User talk:Johnkatz1972

Could you please reference your information? It is likely to be removed otherwise. Ironholds (talk) 11:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You've been repeatedly told and warned about this. Reference your articles; people who churn out unreferenced articles and stubbornly refuse to follow our guidelines are likely to be blocked. Ironholds (talk) 11:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I add notes to League of Nations Treaty Series. If I find the same publication online, I shall certainly add reference to that. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 11:43, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just added a link to

This is just to help make things a little easier for everyone. I apologize for any hurt feelings I may have caused.</s DS (talk) 13:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bleh, it seems you've already done that and I'm acting on information from a few weeks ago. Oops. DS (talk) 13:25, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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hi, i was just looking at the additions to the said article. if you look at the discussion page there, i feel that the possibility of having an interesting case study on diplomacy is being hijacked by the israel-palestinian thing. although - of course - the catholic church has a vested interest in this, i don't know if it's nearly as interesting as how 2 states that should not recognize eachother get around doing just that. would you agree that perhaps we concentrate all the palestinian-slash-peace process part at the end under separate headings and devote the biulk of the article to how relations between these 2 entities have developed over the years?Oferdesade (talk) 15:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I accept the criticism, and added some new sections on bilateral relations. I shall update them as I find more information on the subject. I still think a lot of work is to be done by me on the subject. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 13:46, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

good grief, forget criticism. katonti!! this is the first time i've ever done something like this. i havent the foggiest idea of what i'm doing. i'm only a dabbler in the topic. the israeli ambassador has taken an interest in this article (surprise surprise). he's a walking encyclopedia (you might want to click on the link to lewy) and more of an intellectual than a diplomat. would you like his help? also, are you in contact with vatican people (john allen is a great source) or minerbi in jerusalem (a true radical in the best sense of the word)? do you know who initiated this article? who added all the palestinian stuff and if that person might be interested in separating the two? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oferdesade (talk • contribs) 16:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's pleasure to know that someone is interested in my articles in Wikipedia. I understand you are from Israel, and so am I. I am not in touch right now with anyone from the Vatican, but I would like to have some contacts.Johnkatz1972 (talk) 16:25, 7 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

hiya, i've expanded on the new chapter and taken the liberty (i get paid to edit) of copy editing some of your material. dont you prefer that - instead of the stuff on the peace process and the palestinians getting burried in the chronological history of the popes - it all be put under the heading of "the palestinians and the peace process".Oferdesade (talk) 12:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I took your recommendation seriously, and decided that it be best to start a new entry, Holy See attitude towards the peace process. Any new information on the Vatican and the peace process will be added from now on to that section. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 14:14, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i saw. brilliant!! also i saw that there's a separate rtcl on the holy "c' & palestine (which hardly makes any mention of the christian constituency thereof, the splits into & of various churches... this is pure soap opera material). are you going to transfer all the material from HC-Is or leave at elast some reference. if the latter, do you want me to edit it down to what (italics)I consider pertinent or will you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oferdesade (talk • contribs) 08:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

also, rgd peace process, i suggest rename to middle east peace process. there is a regional aspect to this since the term holy land is a rather amorphous one: traditionally, it refers to all those locations where the testament took place , ie jordan, parts of egypt,syria, much wider than merely israel/palestine. considering the wildfire regarding christians in many of these locations, is there a vatican aspect of the "peace process" in iraq, egypt... that applies and has inner repurcussions (ie on their opinions vis-a-vis israel/palestine). it would be worth millions to get hold of the protocols of the synod ie what was said BEHIND closed doors and not to the press for the sake of appeasing host governments...Oferdesade (talk) 08:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it might be best to shorten references to Holy See positions regarding the peace process in the article on Israel-Vatican relations, now that the subject is treated in a separate entry. As for what was said behind closed doors at the synod, I have no way of knowing. Regarding other countries in the region, I think there might be other peace processes, like a possible peace process between the Iranian and Iraqi governments, but of course the Arab-Israeli peace process is the longest of them all, since it has not been resolved on the Syrian and Palestinian fronts. Of course some supporters of the Israeli government will claim that the Holy See's positions regarding the peace process derive from fear not to antagonize Arab governments, but the problem is that those who support the Israeli position do so in order not to risk their economic ties with Jerusalem, so in politics - be it pro or anti Israeli - there is no moral perfection but interests. And this is also true of Israeli policies and positions, so I really can't accept the position of depicting pro Israeli policies as good and ideal while anti Israeli policies as deriving from cold interests. Both derive from interests. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 15:19, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i was actually refering to just that - shortening the israel holyc aspects of peace process. as for the interests bit - i agree of course. in fact, id go one further: i dont believe that - except in the scatological sense - the holy c has any interests whatsoever except financial (a reason why they place more stress on the taxes and property issues than on the visas in discussions) as can be seen in their silence on so many things they should not be silence on. if anyone has vested interests in local governments it is the clergy representing host governments rather than their local parishes. this is oh-so clear regarding najuib and his about-face half way through the egypt thing, karkuk of iraq etc. ad nauseum. its not their anti israel stance that infuriates me but their total abandonment of the interests of their own parishes in order to stay on the good side of their host governments. if anything, i would have expected the holy c 2 say something about this now and then. as for their stances on the peace procvess, i have yet to hear something meaningful that doesnt straddle the fence. i'm not one who thinks they're anti-israel at all , in this regard. but to deny the input (be it quite impotent, at the end of the day) of palestinian christians into the general melange of spoken words would be boring.Oferdesade (talk) 08:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I now understand, and I think it might be good to rename the entry "Holy See Attitude to the ME peace process". In the section about Pius XII I added some reference to George Hakim (1908-2001) who advocated some pro Israeli policies in the 1950s, but I need some more information about him. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 09:51, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

