User talk:Gatoclass/Archive 13

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Archive for July to September 2010


More "Kundalini Syndrome"

It has been my intention to counter some of the scary aspects of this article. What I did was read Dr. Kason's book, then jump right in without questioning the fundamental assumption that there is a Kundalini Syndrome that is recognized in psychiatry and listed in the APA Diagnostic and Statistical Manual on Mental Disorders IV. I also just assumed that the term had originated with Dr. Kason because she is so widely cited in the article and she does refer to kundalini in her book.

On further examination however, I have come to see the APA text does not even mention anything to do with kundalini. And neither Kason, Scotton nor Sovatsky - whose works I have been able to obtain - call it a syndrome.

I have also now become aware of the history of this article. It was originally just a copy and paste from the article on kundalini. I have also now read someone's lengthy remarks in the discussion under the title "Physio-Kundalini Syndrome - Kundalini experience/awakening". Their statement (in bold) that "Prana is basically a belief in magic" is simply outrageous and insulting to the millions who practice yoga daily - as is much of the rest of what they say.

What I like about Kason's work is:

  • her disposition AGAINST treating what she prefers to call Spiritually Transformative Experiences (STEs) as psychotic episodes. In her words: "This is why one of the reasons why labeling Spiritually Transformative Experiences can be so useful. Giving an unusual experience a non-pathological name - and learning that it has parallels in many cultural and spiritual traditions - helps us integrate it into our lives." (Kason, p. 56)
  • her assessment that mainstream psychiatry can be woefully incompetent in how it understands people undergoing STEs. In her words: "Dr. David Lukoff is one of the people working to heighten people's awareness... He has (also) put forward the idea that, although some people have mystical experiences that are associated with transient psychosis, these experiences are quite different from other types of psychoses in that they are relatively short-lived and tend to eventually resolve themselves spontaneously as long as the person is simply cared for supportively rather than being hospitalized in a psychiatric ward, labeled as delusional, and automatically medicated with the major tranquilizers used in these settings." (Kason, p. 256)

So - to get to the point - I would hope you would agree to one of three things:

  • to get rid of the article;
  • rename it "Physio-Kundalini Syndrome" because that term is use - but only by Greyson and Herrick;
  • allowing me to significantly edit the article beginning with the opening sentence which I added when I did not know better: "Kundalini syndrome is a term coined by transpersonal psychotherapist Yvonne Kason, M.D. in her book Farther Shores (1994)..." (It is not.) and adding to it some balancing information from the Kundalini Yoga traditions of Swami Sivananda Radha, Swami Muktananda, Swami Vivekananda, Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda and Yogi Bhajan. I know you deleted the Yogi Bhajan material because you felt it was overdone. Can we agree to either balancing this bogus article or getting rid of it entirely?Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 16:21, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


Thank you Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa for your dedicated research and review of the sourced materials for this topic. Your contributions as such add greatly to the improvements of such articles on Wikipedia. It would appear that this article and could be improved further under the rules of Verifiability and giving

Pseudoscience and related fringe theories
to help improve your contributions on this article.

You make some well researched and valid points here. Gatoclass will probably not be qualified to respond to this, as his special focus is on articles relating to history and historical wars. Your first step would be to explore the Medical Research community and posting up your questions and requests on the Editor Assistance boards and then make contact Wikipedia's many Medical experts to achieve consensus on the changes. This will help strengthen your case for your improvements. Ultimately, you may consider posting this information on the Fringe Theories Noticeboard, and at which point you may request the aid of other Administrators who will aid you in speeding up the approval of your proposed changes. RogerThatOne72 (talk) 07:06, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


Thanks. It's coming together. In my view, the biggest underlying problem with this article has been its ignorance of the original Western and Eastern sources on this subject. We have a bit of representation from the Eastern side now, but the yogis never called it a "syndrome". And now at last, I have been able to find Itzhak Bentov's book wherein he coined the term. That book had never even been mentioned in this article. Lee Sannella's work seminal work from 1976 has also remained uncited. I hope to have that soon.Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 21:41, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Kindly stop using my talk page as a chat page. This page is for comments addressed to me, not a venue for third parties to talk to one another. The appropriate venue for discussing content related to the
Kundalini syndrome article is Talk:Kundalini syndrome. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk
) 22:19, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Again?!

You said you are not interested in reviewing my DYK nominations. After that you tried to "maybe" one, expressed sorrow that you've missed another, and here we go again [1] What sources you did not like that time in the article that describes an event from 500 ED, and when you will keep your own promise and leave my nominations alone?--Mbz1 (talk) 13:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I never promised to leave your noms alone. Given that you have had difficulty in the past complying with DYK guidelines, it would be remiss of me not to check your submissions. I do try to leave decisions about your articles as much as practicable in the hands of other reviewers, but when I see obvious problems I am obliged to point them out.
In this particular case, if you take a careful look at the first reference in your article, the one simply entitled "Hymarite", you will see that it is in fact sourced back to Wikipedia. As Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source, you will need to find a reliable source for that info if you want it to stay in the article. Gatoclass (talk) 13:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
You are mistaking, it is you, who had difficulties complying with DYK guidelines, when you removed my nomination fro the Queue, and were advised about it.
The reference you did not like is gone. Please take your "maybe" off, or come up with a new reason for it.--Mbz1 (talk) 13:44, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
I'm just rechecking the article now. Gatoclass (talk) 13:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Left a note there. You need to either find an additional cite or refactor the hook. Gatoclass (talk) 14:38, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


The hook is changed, the additional sources are found. Looking forward for more obstacles to my nomination. --Mbz1 (talk) 15:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 5 July 2010

July 2010

Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors. Thank you. Epeefleche (talk) 21:21, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

How come

you promoted the DYK for this article Hank Erickson, which is completely missing any reference for the section "Early career", but never stoped scrutinizing my articles over, and over, and over again? BTW it is not the first time you promote the articles that are missing references.--Mbz1 (talk) 23:37, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

SS Pacific

All materials in article have been thoroughly researched, referenced and posted. Please refrain from personal edits such as "quote bogus." Surely you agree removing properly researched and cited material without confirming its authenticity discourages the open forum and contributions Wikipedia is based upon. Ha68739 (talk) 20:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)HA68739

Hi

Hi Gato, thanks for helping me out with the article. One more editor supported it on DYK nomination. I do not mind deleting the quote from archeological finding section, and IMO the only issue we have to deal with are the dates. Most sources state it was about 500 ED. IMO it is not very important, if it was 500 ED or 420 ED, but if you believe it should be mentioned somewhere in the article, probably you could do a better job on it than I can, and then I hope you'll be able to take your objections out and let your article :) a green light.--Mbz1 (talk) 05:37, 9 July 2010 (UTC)


Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad
article

Hi just a word of advice. When citing references you should not really say google books. The real source would be

  • History of the Jews, Volume 3
  • History of the Jews, Heinrich Graetz
  • Authors Heinrich Graetz, Bella Löwy, Philipp Bloch
  • Publisher , 1902
  • Subjects Jews

Google books is merely a tool for holding the book. Please address this in your article. You should include the author, title, publisher, page number etc rather than saying "google books". Thanks.

"History of the Jews - Google Books". Books.google.com. Retrieved July 9, 2010.

This is not the way it should be done. It should say

  • "History of the Jews", Volume 3, Jewish Publication Society of America, 1902 {{citation}}: Cite uses deprecated parameter |authors= (help)

Some of the others need fixing too. Dr. Blofeld White cat 09:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Well I didn't add those sources, but you are quite correct about that. I am not going to disqualify this for DYK on those grounds however, as this article has already been the subject of considerable discussion. It can be fixed later. Gatoclass (talk) 09:33, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Urgent DYK nomination

Hi Gatoclass, I draw your attention to this 11 July 2010 nomination, which I have hosted under the special occasion holding area. I believe both articles are appropriate for nomination, and I hope to have the hook published on the Main Page during 11 July, which also is the FIFA World Cup 2010 Final day. In fact, it would be excellent to place the hook in the right queue so that it comes out during the time period of the Final match which begins at UTC 20:30. I sincerely hope you find this request appropriate and relevant. Thanks, and great job as DYK caretaker! AngChenrui (talk) 06:07, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

TCO. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks again

You are really doing a great job on

Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad, and I mean it! I will for sure ask for your help next time I write an article :) Thanks. --Mbz1 (talk
) 15:26, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but as I said earlier, the time I can spend assisting other users with their articles is strictly limited given my other Wiki-activities. And of course, just because you happen to approve of my edits this time, does not necessarily mean you would do so on another occasion. Gatoclass (talk) 15:42, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Gato, I am not a hard-headed person. If I see a rationale behind the edits, I have no difficulties in approving them even, if I do not like them, and besides, I always appreciate the work other editors are doing, and as I said above you have done lot's of work on the article.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, good. Hopefully next time I feel the need to do some work on one of your articles, it won't result in the same sort of wikidrama. Gatoclass (talk) 15:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad