User talk:Apteva/Archive 7
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May 2013
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Thanks,
Capitalization
Moved from Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (music)#Capitalization
- Apteva, you seem to have returned to your campaign to deny that the ) 17:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
- The convention page that you link references the style guidelines relevant to band name and song/album name capitalizatin: MOS:TM. By requesting the removal of this section, you seem to be testing the boundaries of your newly clarified topic ban, which bans you "from advocating against the MOS being applicable to article titles." If that's not the point of what you're doing here by suggesting removal of the section that directly references the relevant MOS sections, what is your point? Why not drop it? Dicklyon (talk) 16:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
The section recommending removal of a duplication of NCCAPS was created before the addition referring to MOS was added, and the objection is still valid. The only appropriate change is to replace the section with "See
May 2013 - I have blocked you for one month
You seem to be completely incapable of droping your vendetta against Dicklyon. The AE explicitly did not accept your complaint and yet here were are again at ANI with another fatuous complaint of more of the same and failure to back away. Given your unwillingness to compromise, I see no option but to exclude you from editing for a month to demonstrate that the community will not tolerate any further disruption of this type. I'm confident that you will recieve a much longer break if you insist on repeating this behaviour when you return.
- What AE said was that of the six statements, three crossed the line, and as a result, Dicklyon was reminded to not continue. Since then there has been no abatement of the inappropriate behavior that has been going on for many years, although looking back at the last RFC/U, at least Dicklyon has not been calling editors names anymore, so that is a huge improvement, but if on a scale of 1 to 10 name calling is a 1 and a 6 is minimum acceptable behavior, they are making progress, but still not acting appropriately. I recommend either long blocks or yet another RFC/U. In my case, blocks are absurd, because I am not the problem, nor is there anything wrong with any of my edits. In the face of all of the incivility I simply respond professionally and report inappropriate actions to appropriate venues, in this case AE and ANI. It is Dicklyon who has been harassing me, and not in appropriate forums, but in guideline and article discussions. Apteva (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Apteva (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
What I will, do though, to make everyone happy, is promise to avoid Dicklyon for the balance of the block period, ending on June 23, 2013, and not bring up their incivility in any forum, on or off wiki, during that period. It will be up to others to do that, should it continue. Blocks are preventative, not punitive, so that agreement will be more beneficial to Wikipedia.
the block is in fact not necessary to prevent damage or disruption
the block is no longer necessary because you understand what you are blocked for, you will not do it again, and you will make productive contributions
Decline reason:
Reviewing the statement you've made, I do not have the necessary confidence to unblock you. You blame the other person for your own misbehavior, and the way you put a limit on your agreement makes me think that as soon as the block would have expired, you would be back to what got us here. As such, I'm going to decline to unblock. SirFozzie (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
- Acknowledging your email. I have removed the gender specific term as requested. Spartaz Humbug!20:06, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. That is very important to me, and it needs to be assumed that it might be important to everyone. It is just basic common courtesy today. Also, I was pretty sure that I had mentioned that, so it made me wonder if the thread was even read before closing it: "It is the results that I am looking for, no calling me by gendered pronouns, no calling me you, no talking about me in a discussion about something else."Apteva (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I did not at any time "misbehave" and I am blaming no one for my actions. I was blocked ostensibly to stop me from bringing administrative action against one editor, who has been a problem for a long time, and whom I am willing to avoid during the period of the block. If they are abusing me they are of a certainty abusing others as well and someone else can deal with them, I have no reason to do so. And what ever happened to AGF? It is very clear that if "as soon as the block would have expired, you would be back to what got us here", then what is the point of the block at all? I am not going to return now or ever to "the behavior that got me here", as it was not my behavior that got me here. All we are discussing though, is the period of the block, as what I do after the block expires is not affected by the block, as at that point in time I will be unblocked, and can either choose to self destruct by immediately filing another ANI, etc. and no one is that stupid, not even me. So by declining to unblock, you are categorically saying "I do not believe you", which is the exact opposite of "assume good faith", and extremely poor conduct on the part of any admin. The blocking reason states "Disruptive editing: Complete failure to drop the stick". It is never disruptive to call attention to the inappropriate behavior of another editor. I do a lot of RCP, and no one says, oh I guess vandalism is allowed today, and no one needs to get harassed and say, oh I guess that is acceptable here on Wikipedia, and I better not bring it up, because I might get blocked, instead of the offending editor. I really find this an absurd state of affairs for Wikipedia to allow. So the choice is lose yet another valuable editor for a month or unblock and allow me to go on being a productive editor. If I ever so much as give any hint of poking the bear, as the expression goes, or initiate any disciplinary actions against this editor during this time period, you and any admin have my full permission to block me as a preventative action. It simply is not going to happen. There are too many things that need to be fixed and too few of us willing to help for me to be willing to let that happen. Apteva (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
