welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Someguy1221 08:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply
]
Verifiable conspiracy theories
Not only is that an oxymoronic statement, there's no proof of conspiracy there - the refs we have in the article debunk the "Masonic architecture" and "Founding Fathers were all Masons" theories. Saying that politicians are Masons also isn't really a "conspiracy" either. MSJapan (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Generally speaking, verifiable material isn't "conspiracy theory". "So-and-so was a Freemason" is not the same as "Freemasons faked the moon landings" - the latter is a conspiracy theory, the former is a fact. There's no conspiracy when the information isn't hidden, and when a theory is provable, it's no longer a theory. So in my view, there's no such thing as a provable Masonic conspiracy theory. Also, your architecture claim is flat-out wrong; see here, and again, it's not a conspiracy. MSJapan (talk) 15:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Proof of membership is not proof of conspiracy. Somehow it makes a difference if somebody famous is a Mason, but the other 4 million never factor into the equation. You could just as well say there's an Ivy League conspiracy in politics; it's more a function of what will capture the public's imagination.
The politicians on whom we have membership info clearly did not hide their membership, or otherwise we wouldn't know about it. I think all the major American politicians that are verifiably Masons are already on the list. Note that Thomas Jefferson is not verifiable, and neither Bush is a Mason. Clinton was in DeMolay, but never became a Mason. The last President to be a Mason was Ford. Verifiability means a Lodge or Grand Lodge has a record of the member, and there's no such thing as being a member off the books.
So, I don't really think there's anything that fits into your category, but I would suggest giving your argument on the article's talk page before doing anything directly to the article so other people can weigh in on it. MSJapan (talk) 15:25, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if we missed a few, by all means add them in to the list, but keep in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that deals with facts; it is not meant to be an arena for speculation or to state your own research.
However, in that vein of history, it is just as valid to state that the principles of the Declaration of Independence and other founding documents are a byproduct of Enlightenment thinking, just as Freemasonry was, meaning that even if you want to posit a connection, it could be a parallel one that can be tied to the same earlier social/philosophical impetus, as opposed to a direct cause and effect relationship. MSJapan (talk) 16:26, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.
For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria
for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. --Finngalltalk 16:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply
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