User talk:Hercelin

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Theroadislong (talk) 20:46, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi Hercelin... with due respect, may I ask how you know Amy Bell was adopted by Henry Goodeve? The reference in Amy's article is the obituary of 1920 which says she was the daughter of a medical man of considerable ability, and the only reference I see on Goodeve's article is the Medical Biographies one which says he had no children of his own and adopted a son and some others. Feel free to call out to me if you think I might help. Whispyhistory (talk) 16:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You raise a point that is actually quite important - now I look again, I wrote that she was "formally" adopted by the Goodeves, but I actually can't find specific documentation or sourcing to that effect, so that may be too strong a claim (for now). However, Amy Bell was certainly raised by Henry and Isabel Goodeve as one of his several (formally? informally?) adopted children after she was orphaned in Bangkok, per the following sources (which I also cited in Bell's article):

- Bell's friend Edith C Wilson (who I believe was a fellow suffragette from a look through the British Newspaper Archive, but I haven't confirmed for sure yet) wrote a letter to Common Cause after Bell's death which clarified some extra biographical details that were missed in the original obituary, including that Henry Goodeve raised her, paid for a tutor, etc

- Charlotte Bell's probate in 1859 details an estate left behind worth £4,000, and that her brother John Francis Erskine Goodeve was Amy's designated guardian (Henry Goodeve was Charlotte and John's uncle on their father's side)

- She then pops up as part of Henry and Isabel Goodeve's household at Cook's Folly in the 1861, 1871, and 1881 censuses, as late as her early-20s, although, curiously, while in 1861 her relation to Henry is listed as "daughter", in 1871 and 1881 she's listed as "great-niece" (so maybe proof it wasn't a firmly defined relationship?)

- When Henry Goodeve died, Bell was one of the three executors of his estate (along with Henry Hills Goodeve and Sophie Goodeve Barlow), which would imply that she was among his closest surviving family at the time

There's also this blog post from historian and genealogist Lucy Whitfield which has a lot more information about Bell's early life in particular, but since she doesn't cite her primary sources I felt it better not to lean on her work. Of the primary sources I've found that match her account more widely, though, I haven't found anything contradictory (such as the letters from Bowring complaining about how "idle" Amy's father Charles was in Bangkok).

I imagine someone like Henry Goodeve left behind a lot of personal papers that could clarify whether their great-uncle/great-niece relationship was ever formalized as father-daughter, but I have no idea if they still survive somewhere in an archive or library. From these genealogical and newspaper sources it seems fairly clear that he was the main paternal figure in her life, though. If you dig anything else up I'd be very interested to know.Hercelin (talk) 17:42, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A very detailed reply...thank you. I suggest adding your references straight after each sentence in Amy and Henry's articles as you have explained above so that anyone reading it can find the information in the citation. The blog is useful and interestingly it is another Whitfield (in good standing on history of Bristol) who recently published an account of Goodeve. I'll enquire about primary sources. Maybe someone else can advise on the blog but it is of use and maybe add to external links for time being. Goodeve helped several Indians in their careers and it looks like he encouraged women to be educated too. Not sure if this helps, but Ivy Evelyn Woodward was one article difficult to reference because secondary sources were not widely available. Quite common with women. Whispyhistory (talk) 18:38, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers for the tips, I appreciate the guidance from an old hand like yourself. I've edited Bell's page to be more liberal with sources - and yeah, Goodeve's a fascinating figure in himself here. Glad to have stumbled across him after stumbling across Bell's story. Looking forward to seeing if anything else comes out about his later life.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:23, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hercelin

Thanks for writing this piece on Amy Elizabeth Bell. However, I was disappointed to discover that much of the text has been taken from my earlier blog (published in July 2019) - https://thewomenwhomademe.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/amy-e-bells-story/ and this remains uncredited. Please either re-write the page in your own words, or give credit to the source it was taken from. www.lucywhitfieldhistorian.co.uk Katchuri (talk) 17:12, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“A Night to Remember” (1958), “ZULU” (1964), and “Where Eagles Dare” (1968), look they need a trimmed plot section too. 92.17.198.220 (talk) 09:09, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]