I forgot to get back to this. In any case, I've struck all hooks as I think those other options are either not very intriguing or require specialist knowledge. I do think ALT2's hook fact has the most potential, and reading through the article again, I think one possible option would be a slight revision of it: rather than focusing on when it was popular, the focus could be on it being used as an imitation of silk. My article spot-check and paraphrase check also showed that the article does appear to meet requirements and a QPQ has been done, although the sentences that exactly mention it being used as a substitute for silk do need footnotes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:51, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No problem! Let me rework and ping you then. Thanks RV (talk) 09:05, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Kindly check ALT5. Thanks RV (talk) 08:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The hook suggestions seem a bit complicated. Maybe simplifying it a bit? There's also maybe a few too many links, which might distract people away from checking out the article and instead direct them to those other articles. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:29, 1 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Kindly check ALT6, it is simplified, and I have fixed overlinking. Thanks RV (talk) 04:34, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on December 31

Braxton Cook

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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• ... that Braxton Cook's vocals were sampled in Taylor Swift's 2022 song "Lavender Haze"? Source: https://districtfray.com/articles/dc-jazz-musician-taylor-swift-new-album/
  • Reviewed: first DYK submission

Created by BanjoZebra (talk). Self-nominated at 20:00, 5 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• WP:DYKCRIT the exact sentence mentioning the Taylor Swift part needs a footnote. No QPQ is required as this is the nominator's first nomination. However, I'm not a fan of the hook. In recent months there have been reservations about hooks about or that mention Swift, and such hooks tend to underperform in terms of DYK readership interest. Theleekycauldron could perhaps elaborate more on this point, but in the meantime, could you perhaps propose a different hook about Cook that doesn't involve Swift? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:57, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • Narutolovehinata5 is correct, but i won't bore you with the details :) welcome to DYK, BanjoZebra! If you'd like any assistance drafting a hook, I'm around. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:59, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 ... that Braxton Cook performed alongside Jon Batiste on the soundtrack for Pixar's Soul, which won the Academy Award for Best Original Score? SL93 (talk) 08:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see that my hook suggestion isn't in the source. SL93 (talk) 08:49, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My mistake, I fixed the source on the page. SL93 I think that hook works! BanjoZebra (talk) 16:40, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• ALT1: ... that Braxton Cook performed alongside Jon Batiste on the Oscar-winning soundtrack for Pixar's Soul? Source: https://nettwerk.com/new-signing-braxton-cook-shares-the-same-feat-marquis-hill-%E2%81%9F BanjoZebra (talk) 18:22, 13 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I wonder if it could be revised further. There's probably an okay core there but I'm not really a fan of the mention of Batiste. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 23 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Del Riley (clerk)

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• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that Linn County clerk Del Riley pioneered Oregon's vote-by-mail system, now used as the only voting method in the state? Source: https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2018/09/opinion_rememberingoregons_tru.html
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Just moved this out of my userspace into mainspace, think there's a DYK in it.

Created by 127(point)0(point)0(point)1 (talk). Self-nominated at 08:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• @127(point)0(point)0(point)1: I see two issues. The first is what exactly it means to "pioneer" a system, and the second is that the source provided is an opinion piece. I'll see if something else is a possible hook here. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 02:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

I'd be happy to welcome any alt hooks you could suggest! --(loopback) ping/whereis 07:10, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on January 1

Millennial pause

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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• ...   that millennials pause? Source: https://archive.today/20220916215908/https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/08/tiktok-gen-z-millennial-pause-parody/671069/
  • Reviewed: Translation Bureau
  • Comment:
    promoters, i am aiming for the quirky slot with this hook, in case it isn't clear. i'd prefer if the hook immediately before it is a bit shorter to make the unusual spacing more noticeable, but don't worry if you can't make that happen. (if you are confused as to why i am playing with the spacing, please read the article, or at least its lead.)
    reviewers, i am open to suggestions regarding where best to put the extraneous spacing, and how lengthy it should be. i decided to use three spaces because i know that many readers will not notice one extra space, and the point was to make readers notice the superfluous spacing, since that is the subject of the article. one alternative is to use a couple of extra dots in the ellipsis. one much more radical alternative (though also possibly less noticeable) would be to drop the ellipsis altogether, interpreting the other hooks as having been drafted by millennials. below is an approximation of how the hook may look in comparison with the one immediately above, shown at roughly the width it would appear on the main page.

following a longer hook:

• ... that in the 2022 Berlin Marathon, Tigist Assefa won by running the third-fastest marathon ever by a woman, in just her second marathon, breaking her personal best by nearly 20 minutes?
• ...   that millennials pause?

following a shorter hook:

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• ...   that millennials pause?

alt0a (with extra spacing before the bullet point):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?

• ... that millennials pause?

alt0b (with extra spacing after the bullet point but before the ellipsis):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
•    ... that millennials pause?

alt0c (with extra spacing after the "that"):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• ... that   millennials pause?

alt0d (with an ellllipsis):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• ..... that millennials pause?

alt0e (with no ellipsis):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• that millennials pause?

alt0f (double ellipsis, added by Hameltion):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• ... ... that millennials pause?

alt1 (with no ellipsis and uneven text):

• ... that ice XVII potentially has a use in green technology as a medium for storing hydrogen?
• that zoomers do not pause like millennials?