TLDR version. I never have done anything inappropriate, and will not give anyone the satisfaction of doing anything that anyone would disapprove of, as there is too much work here that needs to be done. Per
) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)In the meantime I will post below edits that if anyone agrees with them they can make. Per blocking policy, they may only be made if you agree that they are something that you would like to do. Apteva (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Edit requests
Date | Backlog | Change |
---|---|---|
May 22 | 122 | +29 |
May 23 | 124 | +2 |
May 24 | 123 | -1 |
May 25 | 101 | -22 |
May 26 | 95 | -6 |
May 27 | 100 | +5 |
May 28 | 92 | -8 |
May 29 | 94 | +2 |
May 30 | 83 | -11 |
May 31 | 66 | -17 |
Jun 1 | 80 | +14 |
Jun 2 | 71 | -9 |
Jun 3 | 73 | +2 |
Jun 4 | 78 | +5 |
Jun 5 | 61 | -17 |
Jun 6 | 42 | -19 |
- Users are not co-opting the article into anything. The article was written specifically to address exactly what it currently covers. It never has covered anything else so there is nothing to co-opt. A discussion was held on the talk page whether to expand the scope and there was a clear concensus not to do so. The rest of your rant is just bollocks attempting to divert attention from the real goal. The idea of the international space station having a 420km long lead to connect it to a mains supply is just plain whacky. I B Wright (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- I am guessing that the article title has changed, but when it was written it was only about AC/DC electronics, but that was quickly changed to AC/DC equipment, which is a broader topic. Electrical includes appliances and electronics, appliances only appliances, although a radio could be considered an appliance. If there was an article called AC/DC electronics there would still need to be a broader article about AC/DC (electrical). I believe that originally a slash (/) was not allowed in article titles, but this was created in 2008, probably long after that restriction no longer existed. Is I B Wright really an appropriate username? I mean I know that sometimes I might be right, but all the time? I see it has been in use since 2006, but 747 is not a whole lot of edits, and if it becomes a problem, a new one can be chosen using the WP:CHU/Simple process. There is way too much incivility going on at the talk page. I would assume that the editor, who has been editing the article for some time, who did the revert of the IP edit revert was not even aware of this user talk page, but if they wander this way they can confirm or deny that. I am not going to summon them hither. The ISS generates its own power from solar panels. Where power comes from does not determine if it is a "mains" or not. Apteva (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- I am guessing that the article title has changed, but when it was written it was only about AC/DC electronics, but that was quickly changed to AC/DC equipment, which is a broader topic. Electrical includes appliances and electronics, appliances only appliances, although a radio could be considered an appliance. If there was an article called AC/DC electronics there would still need to be a broader article about AC/DC (electrical). I believe that originally a slash (/) was not allowed in article titles, but this was created in 2008, probably long after that restriction no longer existed. Is I B Wright really an appropriate username? I mean I know that sometimes I might be right, but all the time? I see it has been in use since 2006, but 747 is not a whole lot of edits, and if it becomes a problem, a new one can be chosen using the
- The article title has never changed. The article scope has never changed. It was written from day one to cover AC/DC vacuum tube receivers and nothing else. One or two editors have tried to expand the coverage, but it has been quickly reverted. Why do you believe that I B Wright is not an appropriate account name? The international space station's power arrangements are a complete red herring. Any equipment on board is designed to run from a 48 volt DC supply only (if indeed that is the supply system). None of it is likely to have been designed to run from any AC system if there is not AC supply on board. In any case vehicle supplies (of whatever size) are never described as 'mains' electricity. However, since you now are officially a disruptive editor, there is no need to continue this pointless discussion further. I B Wright (talk) 14:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to discuss the article, which is instead at WP:RM, and work toward becoming an admin. I would be doing a great deal more, and will again, as soon as the sanctions I am currently, and absurdly, under, are removed. Note also, that the admin who blocked me, and the two who reviewed the block appeal, have disrupted the progress of building an encyclopedia by temporarily stopping me from editing. Apteva (talk) 19:01, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to discuss the article, which is instead at
- The article title has never changed. The article scope has never changed. It was written from day one to cover AC/DC vacuum tube receivers and nothing else. One or two editors have tried to expand the coverage, but it has been quickly reverted. Why do you believe that I B Wright is not an appropriate account name? The international space station's power arrangements are a complete red herring. Any equipment on board is designed to run from a 48 volt DC supply only (if indeed that is the supply system). None of it is likely to have been designed to run from any AC system if there is not AC supply on board. In any case vehicle supplies (of whatever size) are never described as 'mains' electricity. However, since you now are officially a disruptive editor, there is no need to continue this pointless discussion further. I B Wright (talk) 14:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- Note: The page "AC/DC (electricity)" has been moved to AC/DC receiver design. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
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- Civility enforcement
- Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/coordination – stalled, no action since February 2013. 22 out of 107 phase one comments have been reviewed, none of the 116 phase two responses have been reviewed.
Next steps
Obviously Wikipedia does not care about Wikipedia. This is completely counterproductive and completely unacceptable. I encourage anyone reading this to contact the two admins who made this deplorable decision to forgo the best interests of Wikipedia for what? For nothing, and encourage them to reconsider. Unbelievable, really truly unbelievable. Apteva (talk) 05:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry Apteva, but no. WP:STICK, making others waste their time on things they don't want to, facetious complaints about how someone references you, sounds like schoolyard "doesn't play well with others". whatever your valid points and the unfairness & bastardry, you stuck your head up too far too often. Take it on the chin. When you're back, try a different style and we'll all be good. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:14, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- How is it a waste of time ever to point out that someone else is not playing well with others, in an appropriate forum? Had I not sought action against that editor, they would just keep right on doing that. The problem, though is not that editor, it is how Wikipedia deals with incivility, which we are working on 2012 by Arb motion, what we are doing is unacceptable, and frankly, blocking me for not being willing to tolerate unacceptable behavior is just more than bizarre. As noted, WP:STICK does not apply to vandals and incivility. The editor in question has been through two RFC/U's and by reading the second one their behavior probably has improved, but it still is far from acceptable, and they do not even know what to do themself, even though the answer is right after the question. Stop being uncivil, that is the answer. By having WP reject the ANI and block me is simply a classic case of adding insult to injury. I am here to help the project, and blocking me is an extremely counterproductive move, and really needs to be seen as one of Wikipedia's stupidest's moves. Apteva (talk) 12:46, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- How is it a waste of time ever to point out that someone else is not playing well with others, in an appropriate forum? Had I not sought action against that editor, they would just keep right on doing that. The problem, though is not that editor, it is how Wikipedia deals with incivility, which we are working on
Apteva (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
*The block did not meet requirements of blocking policy, as it was punitive, not preventative.
*There is no indication that editor will "return to what got them here".
*Editor is well aware that any violation of this trust "will not go well" (a block then would be deserved, as that would be a preventative block, not a punitive block).
All I am saying, is that in the interest of Wikipedia, give me a chance to prove that the unblock was warranted. Everyone deserves that much.
Background information: Editor is a content creator, copy editor, and vandal patroller, who filed AE/ANI requests repeatedly asking for civility enforcement actions, all of which were rejected. Editor recognizes that approach was not working and will "drop the stick" with the hope that a miracle will occur, and everyone will miraculously start being civil (stranger things have happened). Seriously, though, there is an ongoing RFC on the issue, and user will wait until it ends (this could be months or years even) and be very careful in following whatever the recommendation is at that time. User will also, and in the meantime, be careful to disengage from any other editor as needed, as a surefire way of avoiding incivility.
Decline reason:
Having reviewed the AN/ANI threads, the contributions, and a variety of past such threads, it would appear quite obvious that you have been provided MANY MANY chances to prove in the past that the block is unwarranted. I'm not sure how clear "stop or else be blocked" (which is basically what has been said a dozen or so times) was unclear. You refused to stop. Indeed, it took this block to magically get you to understand? No - I doubt that. This block is WHOLLY PREVENTATIVE in nature, and is unfortunately well overdue. Do not ever believe that your positive contributions can outweigh the destructively negative behaviours - they cannot. As Wikipedia is a long-term work-in-progress, protecting the project and its editors from abuse for a month will not be harmful in the long run (
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
- Sigh. See the comment above and "thank you for being disruptive" (sarcasm). I have never and will never do anything that warrants being blocked. Nothing I have ever done on Wikipedia can by any stretch of the imagination be considered "destructively negative behaviours". I count one off the wall and completely absurd warning and not "basically what has been said a dozen or so times". Note: Said warning admin is under admin review and that diff would be useful to bring up there. On to Arb appeal. While I see no warnings on my talk page, there was a warning at WP:ANI, which I did adhere to, but that is he or she thank you very much. There is zero evidence that I do not adhere to any warnings. Involved admins can not review unblock requests. Apteva (talk) 19:27, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
This phrase in particular is noteworthy for its absurdity "protecting the project and its editors from abuse for a month will not be harmful in the long run". This block does no such thing. Its sole action is to prevent productive edits. It does not protect the project, and since it was implemented in response to a complaint of incivility, it serves only to encourage more incivility. Incivility prevents many editors from contributing for fear of being harassed and can not be tolerated. Apteva (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
Slow period to get help
Hi,
) 04:56, 26 May 2013 (UTC)- The basic flaw in your premise is that I'm closer to 50 then I am 40 and that I haven't been at school for over a quarter of a century but please don't let facts get in the way of your posturing. Spartaz Humbug!14:04, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed. The rant above is built on false premises. SirFozzie (talk) 22:19, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
- Some clarifications: I regret that what I wrote is not easily understood by others unaware of the extensive multi-year background. I suggest to carefully count the hundreds of interactions between wp:ANI or asking motives, here, but instead repeatedly posting such remarks on mainspace talk-pages which should "comment on content not on contributors". After the first dozens of interactions it becomes clear, but please count at least 100 instances (and think carefully about the insults), and then perhaps you will begin to understand a small portion of what has really been happening over the past few years and not be fooled again. -Wikid77 (talk) 00:15, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
- No you made uninformed statements implying that both Fozzie and I were immature and not sensible enough to be admins. The least you need to do is acknowledge that you were talking out of your hat on that one. Spartaz Humbug!01:36, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
- Please, all of you, ) 20:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
- No you made uninformed statements implying that both Fozzie and I were immature and not sensible enough to be admins. The least you need to do is acknowledge that you were talking out of your hat on that one.
