User talk:AlH42

I noticed that you've been editing the date formats in the inline citations. You can simply add a template (Template:Use dmy dates) to the top of the page, or within the reference section, so all of the citation dates will automatically display as DMY format. Cheers! AmethystZhou (talk) 07:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's already there, and works OK. I'm just pedantic.  Alan  (talk) 08:03, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You put in an archive for the reference to the Allen v Petrov match. It doesn't work. I don't think any archives for the live matches work. Something to do with the awful live scores system they now have.  Alan  (talk) 08:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: I've just tried to archive a few more matches from scores.wst.tv/matches and none of them work. You just get a black blank page.  Alan  (talk) 09:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I realized that too after you removed those from the citations. I think it’s because the scores loads in after the page does so WebArchive doesn’t capture it properly. That’s a shame! AmethystZhou (talk) 13:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found that you can get WebArchive to save the WST live score page by saving a screenshot (like this) instead of a regular snapshot, you need an account on archive.org to do this though. AmethystZhou (talk) 05:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, that works OK. But I couldn't be bothered. If you want I could send you a list of all the matches I've used for references. There aren't that many, mainly for 147s and high-breaks.  Alan  (talk) 07:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: That is one brilliant job you're doing with the archived matches in the CofC!  Alan  (talk) 18:18, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! I don't intend to do this for all the tournaments, but there's not that many matches in the CoC so why not, haha. AmethystZhou (talk) 18:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: Surely you're not going to do all the matches in the 2023 UK Championship. That would be way too many!  Alan  (talk) 18:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure yet, maybe for notable matches only? Feel free to remove them though. AmethystZhou (talk) 18:57, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: They're pretty much all "notable" when we're down to the last 32! It's entirely up to you. I will not be removing any, but I might take out the "names" since we're unlikely to reuse them, except for 147s.  Alan  (talk) 19:06, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is "too many references" a thing, as in having an unnecessarily long reference section? Otherwise I might just do all of them, it's not too difficult, especially when the matches are all finished and I can just do them in one go. AmethystZhou (talk) 19:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: It is a thing! See this. But I think you should only do the matches that we mention in the text, and that will not be all of them.  Alan  (talk) 19:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good, thank you! AmethystZhou (talk) 19:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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I noticed that InternetArchiveBot can capture Eurosport links properly. Not sure why, but this is very handy, I'll look into how to use the bot. For editing ongoing tournaments, I think it's much easier if we just add the reference, and use the bot to archive them in bulk once the tournament is finished. Sometimes the news article gets updated, as well, Eurosport seems to do this often. AmethystZhou (talk) 00:49, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good plan. I got caught out by the BBC updating a page after I had archived it. But I think we should continue to archive the match scores pages as they occur.  Alan  (talk) 06:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: However, I think it's a really bad idea to archive any of the snooker.org references until well after the end of the tournament, as Hermund Årdalen updates these pages continually. As an example, compare [2] with [3]. The archived version is completely useless. I think these archives need to be removed for now.  Alan  (talk) 10:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit confused why we'd manually archive anything. Really a reference in Wikipedia should be to something permanent, like a book or a newspaper. Nowadays semi-permanent web sites are ok. My impression is that any referenced url in Wikipedia will be archived by archive.org pretty quickly anyway. Any source that's so ephemeral that we need to archive it manually before it disappears is unlikely to be very suitable. Nigej (talk) 11:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the snooker.org references were archived manually. They might have been done using a BOT.  Alan  (talk) 11:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How do we know yet for the 2023 UK championship? As long as they get archived in the next 6-12 months who cares? Nigej (talk) 11:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, which is why I have suggested taking the snooker.org archives out. However, the scores.wst.tv/matches/ pages need to be done manually with a screenshot, otherwise we just end up with a blank page.  Alan  (talk) 11:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As I said above, this is perhaps just telling us that the scores.wst.tv/matches/ is not a suitable source. Nigej (talk) 11:47, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well it's pretty much all we have for now. We relied upon livescores.worldsnookerdata.com for a long time and that has now gone. Who knows what the WST will do next.  Alan  (talk) 12:08, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And that’s why I think archiving is important. The news websites are generally OK, but many of the older WST links are completely broken since they redesigned their website. Also, they update the tournament pages (like this one) each year but keep the same url, what madness! At any rate, I still need to figure out how the bot works. AmethystZhou (talk) 12:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The BOT works fine. But, like all BOTs, it will make mistakes. So you need to check through manually after you use it.  Alan  (talk) 13:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken the snooker.org archives out for now.  Alan  (talk) 14:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: And another user (User:BennyOnTheLoose) has just used the BOT and put them all back in again. I give up.  Alan  (talk) 14:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WST's new live scoring system is online, and looks like it's finally compatible with the Internet Archive! Example: match and archive. AmethystZhou (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We're in the middle of a bloody tournament for gods sake! OK it's only the Championship League, but I like it, as many do. Their live scoring site is still (sort of) working OK though. None of our cited links to WST sources now work. See this post. Thank god for the archives!!  Alan  (talk) 19:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah it's a big mess with the migrated urls! AmethystZhou (talk) 22:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: OK - I've calmed down now. Here's an interesting thing: if you compare:

1. https://scores.wst.tv/matches/95c99269-0305-4797-ad64-d2f5d8792638 with
2. https://www.wst.tv/match-centre/95c99269-0305-4797-ad64-d2f5d8792638

you'll see that they both use the same 36 character identifier. That might be useful.

You are very unlikely to get a response from WST to your email. I have contacted them a couple of times with no reply. You might be better contacting their software provider.  Alan  (talk) 08:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: ...and looking at the first match that we referenced and archived this season, compare old with new. The only reason I referenced this was for the tournament highest break, and the new sh1t site doesn't even mention it. Bloody hell, how much worse is it going to get?  Alan  (talk) 17:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The frame-by-frame scores are just gone for no reason? And the old page still works which means the database is still there, the new page just doesn't show it. How shambolic... Also, apparently the old scoring pages still work for current events, such as Selby vs. Wakelin that's happening right now: new / old. AmethystZhou (talk) 19:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't realize that they now have live shot-by-shot updates, that's pretty nice. They are removed after the matches are finished, though. AmethystZhou (talk) 19:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this shot-by-shot stuff is way too much detail, and although very pretty and clever, they would have been far better concentrating on trying to get the basics right.  Alan  (talk) 19:52, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just tried to archive the new score page of the Brecel - Lisowski match, and unfortunately it doesn't work! The frame scores and match stats are missing, for some reason. (original / archive) So we'll still have to use the old pages.. AmethystZhou (talk) 19:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: It's all a complete screw-up. I've just fixed your reference BTW.  Alan  (talk) 20:53, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried the same page again and now the archive is capturing all the stats. The WST page works fine but apparently we need to wait a few hours before WebArchive can capture it properly. But hey we can finally archive the new score pages normally now! AmethystZhou (talk) 06:01, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: Good. I think they will probably do away with the scores.wst.tv/matches site in favour of the www.wst.tv/match-centre site at some stage. But we need to keep the references to the old archives which have the break details, as in the example of Cao Yupeng mentioned above. They still can't get the basics right, and they still screw up all the Chinese names.  Alan  (talk) 10:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: It looks like I was right. They seem to have killed off the scores.wst.tv/matches site for current matches, but the older ones are still there for now.  Alan  (talk) 19:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The older links just redirect me to the WST home page for me: [4][5] AmethystZhou (talk) 20:49, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AmethystZhou: So they do. Rats. Thank goodness for the archives.  Alan  (talk) 20:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Don't eat yellow snow!

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Just a note - I believe it was yourself looking at getting something on the main page for the UK Championship. Just a note that 2024 Masters (snooker) is currently on there with a similar message. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:28, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. I stopped even looking at the main page a long while ago. But thanks anyway.  Alan  (talk) 12:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lee Vilenski: I just remembered. It wasn't me,it was AmethystZhou. I just had a bit of a rant about the general indifference to snooker.  Alan  (talk) 16:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]