Created by dying (talk). Self-nominated at 22:59, 8 January 2023 (UTC). [added alt1. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)]Reply[reply]

• @Dying
  : Fun idea! Meets new and length requirements. Neutral and very cited, but I do have some suggestions to improve the article:
  • Dates would be very helpful – when was the term coined (and on what platform), when and how was it popularized?

    haha! oh, wow, i can't believe i didn't mention any dates at all. anyway, added. i think kathryn lindsay of the atlantic may have popularized the term, but i don't remember any reliable sources explicitly stating this, although many do reference her. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Clarify in the body what "some videos" means – mostly in social media posts? Is the pause largely noticed on TikTok/Instagram?

    my assumption is that the phenomenon shows up in a wide range of videos, as sources don't seem to state that it is restricted to social media (even though some state that awareness of it is going viral on social media). i'd conjecture that it is being more clearly noticed now because videos with such pauses, when uploaded to social media, can be more closely compared to videos without them. the source i provided above states that "as short-form video comes to Instagram (Reels), YouTube (Shorts), and Snapchat (Spotlight), the Millennial pause is becoming easier to spot", suggesting that it exists outside these videos as well. i've now added that observation to the article body to try to help clarify that it doesn't seem to be restricted to social media. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Also, and this is speculation by me, but lack of video editing seems to be a crucial but unstated element

    i agree that the lack of editing of many short-form videos posted on social media platforms may have been a contributing factor to the rise of the millennial pause, but i don't recall it being explicitly mentioned in any of the sources, so i didn't mention it myself. plenty of users of social media now state that, since they have become aware of it, they have been editing the pause out. i have found a recent source mentioning that the pause could be edited out, but it isn't, so i have added that to the article. (i am somewhat conflicted about adding this, since the source doesn't qualify the statement, e.g., only assert that it is often not edited out, but i attributed the statement in the article, so am assuming that mentioning this is okay.) dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • JC Chasez's pause is mentioned almost incidentally in the source, so the photo seems undue. Also, would be good to find a source that explicitly says the pause is not exclusively a millennial phenomenon if that's the case

    that's a valid point. thankfully, after some searching, i've now found another celebrity mentioned in a reliable source, and not only incidentially: jennifer coolidge! i have now substituted chasez for coolidge in the featured photos. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Helpful to mention in the photo caption that the term was coined in reference to TS

    i have added a footnote, as i think the caption is already longer than usual. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Referring to millennials as "older users" is pretty funny to me, maybe replace that phrase with "millennial users"? Or "users of the millennial generation and older" if that's what sources indicate

    at the time, i couldn't find any reliable sources that explicitly mentioned older generations exhibiting the pause, but it seems to be implied, which is why i tended to use the phrase "older users" instead of explicitly mentioning millennials whenever i was discussing people that exhibited the pause. (i think using the phrase "old users" might have been inappropriate, but when comparing millennials to zoomers, i assume using the phrase "older users" isn't too unusual.) however, i have now found a recent source referring to "'older than Gen Z' creators", so i've replaced one of the instances of "older users" with "people older than zoomers", and simply dropped the other instance. (i haven't used the term "millennial generation" in the article, so i didn't want to complicate the terminology used.) dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Some sentences are difficult to follow. #Theory is particularly verbose/redundant, try saying the sentences out loud. Also, "cause some millennials to question whether they are becoming too old" could become something like "made some millennials notice that they are 'getting old'" (to introduce the point of view of the source)

    i tried making the theory section easier to understand. please let me know if i was successful.

    also, i'm not sure if i'm understanding the second part of your comment correctly, but i think most millennials noticed a long time ago that they were getting old. (presumably, many zoomers have too.) i think the issue is whether or not millennials are getting older than what they are comfortable identifying with. the wired article states that "[m]illennials, the first generation to be online as kids, are starting to feel like [they]'ve aged out", which seems to focus on the heart of the matter: many millennials identify as the first digital natives, so when it is clear that they may no longer be as native in the digital world as they had previously seen themselves, the cognitive dissonance is stressful and uncomfortable, and makes them wonder if they have become too old.^{[original research]} (i don't think this experience applies to all millennials, but those that don't feel the cognitive dissonance aren't the ones complaining about it in reliable sources.) dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Other recs: Include definition of millennial years in body of the article. Add publication dates to citations. Remove all uses of the word "celebrity"

    i had actually tried to avoid explicitly defining what a millennial is in the article lead or body, because definitions of the term vary widely and i thought mentioning the details would break the flow of the article. (i added a partial definition in a footnote to allow readers to synth for themselves that chasez is not a millennial.) after reading your comment, i can now see that the article can be confusing for someone wholly unfamiliar with the term, so i have tried to add a practical but noncommittal definition in the lead. please let me know if you think that doesn't work. dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Hope that's not too much to ask in a DYK review! Not all the changes are necessary, but the first two bullets are kind of important context that's missing, otherwise almost ready to go. QPQ present. As for the hooks, I like alt0b but it also kind of looks like a typo. Added alt0f above, favorite I've thought of so far. Hameltion (talk, contribs) 04:52, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  thanks for the thorough review, Hameltion! apologies for taking so long and for being so verbose in my reply; i fall down a rabbit hole whenever i try to do research for this article.

  admittedly, i think i had been playing around with alt0f too, but had been worried that it might look too much like a copy-paste error. of course, they all look like errors, though. i had preferred using either alt0 or alt0b for months (yes, it took me a while to get around to writing the article), but i thought of alt0d about a day before the nomination, and it has been growing on me, so i don't know what to think. i've also now added alt1, based on the idea in alt0e and the recently described gen z shake, now mentioned in the article. i only thought of it recently, but it might be my favourite one now. what are your thoughts on alt1? dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  Most edits look great! Article is much improved. Besides resolving the coatrack discussion below, just a few more thoughts: Jennifer Coolidge's TikTok is amazing, but it's still a random one-off use of the millennial pause – fine in the body, but suggest you use just one image (Taylor Swift). The Theory section is much better (much clearer), but still sort of wordy. Also, my suggestion to rewrite this sentence – "Becoming aware of the phenomenon has caused some millennials to question whether they are becoming too old" – wasn't about the content, it's just kind of stilted diction. As for the Millennials online section, it seems sort of arbitrary what's been included but I think it's mostly fine; it works to give context situating this particular generational behavior.

