User:Wugapodes/DYKsubpageTest

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 04:38, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Sylvia Geszty

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Sylvia Geszty as Cleopatra

~~... that the coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty from Hungary made an international career from the East Berlin Staatsoper (pictured on stage) and moved to Stuttgart in 1970?~~ Source: [1]

Reviewed: ~~to come~~ Alejandra Melfo

Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 10:54, 2 April 2019 (UTC).

I guess the image would be better if cropped for this purpose, not for the article. What do you think,

David? --Gerda Arendt (talk

) 18:52, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. I've uploaded

David Levy

02:47, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Alternatively, here's

David Levy

05:52, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Full review needed now that images are set. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:52, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
The article meets DYK requirements, no close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ has been provided. The roles section currently lacks references, so that has to be resolved first. While the hook fact is cited inline, I find the wording a little clunky and could be written better. Perhaps something like:

ALT0a ~~... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty (pictured) started her international career as a member of the East Berlin Staatsoper?~~

With that said, I honestly am not sure if that's even interesting (either the original or my own rewording). Another option could be a more minor rewording of the original hook, something like:

ALT0b ~~... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty (pictured) was a member of the East Berlin Staatsoper before joining the Stuttgart State Opera?~~

Which doesn't really resolve the hook interest issues, but personally I think that a Hungarian joining both East and West German musical groups does sound intriguing. In case that doesn't work out, perhaps:

ALT1 ~~... that Sylvia Geszty's portrayal of the role of Zerbinetta in the opera Ariadne auf Naxos was described by a critic as the "most emotional, multi-faceted and human of all"?~~

csdnew

12:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for offering. I didn't dare to suggest ALT1, because it's one critic's pov, - beautiful as it is. Where would "pictured" go? East-West is something specific to her career, - they changed record covers when she dared to leave the Berlin Opera. ALT0a is boring, therefore, showing only one side. In ALT1b, where would "pictured" go? It's East style which needs to show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs) 14:01, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

ALT1a ~~... that the portrayal by Sylvia Geszty (pictured) of Zerbinetta in the opera Ariadne auf Naxos was described by a critic as the "most emotional, multi-faceted and human of all"?~~ —BlueMoonset (talk) 14:29, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Reviewer needed for ALT hooks. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:35, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

All the images are showing her as Cleopatra, so they don't go with any of the hooks citing her as Zerbinetta. @Gerda Arendt: if you would add that fact about them changing record covers to the article it would would make a much better hook. Yoninah (talk) 10:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Would you please suggest something? I am told and again and again that I can't please. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: well, I don't know what you mean by changing record covers. What does the source say? Yoninah (talk) 14:21, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Actually, as that's again nothing saying a word about her artistry, I'm reluctant to even mention it in the article. Why don't we use another variation of ALT0?

ALT0c ... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty was a member of the East Berlin Staatsoper (pictured there as Cleopatra) before joining the Stuttgart State Opera in the West?

The image can "sell" her personality, and it's visibly "old" and Eastern. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:32, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but let's use more English here:
ALT0d: ~~... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty was a member of the East Berlin State Opera (pictured there as Cleopatra) before joining the Stuttgart State Opera in the West?~~ Yoninah (talk) 14:39, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

A changed that hook, because there never was an East Berlin state opera. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: So how about:
ALT0e: ... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty was a member of the Berlin State Opera (pictured there as Cleopatra) in East Germany before joining the Stuttgart State Opera in the West?
(Nobody is going to know what a Staatsoper is). Yoninah (talk) 22:22, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

I prefer East Berlin to East Germany, which is not mentioned in the article. (In the archives, we have Staatsoper nine times, one recenly. The Stuttgart article is even Staatsoper, but as you wosh.)

ALT0f: ~~... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty (pictured as Cleopatra) left the Berlin State Opera in East Berlin for Stuttgart?~~ --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:53, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Honestly I think East Germany would get more interest than East Berlin.

csdnew

01:36, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

We don't go by interest but fact. It's the State Opera of Berlin, not of anything else. (If it was a National Opera, it would be of the GDR, but it isn't.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:29, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Being the State Opera of Berlin does not stop it from having been in East Germany. "Berlin State Opera in East Berlin" sounds rather clunky, with the repetition of "Berlin". Saying "Berlin State Opera in East Germany" avoids that problem, while still getting the point across. --Khajidha (talk) 12:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

The key point about her moving from the East to the West is also clearer in ALT0e. ALT0f just sounds like she switched cities. Yoninah (talk) 13:50, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

You pinged me. East Germany wasn't an official name of a country, but do what you like. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

"East Germany wasn't an official name of a country". So? That's what the place was called in English.--Khajidha (talk) 23:39, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it wasn't the official country, as long as it was the name the country was most commonly called as. Like in a hook, we usually wouldn't refer to the "United Mexican States" or the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", we'd call them "Mexico" or "North Korea" respectively.

csdnew

23:40, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

To the English-speaking readership, East Germany and West Germany mean something; as their articles state, these were the common names for the countries in the English-speaking world. Further, most of these people will not know that Stuttgart was in the West, nor that the Berlin State Opera was in the East. ALT0f fails being hooky because of these very reasons: insufficient touchstones for the average reader. So, to try to get this moving, here's a new ALT that's a tad more explicit and brief than ALT0e:

ALT0g: ... that the Hungarian coloratura soprano Sylvia Geszty (pictured as Cleopatra) left the Berlin State Opera in East Germany for Stuttgart in West Germany? —BlueMoonset (talk) 23:38, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

csdnew

02:53, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

With respect to BlueMoonset, the wording in ALT0g puts the emphasis on her leaving rather than on her career. She was successful in East Germany before leaving for West Germany. I think ALT0e expresses her career better, while also mentioning the discrepancy between East and West. Yoninah (talk) 11:30, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

I'm fine with either ALT0e or ALT0g; striking ALT0f, however, for the reasons mentioned previously. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:54, 5 June 2019 (UTC)