May 2013 - I have blocked you for one month
You seem to be completely incapable of droping your vendetta against Dicklyon. The AE explicitly did not accept your complaint and yet here were are again at ANI with another fatuous complaint of more of the same and failure to back away. Given your unwillingness to compromise, I see no option but to exclude you from editing for a month to demonstrate that the community will not tolerate any further disruption of this type. I'm confident that you will recieve a much longer break if you insist on repeating this behaviour when you return.
- What AE said was that of the six statements, three crossed the line, and as a result, Dicklyon was reminded to not continue. Since then there has been no abatement of the inappropriate behavior that has been going on for many years, although looking back at the last RFC/U, at least Dicklyon has not been calling editors names anymore, so that is a huge improvement, but if on a scale of 1 to 10 name calling is a 1 and a 6 is minimum acceptable behavior, they are making progress, but still not acting appropriately. I recommend either long blocks or yet another RFC/U. In my case, blocks are absurd, because I am not the problem, nor is there anything wrong with any of my edits. In the face of all of the incivility I simply respond professionally and report inappropriate actions to appropriate venues, in this case AE and ANI. It is Dicklyon who has been harassing me, and not in appropriate forums, but in guideline and article discussions. Apteva (talk) 17:48, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Apteva (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
What I will, do though, to make everyone happy, is promise to avoid Dicklyon for the balance of the block period, ending on June 23, 2013, and not bring up their incivility in any forum, on or off wiki, during that period. It will be up to others to do that, should it continue. Blocks are preventative, not punitive, so that agreement will be more beneficial to Wikipedia.
the block is in fact not necessary to prevent damage or disruption
the block is no longer necessary because you understand what you are blocked for, you will not do it again, and you will make productive contributions
Decline reason:
Reviewing the statement you've made, I do not have the necessary confidence to unblock you. You blame the other person for your own misbehavior, and the way you put a limit on your agreement makes me think that as soon as the block would have expired, you would be back to what got us here. As such, I'm going to decline to unblock. SirFozzie (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
- Acknowledging your email. I have removed the gender specific term as requested. Spartaz Humbug!20:06, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. That is very important to me, and it needs to be assumed that it might be important to everyone. It is just basic common courtesy today. Also, I was pretty sure that I had mentioned that, so it made me wonder if the thread was even read before closing it: "It is the results that I am looking for, no calling me by gendered pronouns, no calling me you, no talking about me in a discussion about something else."Apteva (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
I did not at any time "misbehave" and I am blaming no one for my actions. I was blocked ostensibly to stop me from bringing administrative action against one editor, who has been a problem for a long time, and whom I am willing to avoid during the period of the block. If they are abusing me they are of a certainty abusing others as well and someone else can deal with them, I have no reason to do so. And what ever happened to AGF? It is very clear that if "as soon as the block would have expired, you would be back to what got us here", then what is the point of the block at all? I am not going to return now or ever to "the behavior that got me here", as it was not my behavior that got me here. All we are discussing though, is the period of the block, as what I do after the block expires is not affected by the block, as at that point in time I will be unblocked, and can either choose to self destruct by immediately filing another ANI, etc. and no one is that stupid, not even me. So by declining to unblock, you are categorically saying "I do not believe you", which is the exact opposite of "assume good faith", and extremely poor conduct on the part of any admin. The blocking reason states "Disruptive editing: Complete failure to drop the stick". It is never disruptive to call attention to the inappropriate behavior of another editor. I do a lot of RCP, and no one says, oh I guess vandalism is allowed today, and no one needs to get harassed and say, oh I guess that is acceptable here on Wikipedia, and I better not bring it up, because I might get blocked, instead of the offending editor. I really find this an absurd state of affairs for Wikipedia to allow. So the choice is lose yet another valuable editor for a month or unblock and allow me to go on being a productive editor. If I ever so much as give any hint of poking the bear, as the expression goes, or initiate any disciplinary actions against this editor during this time period, you and any admin have my full permission to block me as a preventative action. It simply is not going to happen. There are too many things that need to be fixed and too few of us willing to help for me to be willing to let that happen. Apteva (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
TLDR version. I never have done anything inappropriate, and will not give anyone the satisfaction of doing anything that anyone would disapprove of, as there is too much work here that needs to be done. Per
) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)In the meantime I will post below edits that if anyone agrees with them they can make. Per blocking policy, they may only be made if you agree that they are something that you would like to do. Apteva (talk) 23:30, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Edit requests