  For hooks, my preference is still the one I suggested (alt0f) but would not object to either alt0b or alt0d. Like the idea behind alt1 but it's pretty confusing without having read the article all the way to the bottom, and it first seemed to me like that SpongeBob meme which is not the connotation you're going for. Simple is better I think. Hameltion (talk, contribs) 17:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Also, and this is speculation by me, but lack of video editing seems to be a crucial but unstated element Couldn't agree more. Instructing actors to pause for a few seconds at the beginning of each take is one of the first things people learn to do when making any sort of edited content. I know the Atlantic article is only talking about off-the-cuff TikTok smartphone selfie cam stuff which usually doesn't get edited, but it seems like a glaring omission. The lead of this article reads to me like it's telling the reader "if you don't immediately start talking when hitting the record button you're oooold" which flies in the face of decades of conventional wisdom in film-making. DigitalIceAge (talk) 18:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  DigitalIceAge, i actually didn't get the impression that lindsay's article in the atlantic was only talking about short-form videos on tiktok, so i didn't qualify the definition in the article. i mentioned a bit more about lack of editing in my response to Hameltion above, which i hope will address your concerns.

  your take on the lead is really interesting, as i personally don't think that someone is "oooold" if they exhibit a millennial pause, so am admittedly rather surprised that the lead comes off that way to you. (i actually thought the reason you stated could be a more relevant factor, so am glad you brought it up, but i have yet to find any reliable sources that posit this theory.) what about the lead gives you that impression, and how do you think it should be changed?

  by the way, i noticed that you removed the digital divide article from the see also section, stating in your edit summary that it "does not apply, the camcorders/older smartphones millennials used which incurred a lag between the record button and start of the take were digital". before i had added that article to the see also section, i had checked to see if the term "digital divide", as it is used in wikipedia, was used to only refer to the divide between people with access to digital devices and those that did not, or if it was a broader term, also used to describe the divide between people familiar with different types of digital technology. looking through the digital divide article, i got the sense that the latter was the case, so i had felt that it was appropriate to include the article in the see also section. my reading of your edit summary leads me to believe that you think the former is the case. did you have a chance to look over the article? dying (talk) 04:15, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  It might just be a kneejerk reaction on my part (done a lot of shooting and editing video in the past) but the first two sentences paint too broad of a brush. The Atlantic article does specify short-form content as where it is most discernible ("Which is why, as short-form video comes to Instagram (Reels), YouTube (Shorts), and Snapchat (Spotlight), the Millennial pause is becoming easier to spot") so we should use that phrase instead of the vague "some recorded videos". Also the whole 'Millennials online' section reads like a coatrack for this supposed "Millennial Internet Era" that bears precious little relevance to the concept of "millennial pauses" (how is taking landscape photos 'millennial'?) and should be trimmed. And... the 'doggo' image/caption is totally

  irrelevant (millenials aren't dogs, they're not the ones using "adulting"!) and reads like it was written for meme fodder and just had to go... sorry. I get it's a jokey lighthearted topic, but we need to give appropriate weight to those kinds of navel-gazing asides as an encyclopedia. As for the digital divide, the article defines that concept as unequal access to digital tech. Pretty sure Taylor Swift and every millennial who ever uploaded a vlog in 2008 has the same access to TikTok as Gen Z does today. In fact, this article wouldn't exist if that weren't the case! DigitalIceAge (talk) 07:21, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

  ]

Articles created/expanded on January 2

Robert Parker Coffin Bridge

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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Robert Parker Coffin Bridge

• ... that the covering of the Robert Parker Coffin Bridge (pictured) has been struck by vehicles at least 40 times since August 2020? Source: "Residents toasted its Aug. 14, 2020, reopening ... Since the reopening the bridge has been struck by vehicles 40 times, according to Deputy Chief Christopher Covelli of the Lake County sheriff's office." ([14])
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Gardiner Horsford

5x expanded by HueSatLum (talk). Self-nominated at 04:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - BridgeReports is not a reliable source, I suggest using another websites that displays NBI data.
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed : Y Used in article: Y Clear at 100px: Y

QPQ: N - Not done yet.
Overall:

Waiting on QPQ and a replacement source. The hook is great and present in the article and source. SounderBruce 06:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• Thanks for the review! I've added my QPQ and replaced BridgeReports with an official government source. ~huesatlum 02:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • @SounderBruce: Pinging in case you missed my response ~huesatlum 02:45, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Good to go now. SounderBruce 03:42, 6 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
      ]
• WT:DYK#Template:Did you know/Queue/3 Jan 28
  . At this point, the hook fails The hook should refer to established facts that are unlikely to change. It's true that if it's "more than 40" today, it'll always be "more than 40", but the closer this is tied to a specific number, the less it complies with the spirit of that rule. I think we're also close to "D6 ... unresolved edit-warring".
  • @RoySmith and Bruxton: I appreciate the attention to detail on this. I didn't mean to derail this nomination -- I thought I was just correcting a slight misunderstanding. I'm struggling to understand what the exact concern is here: that the number 40 may be inaccurate, or that the number 40 is overly precise for a Wikipedia article (or a DYK hook)? If it's the former, I've found half a dozen sources that support the fact that there have been at least 40 as of September 2022 (and I'm not aware of any sources that specifically contradict this, just some that are less precise). But if it's the latter, I can be convinced that that's the right approach and change it back to "dozens". ~huesatlum 02:49, 1 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Hi. I'm tied up in other stuff at the moment so I don't have time to dive into the details right now, but I feel your frustration and didn't want to leave you hanging. Once something hits a queue, the clock is ticking for when it hits the main page. The first priority is to make sure the hooks are correct. If we can iron out questions on the fly, that's great, but once things get complicated, the easiest thing is to just replace the hook. Once the hook is unpromoted, we can work on it without the clock ticking and take our time to make sure we get it right. That's really all I was doing here. It doesn't sound like there's any fundamental problem that'll be hard to fix, but I wanted to get this off the clock so we could make sure it's right. -- RoySmith (talk) 03:40, 1 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • Thank you, I appreciate the explanation. I am frustrated that I was never notified and arrived to the discussion late, but it was an honest mistake and there's nothing that can be done now. Once I can get a clearer picture of what the problem is, I will be happy to work to resolve it and get this back on track. ~huesatlum 03:18, 2 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@HueSatLum: Hello and thanks for the message. I think the issue is one of accuracy. We settled on the word dozens because of the many conflicting figures in articles. When you disputed the figure and wanted to state 40 bridge strikes as a specific number - we cannot find agreement in sources for that figure. Bruxton (talk) 00:02, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Bruxton: I searched Google News and a news database for "long grove" bridge between September 1, 2022 and now. These are all the results I found that specify the number of strikes:

Extended content
List: September 23: 40 September 26: at least 32 September 26: over 40 September 27: 41 September 27: 41 October 3: 42 October 4: 41 October 4: 42 October 4: 42 October 5: 42 November 27: 44 (there was some confusion with this article because it also later says "dozens") November 27: more than 40 in recent years

While they are not perfectly consistent, they all support the sentence in the article that there have been at least 40 bridge strikes as of September 2022 (since the one figure under 40 says "at least"). It's possible my search missed some -- are there other sources you're aware of that contradict the number 40? ~huesatlum 03:08, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Here are a few.

Over 30 times September 26

32 Times September 26

30 times September 27

I think someone else will have to make a decision about this. Over 40 may be the most accurate figure based on the majority of references but I will let another prep builder decide. Bruxton (talk) 21:55, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Worth noting that those all say "at least" or "more than" or the like, but they are good to find. I will respect whichever figure the prep/queue builders decide, but at this point I don't think there's anything preventing this nomination from going back on the Approved page. @SounderBruce or Bruxton: could one of you restore the tick if you have no objections? Thanks, ~huesatlum 22:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yogie Suardi Memet

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• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that when he led Indonesia's Special Forces, Yogie Suardi Memet also had to lead two other units, resulting in the unit's leadership being done by his deputies? Source: Kopassus: Inside Indonesia's Special Forces, p300: "Yogie [...] got concurrent assignments as head of the Siliwangi military command for West Java and chief of the even larger military region covering all of Java and Madura. Wearing three hats, it came as little surprise that he often left Kopassandha leadership in the hands of deputies."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Roosevelt station (CTA Douglas branch) ‎
  • Comment: -

Moved to mainspace by Juxlos (talk). Self-nominated at 04:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: Y
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y
• Other problems: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting: Y

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

All good. Done a bit of editing on the spelling of the names. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 04:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @Juxlos: How about adding something about his popular nickname and propose it as a hook? Is it plausible? Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 11:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • It reads like a political nickname from PDI-P against him to me. Juxlos (talk) 08:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • Fair enough.
      for original hook. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 12:25, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
      ]
      • @
        Jeromi Mikhael:

        I'm not sure I love the hook – it's not boring, I suppose, but it's also not super compelling? It's an interesting fact, but I don't think I'm hooked by the end. Is there another hook that could be found? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

        [reply
        ]
        • @Theleekycauldron: I'll let you take over. You've been longer in DYK than I am so you definitely knew your way around here. I'm gonna search another article for Muhammad Musa'ad. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 10:16, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
          • @
            Jeromi Mikhael: appreciated. Just so you know, your QPQ for this nom remains valid. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:09, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
            ]
            • @Theleekycauldron: No problem. You can claim this one as your own. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 08:51, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • @Theleekycauldron: I suppose I can write other hooks, but I don't think they're that much more interesting:

        ALT1: ... that Yogie Suardi Memet's attempt to install a new governor in Central Kalimantan caused a local unrest, forcing him to back down?

        ALT2: ... that in 1993, Indonesia's home affairs minister Yogie Suardi Memet utilized thugs to disrupt the opposition Indonesian Democratic Party's national congress?

      • Juxlos (talk) 01:49, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
        • ALT2 seems pretty interesting! Since
          Jeromi Mikhael seems to have bowed out, someone else'll need to verify its sourcing. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:39, 29 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
          ]

Articles created/expanded on January 4

Northeastern Army

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

Chiang Kai-shek and Northeastern General Zhang Xueliang

• ... that Nationalist China's own Northeastern Army kidnapped Chiang Kai-shek (pictured) to convince him to join the Second United Front? Source: Pages 150-169 in Itoh, Mayumi (3 October 2016). The Making of China's War with Japan: Zhou Enlai and Zhang Xueliang. Springer. ISBN 978-981-10-0494-0.
  • Reviewed:

5x expanded by SilverStar54 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - n
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed : Y Used in article: Y Clear at 100px: Y

QPQ: None required.

Overall:

@SilverStar54

: Good article. However

• "In early 1927, the forces of the NPA engaged the National Revolutionary Army (NRA) in Henan and Jiangsu." Needs a citation
• "and on 17 October, Yu Zhishan surrendered Eastern Liaoning to the Japanese." Needs a citation
• Other notable commanders list should probably be cited.

If you can fix that then I'll pass. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hopefully this is the right spot to respond (first time in the DYK process), but thank you for the quick review. I've revised the article to add sources (or remove unsourced material) where you requested. Let me know if there's any further steps I should take. SilverStar54 (talk) 07:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Forgot to promote. Hope to see more expansions about the warlord era. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

@

could you point as to where in the article we're going with "kidnapping", rather than detainment? Also, where could I find the bit about convincing him to join the second united front? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:13, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

@Theleekycauldron: I feel that either term could be used to describe the events, I chose "kidnapping" just because it's more eye-catching for a hook. Do you feel like that's too much of a creative liberty? About the Second United Front, thank you for pointing that out. I describe it, but I never actually included a link to the Second United Front in that section (fixed now). It's what I'm describing in these two sentences: "By the end of the negotiations, Chiang had verbally promised to end the civil war, to resist the Japanese together, and to invite Zhou to Nanjing for further talks. Although he publicly renounced his promises after being released, he quietly followed through on them over the following months." I think that more detail about the Second United Front would be tangential to the article, but I could add more about the negotiations.

SilverStar54 (talk) 20:19, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@SilverStar54: I'd say that "kidnapping" probably has connotations we couldn't back up, but I could be wrong. When you say "join the Second United Front", you don't mean as a card-carrying member? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 03:42, 29 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: I guess I feel that "kidnapping" connotates illegally seizing a person, whereas "detaining" implies a legal or official action, such as by the police. This was done by an army, but their actions were perceived as illegal (at least by the Nanjing government). Perhaps "took hostage" works better?

I'm a bit confused by what you mean by "as a card-carrying member". The Second United Front wasn't a political party that you could be a member of, it was just an alliance between the CCP and the KMT to resist the Japanese. Chiang denied that he was bound by his verbal promise to create such an alliance after he was released, but gradually eased hostilities and eventually did sign an official alliance with the Communists after six months of continued negotiations. For political reasons the KMT framed this as a "surrender" by the CCP, but in reality it was an alliance. I'll try to rewrite that section to make it more clear. SilverStar54 (talk) 05:58, 29 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on January 5

The Last of Us (franchise)

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

---

This was originally a triple nomination, but has been split into three separate nominations. The other two are Template:Did you know nominations/Untitled The Last of Us game and Template:Did you know nominations/The Last of Us: Escape the Dark. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

---

• ... that the 2013 video game The Last of Us spawned a media franchise, including a television series, tabletop game, and multiplayer game? Source: Variety, IGN, Polygon
  • ALT1: ... that a tabletop game and multiplayer video game are in development for The Last of Us?
  • Reviewed: Isabel Cooper (artist), Ash Street shootout, Alexandria Ariana

Moved to mainspace by Rhain (talk). Self-nominated at 04:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• I will review this nomination shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All three articles:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Y Neutral : Y Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

Epicgenius (talk) 14:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @
  I'm a bit uneasy about both of these hooks; I'm sure it's not intentional, but having nothing to say about media franchises other than "they exist" or "coming soon" sounds a bit like advertising to me. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @
    he/him) 01:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]
    • Well, I don't think we'd be losing eligibility on any of the articles. Opening up new nominations for each of the other articles is efficient, but probably a little cumbersome. I'd say that it'd be messier, but we can probably get by if you just propose separate new hooks down here and have them all reviewed and promoted into separate preps. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • he/him) 05:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
        ]

Neil Druckmann

• ... that Neil Druckmann (pictured) conceived the idea of The Last of Us at university by blending Ico, Night of the Living Dead, and Sin City? Source: The Verge
  • ALT1: ... that the second game in The Last of Us series was developed by over 2,100 people across 14 studios? Source: VG247
  • Comment: Image with ALT0 only

Untitled The Last of Us game

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

---

This was originally a triple nomination, but has been split into three separate nominations. The other two are Template:Did you know nominations/The Last of Us (franchise) and Template:Did you know nominations/The Last of Us: Escape the Dark. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

---

• ... that the 2013 video game The Last of Us spawned a media franchise, including a television series, tabletop game, and multiplayer game? Source: Variety, IGN, Polygon
  • ALT1: ... that a tabletop game and multiplayer video game are in development for The Last of Us?
  • Reviewed: Isabel Cooper (artist), Ash Street shootout, Alexandria Ariana

Moved to mainspace by Rhain (talk). Self-nominated at 04:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• I will review this nomination shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All three articles:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Y Neutral : Y Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

Epicgenius (talk) 14:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @
  I'm a bit uneasy about both of these hooks; I'm sure it's not intentional, but having nothing to say about media franchises other than "they exist" or "coming soon" sounds a bit like advertising to me. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @
    he/him) 01:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]
    • Well, I don't think we'd be losing eligibility on any of the articles. Opening up new nominations for each of the other articles is efficient, but probably a little cumbersome. I'd say that it'd be messier, but we can probably get by if you just propose separate new hooks down here and have them all reviewed and promoted into separate preps. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • he/him) 05:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
        ]

• ... that a multiplayer mode in development for The Last of Us Part II was split to become a standalone game? Source: Polygon
  • ALT1: ... that Naughty Dog is developing its first standalone multiplayer game? Source: GamesRadar+
  • ALT2: ... that Naughty Dog was "aggressively hiring" for its next video game? Source: GamesRadar+
• More of a comment rather than a review, but I'd suggest against ALT1 and ALT2. Unless the reader is familiar with Naughty Dog or The Last of Us, they probably wouldn't find either hook to be intriguing. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:33, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Last of Us: Escape the Dark

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

---

This was originally a triple nomination, but has been split into three separate nominations. The other two are Template:Did you know nominations/The Last of Us (franchise) and Template:Did you know nominations/Untitled The Last of Us game. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:43, 27 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

---

• ... that the 2013 video game The Last of Us spawned a media franchise, including a television series, tabletop game, and multiplayer game? Source: Variety, IGN, Polygon
  • ALT1: ... that a tabletop game and multiplayer video game are in development for The Last of Us?
  • Reviewed: Isabel Cooper (artist), Ash Street shootout, Alexandria Ariana

Moved to mainspace by Rhain (talk). Self-nominated at 04:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• I will review this nomination shortly. Epicgenius (talk) 13:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

All three articles:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Y Neutral : Y Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

Epicgenius (talk) 14:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @
  I'm a bit uneasy about both of these hooks; I'm sure it's not intentional, but having nothing to say about media franchises other than "they exist" or "coming soon" sounds a bit like advertising to me. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:33, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]
  • @
    he/him) 01:59, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
    ]
    • Well, I don't think we'd be losing eligibility on any of the articles. Opening up new nominations for each of the other articles is efficient, but probably a little cumbersome. I'd say that it'd be messier, but we can probably get by if you just propose separate new hooks down here and have them all reviewed and promoted into separate preps. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 02:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • he/him) 05:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
        ]

• ... that The Last of Us: Escape the Dark tripled its Kickstarter goal within the first day? Source: Push Square
  • ALT1: ... that in The Last of Us: Escape the Dark, players will explore locations from the video game to travel from an abandoned quarantine zone to Jackson, Wyoming? Source: Dicebreaker

Robin Greenwood

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that economist
  financial crises can be predicted in his paper 'Predictable Financial Crises'? Source: https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2021/01/right-now-predicting-financial-crises
  ?
  • ALT1: ... that economist
    Tesla, Inc valuations? Source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoins-role-in-retirement-portfolios-2021-02-26
  • Reviewed:

5x expanded by SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk). Self-nominated at 16:36, 11 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• 
  Expansion and its timing is ok. Article is long enuf, seems neutral, except that "show" might be better as "suggest", & is well-written. Both hooks check out - ALT1 is probably more enticing, but I think "show" needs changing. Is a QPQ needed? If not, you need to say. Earwig finds that there is a passage from an HBS page that I think is too close:
• Article: "... how best to ensure the stability of the financial system, and Greenwood oversaw research on bank capital and liquidity management, on the nature of bank runs in the modern financial system, and on the unprecedented growth of the financial sector prior to the crisis;..."
• HBS: "how best to ensure the stability of the financial system. Researchers at Harvard have led groundbreaking research on bank capital and liquidity management, on the nature of bank runs in the modern financial system, and on the unprecedented growth of the financial sector prior to the crisis. ... that financial instability often follows periods when financial institutions, like investors and policy makers, have underestimated risks."

- some rewriting needed. The rest of the article is ok. There's no ref on his being "British-American", or being born in Belgium.

Johnbod (talk) 18:10, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for those Johnbod. Definitely agree with suggest, and I've corrected the HBS passage. Best, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 19:11, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Johnbod, status report? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:44, 6 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on January 7

Daikoku Seamount

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that a boiling pond of liquid sulfur was discovered at the summit crater of the Daikoku Seamount in 2006 in the Northern Mariana Islands? Source: "Last night, we came across another extreme of sulfur volcanism in the solar system, a convecting pool of liquid sulfur under more than 40 atmospheres of pressure! At first it was rather difficult to see the pool's surface, because the sulfur was black! However, as we stared through the remotely operated vehicle (ROV) Jason's eyes into the pit, a roiling dark surface of partially solidified crust came into focus. This was a rather precarious place for the Jason ROV, but the long experience and confidence of the Jason team once again came through for us. A sulfur sample was obtained by dropping the anchor chain of one of our markers into the lake." [[15]]
  • ALT1: ... that a rare, boiling pond of molten sulfur sits in the summit crater of the Daikoku Seamount in the Northern Mariana Islands?
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Boiling sulfur ponds can only be found in 3 places on Earth, Nikko Seamount, Daikoku Seamount (Mariana Islands) and the Macauley Island (Kermadec Islands). Boiling liquid sulfur are usually erupted by volcanoes in Io (moon of Jupiter) rather than volcanoes on Earth, so it is a rare phenomenon to witness here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reego41 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 8 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Created by Reego41 (talk). Self-nominated at 00:31, 8 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New Enough: Y Long Enough: Y

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: N - n
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Y Interesting: Y

QPQ: None required.

Overall:

@Reego41: Interesting article but there's some uncited statements that need to be addressed. Also, the hook's citation seems broken. Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• Hey, thanks for reviewing. I did realize that, no idea why the link broke. I have fixed it. Reego41 14:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Reego41: Hey, does "The seamount is located 695 km (432 mi) north-northeast of Saipan, Northern Mariana islands and 665 km (413 mi) south-southeast of Ogasawara Island, Japan. It is located within the sub-region of Micronesia in the Pacific Ocean, which consists of more than 2,000 islands." need a citation because it does seem like it does. Also I need a citation for alt1 Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: Hi, I cited the Geography section. You can use the same citation that I used for ALT0 for ALT1 as well. Reego41 18:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ida Ospelt-Amann

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that Liechtensteiner poet Ida Ospelt-Amann composed her works exclusively in the Alemannic dialect of Vaduz? Source: (google translation) "As a local poet and collector of sayings, anecdotes, songs, games, etc., Ospelt was committed to the maintenance and preservation of the Vaduz dialect. Schnitzelbanks, poems and stories have been created since the 1950s. Radio and television appearances as well as poem settings testify to Ospelt's popularity." https://historisches-lexikon.li/Ospelt_(-Amann),_Ida
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Botaş Saros FSRU Terminal

Created by Lajmmoore (talk). Self-nominated at 13:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• General eligibility:
• New Enough: Y
• Long Enough: Y
• Other problems: Y

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: Y
• Neutral
  : Y
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: Y
• Other problems: Y

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: Y
• Interesting: Y
• Other problems: Y

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

I assume good faith on the references. I added "the" to the hook. SL93 (talk) 04:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

]

• @
  From an outsider's perspective, I'm not sure that I'm seeing much in this hook. She's writing her poems exclusively in a dialect that is spoken across her country, and particularly in the area in which she worked? It doesn't seem like there's that great a payoff in here, although her work is definitely important. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:25, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

Thanks very much theleekycauldron - it's always good to be pressed on hookiness. How about:

ALT1: ... that Liechtensteiner poet Ida Ospelt-Amann collected proverbs for Liechtenstein National Museum? Source: "Liechtensteinischen Landesmuseums, und Ida Ospelt-Amann sammeln Sprichwörter und Redewendungen." https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QYEccgAACAAJ&newbks=0&hl=en&redir_esc=y is the ref & you can access the book here https://www.eliechtensteinensia.li/viewer/image/000468127/80/LOG_0014/

If other people can see a hookier hook than me, it would be great to see other suggestions Lajmmoore (talk) 18:22, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hmm. What makes a hook hooky, in my opinion, is its ability to make the reader ask questions about the topic. This is certainly a neat fact, but I don't think it quite has that curved point at the end of it. This article doesn't look like it offers up so much in terms of hooks, so I would love to hear what other people have to offer. ALT0 might be the best we've got, but I don't really want to go with it... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:04, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

hi Theleekycauldron, I do know what you mean! I'm struggling to find that uplift though - I've been trying to find more sources, but there's not much to add that might make anything hookier. Lajmmoore (talk) 12:45, 28 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Lajmmoore: On the one hand: Let's face it. This will never be a top-clicked DYK hook-of-the-month. On the other hand: This may sound odd, but I have read the original hook dozens of times now, and have always loved the poetry of it – I like the sound of the words (which is neither here nor there, but thought it was worth saying). In any case, it leaves me curious about the Alemannic dialect of Vaduz – what is it exactly, and is there something interesting about it? My advice would be to add at least a sentence or two in the article providing background about Vaduz. That may help to trigger some detail we could tie in with a new hook (or maybe we even decide to keep the original). (Is Vaduz dying or reviving? How many people speak it today? What other dialects is it close to? etc.). Cielquiparle (talk) 04:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cielquiparle thanks very much - i hadn't thought of it like that, so will do some contextualising, and see what comes up! Lajmmoore (talk) 12:54, 7 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles created/expanded on January 9

Jamie Beaton (entrepreneur)

(

• Review or comment
• Article history

)

• ... that New Zealand born entrepreneur Jamie Beaton applied to the world's top 25 universities and received an offer from each? Source: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/how-to-be-accepted-into-a-top-us-uni-by-somebody-who-has-done-it/news-story/982939f4fbffba6b4dafa2ca4ec65a9c#:~:text=When%20Jamie%20Beaton%20was%20finishing,secrets%20in%20a%20new%20book.
  • Reviewed:

Created by MaxnaCarta (talk). Self-nominated at 23:50, 9 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

• tall poppy
  ", and was impressed by the article and how well-written/neutral it is. Article is new enough, long enough, well-cited and has no other eligibility problems. No issues from Earwig check. QPQ appears to not be required as your second DYK nomination (although please let me know if I've got that wrong!).

• The hook is interesting and cited. I note I don't have access to the provided source for the hook as it requires a subscription. I can approve it on an AGF basis but wondered if you could provide me with the wording of the text supporting the hook? (I just want to check that it says this definitively, rather than being simply a claim by Beaton.)

• Some minor comments:
  • Suggest just 'New Zealand' instead of 'New Zealand born'.
  • I think these sentences in the lead might fit better in the body of the article in the 'Early life' section: "The son of property managers, Beaton was born and raised in Auckland where for the first 7 years of his secondary education he attended Saint Kentigern School, then completing the final four years at King's College on an academic scholarship.[1] He was the valedictorian of King's College on graduation.[2]"
  • Per
    MOS:LEADREL
    , any significant information in the lead should usually be covered in the remainder of the article. I think details about his Harvard degree and that he completed it in only three years fits in this category.
  • I'm not sure the two images used in the article add much value or are significant enough to Beaton himself, and I would personally probably not include them, bearing in mind
    MOS:PERTINENCE
    .