hang on a bit w/p12. will be adding stuff over the next coupla days when i find some spare itme. it should have additional; refs. Oferdesade (talk) 11:05, 16 February 2011 (UTC) (keep forgetting to sign...)[reply]

as promised - added lotz 2day. please dont be deleting until beofre tuesday, by which time i'll be able to get some feedback before i cut it down myself. the rtcl is beginning to look like a 3rd testament :-) Oferdesade (talk) 15:43, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the new additions made, and I must say they are very informative and contributing to knowledge on these matters. The only change I made was to move one sentence about Pius XII to the beginning of the section, as it gives his regnal dates (1939-1958). Johnkatz1972 (talk) 14:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

tnx. much more 2 come on B16Oferdesade (talk) 08:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

just added stuff on JP2 & B16 visits from the diplomacy POV (ie the actual tachles of the visits themselves). i'd like 2 start cutting down the actual size. how much text do you think can be placed in the reference section - can these be actual footnotes or does it make the encylcopedia entry look 2 much like an academic rtcl? if you could take a look at some of those i've entered and let me know what you think (not content - form: too much?)Oferdesade (talk) 12:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

how does the idea strike you that - in order to prevent claims of duplication - the peace process sections under the various popes (JP2 & B16, actually) be renamed "multilateral affairs". that way they can encompass additional elements (not tht i can think of any right now, but egypt, iran - the vatican maintains ties; israel and the US are not thrilled, i take it - etc are possibilities)Oferdesade (talk) 12:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I really think that references to the peace process in the article on relations with Israel can now be reduced, while keeping the link to the article on Holy See attitudes about the peace process. I think it was very good to add a separate section on the two Papal visits to Israel (2000 and 2009). I was looking for some information about the Papal visit in 1964. It is important to remember that Paul VI visited Israel without mentioning its name, and that he held a brief meeting with President Shazar. Johnkatz1972 (talk) 10:02, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

sent you an email with proposal to change entire structure. take a look & let me know wot u think. also intend to add some stuff from wikileaks(?)Oferdesade (talk) 12:35, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DONE!!! take a look. i even managed to put in all the cross references to other articles (eg from specific popes on peace process to specific location in that article, relations with PA...) only thing - been asked not to refer to the ITF fiasco... i think i'll put it into that article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oferdesade (talk • contribs) 08:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is ITF fiasco? Johnkatz1972 (talk) 14:48, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

did i not correct that? i was asked not to include it, so there's a link under "uneven policy marked by changes of personnel" ...  :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oferdesade (talk • contribs) 16:12, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

hey! good 2 c u back. now that u r, if you have the time to go over all the deletions i made (under the ip address & put back what u think may be pertinent). like your addition of 7:03. was surprised by the lustiger story - not because we dont all know that lau is a feces-seeking headline hound but because lustiger was always so admired amongst most vatican operatives. minerbi and motti truly admired the man. can send u an article i received upon his death... problem with the 6:27 - some of it seems to me to be editorializing, but that's the journalist in me. i dont know what's acceptable in academic circles. Oferdesade (talk) 07:21, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you have any article about Lustiger, I would be happy to read it. I myself remember that in 1995 some students from Tel Aviv University held a demonstration against Lustiger's visit. I am also looking for informationa about that.Johnkatz1972 (talk) 07:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

lost your email. if u still have mine, drop me a line (rtather than posting it here, i would think) 93.44.208.188 (talk) 07:09, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, as helpful as it was to have an external link to an online version of Ware and Sherrard's version of the Philokalia, that's a copyright violation, so I removed the link. Too bad, because it's the best resource for that book, in my opinion. See

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Thank you. I'll remember to do so. My change was just to add another link about the biography of Calvin by Beza.Johnkatz1972 (talk) 09:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Unsourced. Xx236 (talk) 14:17, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi Johnkatz1972, I've moved

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I will try to find information about these subjects Johnkatz1972 (talk) 05:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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2601:249:9301:D570:C8F3:FCDB:9310:2406 (talk) 16:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how to correct this, as my experience is limited Johnkatz1972 (talk) 08:27, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]