Date | Backlog | Change |
---|---|---|
May 22 | 122 | +29 |
May 23 | 124 | +2 |
May 24 | 123 | -1 |
May 25 | 101 | -22 |
May 26 | 95 | -6 |
May 27 | 100 | +5 |
May 28 | 92 | -8 |
May 29 | 94 | +2 |
May 30 | 83 | -11 |
May 31 | 66 | -17 |
Jun 1 | 80 | +14 |
Jun 2 | 71 | -9 |
Jun 3 | 73 | +2 |
Jun 4 | 78 | +5 |
Jun 5 | 61 | -17 |
Jun 6 | 42 | -19 |
Jun 7 | 45 | +3 |
Jun 8 | 38 | -7 |
Jun 9 | 44 | +6 |
- Users are not co-opting the article into anything. The article was written specifically to address exactly what it currently covers. It never has covered anything else so there is nothing to co-opt. A discussion was held on the talk page whether to expand the scope and there was a clear concensus not to do so. The rest of your rant is just bollocks attempting to divert attention from the real goal. The idea of the international space station having a 420km long lead to connect it to a mains supply is just plain whacky. I B Wright (talk) 15:07, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- I am guessing that the article title has changed, but when it was written it was only about AC/DC electronics, but that was quickly changed to AC/DC equipment, which is a broader topic. Electrical includes appliances and electronics, appliances only appliances, although a radio could be considered an appliance. If there was an article called AC/DC electronics there would still need to be a broader article about AC/DC (electrical). I believe that originally a slash (/) was not allowed in article titles, but this was created in 2008, probably long after that restriction no longer existed. Is I B Wright really an appropriate username? I mean I know that sometimes I might be right, but all the time? I see it has been in use since 2006, but 747 is not a whole lot of edits, and if it becomes a problem, a new one can be chosen using the WP:CHU/Simple process. There is way too much incivility going on at the talk page. I would assume that the editor, who has been editing the article for some time, who did the revert of the IP edit revert was not even aware of this user talk page, but if they wander this way they can confirm or deny that. I am not going to summon them hither. The ISS generates its own power from solar panels. Where power comes from does not determine if it is a "mains" or not. Apteva (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
- I am guessing that the article title has changed, but when it was written it was only about AC/DC electronics, but that was quickly changed to AC/DC equipment, which is a broader topic. Electrical includes appliances and electronics, appliances only appliances, although a radio could be considered an appliance. If there was an article called AC/DC electronics there would still need to be a broader article about AC/DC (electrical). I believe that originally a slash (/) was not allowed in article titles, but this was created in 2008, probably long after that restriction no longer existed. Is I B Wright really an appropriate username? I mean I know that sometimes I might be right, but all the time? I see it has been in use since 2006, but 747 is not a whole lot of edits, and if it becomes a problem, a new one can be chosen using the
- The article title has never changed. The article scope has never changed. It was written from day one to cover AC/DC vacuum tube receivers and nothing else. One or two editors have tried to expand the coverage, but it has been quickly reverted. Why do you believe that I B Wright is not an appropriate account name? The international space station's power arrangements are a complete red herring. Any equipment on board is designed to run from a 48 volt DC supply only (if indeed that is the supply system). None of it is likely to have been designed to run from any AC system if there is not AC supply on board. In any case vehicle supplies (of whatever size) are never described as 'mains' electricity. However, since you now are officially a disruptive editor, there is no need to continue this pointless discussion further. I B Wright (talk) 14:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to discuss the article, which is instead at WP:RM, and work toward becoming an admin. I would be doing a great deal more, and will again, as soon as the sanctions I am currently, and absurdly, under, are removed. Note also, that the admin who blocked me, and the two who reviewed the block appeal, have disrupted the progress of building an encyclopedia by temporarily stopping me from editing. Apteva (talk) 19:01, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to discuss the article, which is instead at
- The article title has never changed. The article scope has never changed. It was written from day one to cover AC/DC vacuum tube receivers and nothing else. One or two editors have tried to expand the coverage, but it has been quickly reverted. Why do you believe that I B Wright is not an appropriate account name? The international space station's power arrangements are a complete red herring. Any equipment on board is designed to run from a 48 volt DC supply only (if indeed that is the supply system). None of it is likely to have been designed to run from any AC system if there is not AC supply on board. In any case vehicle supplies (of whatever size) are never described as 'mains' electricity. However, since you now are officially a disruptive editor, there is no need to continue this pointless discussion further. I B Wright (talk) 14:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
{{
- Requested move template needs to be subst'd for the reason to display at WP RM
- To fix these, remove /dated, and add subst:, delete the dup sig that is created:
{{subst:Requested move|A Lot Like Love}}
- Talk:A Lot like Love#Move?
- Talk:Augusta Charter Township, Michigan#Move? (closed now)
- Talk:Laisvės alėja#Move?
- Talk:Luís de Matos#Move?
- Talk:Stuyvesant Street (Manhattan)#Move?
- Talk:Bonjour tristesse (film)#Requested movethis one was originally subst'd as a multimove but then changed and needs to be corrected so the reason displays (the easiest way to do this is to re-subst it as a single requested move)
- Talk:Tatler (1901)#Move
- Talk:Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)#Requested move 6 (June 2013)(delete the RM template, as it is superseded by the RfC)
- Talk:Operation Golden Eye#Move?
- Talk:Cinema (Karsh Kale album)#Requested_move
- Talk:Ji-Lu Mandarin#Move?
- Talk:Idolator (website)#Move?
- Civility enforcement
- Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/coordination – stalled, no action since February 2013. 22 out of 107 phase one comments have been reviewed, none of the 116 phase two responses have been reviewed.
--Apteva (talk) 21:45, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Factual correction to Criticism of Wikipedia#Expansion of administrator authority – having admins or sysops is a feature of the software that has always existed,[7] so reword the first sentence to avoid implying that Wikipedia created the concept of sysops, which predated Wikipedia by at least 30 years, to say:
To reduce vandalism and to control user conduct, a class of volunteer administrators or "sysops" are invested with the means and authority to discipline users.
Also correct the gender specific "his peers" in the last sentence of the first paragraph of that section to say "their peers". -- Apteva (talk) 03:47, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
- Done talk) 05:17, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
{{help me}}
- Waltham
Add to
Waltham is a small city (population about 60,000) that does not have much crime. There were two murders in 1989, 1997, 2001, 2003, and 2010, and one in 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1999, and 2002. There were no murders in Waltham in 1991, 1993, 1995, 1998, 2000, and 2004 through 2009. The average murder rate is 1.25 per year per 100,000 population. This murder would not even have an article if it was not for the uber attention to the Boston Marathon bombing (created 23 April 2013), and would probably not survive an AfD. Apteva (talk) 03:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I believe you've been told before, but please don't expect to be able to participate in discussions through proxy editing while blocked. Blocks are on the person - you. Not the account. Thus, anyone making edits as/for you puts you in violation of your block. Please cease using the helpme template for this purpose as well, as it clogs up any requests that actually need answering when patrollers must come answer this as well. I make no comment on the block, just that you are blocked, thus cannot edit or participate by proxy. Charmlet (talk) 03:33, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- @Charmlet, you are correct, but aren't you supposed to be avoiding controversy as part of the community allowing you to continue editing? I suggest you avoid talk page commentary and Wikipedia space and edit articles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:36, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I didn't realize this was supposed to be that controversial, I was just reminding the user of something they had already been told, as I don't enjoy getting helpme template messages to all helpers for things like this. Like I said multiple times, I wasn't commenting on the block, only on the fact that the helpme template isn't for this kind of thing. I'm done here now, since you requested. Charmlet (talk) 03:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I see we have the blind leading the blind. Per WP:Block "Wikipedians in turn are not permitted to post or edit material at the direction of a blocked editor (sometimes called proxy editing or proxying) unless they can show that the changes are either verifiable or productive and they have independent reasons for making such edits." Normally editors are blocked because there is no chance that they would provide anything useful. I did not provide a link to the information, and "left that up to the student". Had someone simply cut and pasted that onto the talk page without reading it or agreeing with it, they could be guilty of proxy editing (they, not me). I am not trying to get anyone in trouble, but I am interested in doing what I can to assist the project while I can not edit directly. There are many avenues still open to me, and one of them is to use the helpme template, but per concern of there not being enough editors watching that cat, I will reserve that use for more important issues, like submitting any unblock requests. Apteva (talk) 04:02, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- @Charmlet, you are correct, but aren't you supposed to be avoiding controversy as part of the community allowing you to continue editing? I suggest you avoid talk page commentary and Wikipedia space and edit articles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:36, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
RfA
Hi there. Like said, wait until your block expires for you to do all the actions I told you to do. AquaLogoOfTwitter (talk) 16:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
- Not sure how one edit can be called "Long-term abuse". The suggested actions though were completely absurd, and would have, if followed, immediately resulted in a long term block. Thanks, but no thanks. Apteva (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
Defining long term blocks
There are three categories of long term blocks. First are the constant vandals who never have any interest in assisting the encyclopedia, rarely create a user name, and as a result only receive short term blocks, but are initiated repeatedly, with the same affect as a long term block. Second are the long term vandals who build up sufficient history to be identifiable, and every time they are blocked simply create another sockpuppet. These are all indefinitely blocked, but often make some useful edits. Some have behavioral difficulties that make them unable to work well in a collaborative environment and will attempt to hijack articles with their point of view. These are topic banned, but since the topic they are banned from is really the only topic they are interested in editing, the topic ban is ineffectual. The third type is the long term editor such as User:Rich Farmbrough or User:Pmanderson, each with over 50,000 edits, each of whom was perceived as problematic at some point and received escalated blocks of a year (the first just now begun, the second just now ended).
These long term blocks hurt Wikipedia more than it helps. Since 2007, Wikipedia has been losing editors, first because of robo-warning new editors, and second, because of long term editors getting tired about "arguing with morons about trivia".
A short term block of 24 hours is usually at least five times longer than it needs to be. The normal attention span on the Internet is about 8 seconds, and beyond that the individual moves on to something else more interesting. Blocks are always preventative, never punitive, but none of the long term blocks can ever be described as preventative. The only thing they prevent is contributions. They do not magically stop all vandalism, or magically stop all POV editing.
A better definition of a long term block would be a week. While no one wants a vandal coming back in a week, the fact is that that even with an indefinite block they come back far sooner than a week, if they choose, and there is nothing that can be done to prevent that, short of locking down the entire encyclopedia from all edits. The ones who are affected by a week long block do not need to be blocked, because they are not creating sockpuppets and instead are waiting out the block. If they have the patience to wait out a block for a week, they have the patience to find a useful edit, and do not need to be blocked.
Wikipedia is shooting itself in the foot, and needs to take corrective action. The first step is to eliminate blocks of longer than one week, and instead of escalated blocks lasting 31 hours/1 week/1 month/1 year, use ones that last 1 hour/3 hours/24 hours/1 week. Each additional week that a productive editor is blocked would unnecessarily result in the loss of hundreds of valuable edits.
The only thing that all of us has is our time, and it can never be saved up or given to anyone else, and when it is lost, it is lost forever. Apteva (talk) 00:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- Exactly. The time that dozens of editors wasted on dealing with your nonsense will never be recovered. Hopefully we will at least prevent a reoccurrence of that waste. The fact that you use your time off in denial is not, however, a good omen of what to expect when your block expires. Dicklyon (talk) 01:56, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- Facts are facts. I am a productive editor whom blocking is about as idiotic as blocking User:Jimbo Wales or User:Larry Sanger. If it takes half a million bytes to decide if someone is a problem, the problem lies elsewhere. Apteva (talk) 02:13, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I think Dicklyon's point is well made: just as a block prevents a user from contributing as he or she might wish, involving the community in lengthy and repetitious disputes also prevents otherwise productive editors from focusing on worthwhile contributions to the encyclopedia. If one's goal is to give editors more freedom to improve and contribute to Wikipedia (and that's certainly an excellent goal), then I think it's good to keep this in mind. ╠╣uw [talk] 19:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- That was already pointed out when the RFC/U was opened, that it served no purpose and was solely done to disrupt Wikipedia to make a point. In real life I create tons of things, just as many of us do (one of whom I believe may be working on their second book), but in Wikipedia, I do not create anything, I document them in Wikipedia, using verifiable, reliable sources. We are prohibited from creating our own content, and that is one of Wikipedia's weaknesses – we do not allow experts to create articles as is normally done when an encyclopedia is written (go find some experts on the subjects and ask them to write articles). We can of course, copy in early encyclopedias, but some (a few) things have changed in the intervening years. Apteva (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I think Dicklyon's point is well made: just as a block prevents a user from contributing as he or she might wish, involving the community in lengthy and repetitious disputes also prevents otherwise productive editors from focusing on worthwhile contributions to the encyclopedia. If one's goal is to give editors more freedom to improve and contribute to Wikipedia (and that's certainly an excellent goal), then I think it's good to keep this in mind. ╠╣uw [talk] 19:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Template:Mrv
Sorry to see that you've been blocked. It's sad to see good editors like you and Rich F. get blocked. No one gets things to go their way on every issue. You should learn to accept consensus decisions when they go against your views. You can continue to make arguments in support of your positions, and hope that eventually the crowd will change their mind and get it right. But you might have better luck if you do this by more subtle means that are not widely viewed as disruptive. (I haven't been paying attention, so I don't know the reasons for your block) Best wishes, Wbm1058 (talk) 15:11, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Soliciting for other editors and use of {{WP:AN
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Using Help me, blocked users and proxy editing". Thank you.
I appreciate that you're blocked from replying there, so as the editor who raised this, I have some responsibility for giving you a voice. Oddly as it would seem, given the background to this issue, I will endeavour to cross-post any reasonable messages that you might wish into that thread (although other editors are of course welcome to do so first). Andy Dingley (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- There is likely nothing that I could add that any other intelligent editor could not add. Blocks are never punitive, and solely preventative. My block is inappropriate because it is solely punitive and is not one iota preventative. Contributions are welcome from everyone, regardless of their status, and however they are received. This includes from a sockmaster that has been blocked a thousand times as well as from someone who never registers an account. We learn about some edits that need to be made from reading about them in the Daily Post, and some from someone making the edit. All that matters is that this is a world class encyclopedia, and we accomplish that through the five pillars, which is why the welcome notice with a link to them is displayed always on my talk page. There is much that I would be able to contribute but that I can not both because of being blocked but also because of being under silly sanctions which will be appealed soon. Apteva (talk) 19:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I have posted this across to AN. Just a thought but carrying on as if you are an innocent victim is bound to end in tears. I don't think I ever saw so much lack of self-awareness and intransigence in the 7 years I have been on wiki. If you continue your crusade when your block expires you should be aware that further blocking is inevitable. Spartaz Humbug!20:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- I have posted this across to AN. Just a thought but carrying on as if you are an innocent victim is bound to end in tears. I don't think I ever saw so much lack of self-awareness and intransigence in the 7 years I have been on wiki. If you continue your crusade when your block expires you should be aware that further blocking is inevitable.
- I would echo what Spartaz has said here, and Dicklyon's "in denial" comment above. There is an issue here, and you're obviously unaware of it. Until you realise that, then I see little hope of progress. Your self-comparison to Jimbo is ludicrous.
- As to your point here, then you are blocked. I make no comment on this. However you've now managed to take your behaviour since blocked and to turn that into a whole new problem too. You can at least address that, but if you instead focus on why everyone else is wrong in blocking you, we're likely to block you even more "wrongly" and for longer and longer. Dicklyon's comment, "The time that dozens of editors wasted on dealing with your nonsense will never be recovered." is apposite here: Wikipedia regrets that wasted time and will act to reduce its likelihood in the future – probably by blocking you until you vanish. Better editors than you have already been removed in such a manner, whether deservedly or not. This will happen again in your case, and Wikipedia won't bat an eyelid. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry to disagree, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it is not, well there is a whole list of things it is not. We have brought it about half way to becoming a world class encyclopedia, no not even that (by measure of what would be left is only FA articles are included), and our sole goal here is to make it better, not worse. Along the way we have occasionally made one step forward and two steps backwards. We can never lose sight of our purpose here and degenerate into name calling or anything else that will detract from our purpose. All of the time spent complaining about me was wasted (500,000 bytes, about 134 pages), as it could have been accomplished with two words by any admin (and no those two words are not "I have blocked you"). Nothing I have ever done has been done other than to improve the encyclopedia. No one can be ranked as better or worse than anyone else. Wikipedia depends on the contributions of everyone, and if better editors than me have left, that is Wikipedia's problem, and needs to be addressed. Apteva (talk) 21:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
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Did not realize anyone was going to be so eager to post everything here there and I ask that not be continued. As to
Note to BYK. I am tenacious (a good quality), not tendentious (a bad quality). There is a huge difference. But I am not "he", "she", a "guy" or a "gal", but an editor. Thanks. Apteva (talk) 22:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- Per the above thread, I have locked your talkpage access. Please see my closing comment for reasoning. Black Kite (talk) 22:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
- Improvements are always welcome regardless of who, what, how, why, or when they are received. Blocked means we do not have to undo anything, but obviously blocked and banned editors are encouraged to offer suggestions, by whatever means they may have available. Talk page, tweeter, etc. Apteva (talk) 03:44, 28 June 2013 (UTC)