• Thanks again for your great work on this article, and hope all of the above makes sense. Only the request for the text supporting the hook is really critical to me approving the nomination. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 04:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• • Comment. Both the hook and the article have neutrality issues. The source used is a book review that repeats an assertion from Beaton. The world's top 25 universities according to whom? Beaton's business is university preparation; I don't think it's appropriate to repeat this claim in Wikipedia's own voice as it virtually amounts to free advertising. A further claim in the article about Beaton's degrees is totally unsourced. The article also includes several other promotional assertions about Crimson's business. ITBF (talk) 13:02, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    • @ITBF: Thanks for your comments! I have added a source for the further claim in the article about his degrees, and done some other tweaks based on sources. As noted, I wanted to check the source wording for the hook before approving, but given that I took a different view on the article's neutrality, I'm going to suggest that a second reviewer be required once the issues I raised have been addressed.
    • @MaxnaCarta: apologies and hope the above is still helpful. I also note that it might be worth double-checking that the degrees listed in the infobox are covered by the sources in the article. Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 20:56, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
      • Have found another source for the hook quote, and suggest slight rewording:

ALT0a: ... that New Zealand entrepreneur Jamie Beaton applied to 25 of the top-ranking universities in the world and received an offer from each? Source: "He had actually applied to 25 of the world's highest-ranked universities, and all had said yes." BBC News

Appreciate this doesn't resolve all your concerns, ITBF. Chocmilk03 (talk) 03:34, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Chocmilk03: thanks for the work you did! I think the hook is perfectly appropriate. It is neutral. Not neutral would be "Jamie Beaton achieved the astounding feat of applying to wonderful universities and this makes him special". That he applied to 25 of the worlds top 25 universities is a fact that has been repeated by multiple reliable sources. Now that you sourced the BBC, a perennially reliable source, the hook is appropriate. Regarding "free advertising", I disagree with that premise. Advertising means describing or drawing attention to a product in a public medium in order to promote sales. "In order" is the key word here. Beaton has primarily become notable on the back of his company. Hence, a description of his business empire and what it offers is essential in writing a complete article about him. This may well have the side effect of drawing attention to his business, but the same could be said for an article on a phone that describes its products and features. I have not given undue weight to the business, remained neutral, and also mentioned the legal issues the business has faced. On balance, I see no violation of WP:NOT. @ITBF:, does this address your concerns? If you have any concerns, please could you identify a solution that would address them? I've been on a break for a wee while so haven't got round to applying. Hopefully this is now okay to proceed. Thanks all! MaxnaCarta (talk) 00:43, 30 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Article is ready for a second reviewer for ALT0a. My assessment as first reviewer was that the article was appropriately neutral, and I remain of this view. I've just made some other amendments to the article (hope you don't mind MaxnaCarta!) to address my concerns above about the lead and because on review there were a few other points that I felt could be stated in a more neutral way (e.g. to say "Crimson states that it does X" instead of "Crimson does X"). Cheers, Chocmilk03 (talk) 02:03, 30 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply
  ]

@

. Hopefully ITBF will be the seconder if they can. I'm still gonna work through your issues mentioned regardless of the nom, eventually to get it to GA standard. It's probably a way off that though and I'm prioritising another article for GA atm. Cheers for the feedback. All to do is wait now. I hope you are safe and nowhere near Auckland...MaxnaCarta (talk) 03:16, 30 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply

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Bronfman kidnapping

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• Review or comment
• Article history

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• ... that an attorney got a client acquitted of a 1975 kidnapping by accusing the victim of masterminding his own abduction to extort money from his family, but in 2020 admitted he'd known it was a lie? Source: "Their conversations, he told the court, focused on Mr. Bronfman’s desire to shake down his family for cash; it was Sam’s idea to stage his own kidnapping." and "Following Mr. Lynch’s commanding performance, Mr. DeBlasio tailored his defense to fit with the hoax angle, telling the court what he knew to be an outright lie. “There was no kidnapping,” he said, addressing the jury. As for the F.B.I., he offered, “They should have been checking Sam Bronfman.” Mr. DeBlasio portrayed the Seagram heir as resentful that he had not “grown up the way the father wanted him.” Calling Mr. DeBlasio “brilliant,” Newsweek wrote that he “stirred jurors to his summation.” Two jurors told The Times they believed that Mr. Bronfman had indeed “engineered his own kidnapping.” Mr. De Blasio waited nearly 45 years to reveal that he had no doubt the story that convinced those jurors was false." Both from https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/sam-bronfman-kidnapping-1975-confession-peter-deblasio.html , also "Back in 1976, Mr. DeBlasio secured an exoneration for his client, one of two charged with kidnapping, by persuading jurors that Mr. Bronfman staged the crime as a hoax to shake down his family for cash. But on Page 474 of Mr. DeBlasio’s book, I discovered, he said the opposite was true. “I want it to be clear to all who may ever read these pages that Samuel Bronfman was not a part of the kidnapping,” Mr. DeBlasio wrote. “I have always felt sorry for him.” at https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/insider/how-a-tip-to-obituaries-breathed-new-life-into-a-decades-old-mystery.html
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ruby Tandoh

Created by Valereee (talk). Self-nominated at 15:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]

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  Now that is a good crime hook. Article is new enough, long enough, neutral, and plagiarism-free; a few sourcing issues, though. I don't love that Legacy.com is being used as a source for key statements, I think the statement on Time on it being the largest ransom needs a timeliness clarification (the article was written in the '70s); also, there's a missing citation at the end of paragraph 2 of "Defense". Hook is cited and definitely interesting, but I got a bit lost while reading it for the first time. How about: