User talk:Moonraker0022/Archive 3

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Moonraker0022 Talk Page Archive (July 2008 to June 2009)

Kansas City skyline picture

As a member of WikiProject Kansas City you may be interested in a skyline picture debate taking place at Talk:Kansas City, Missouri. If you would like, please stop by and voice your opinion. Grey Wanderer (talk) 18:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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NAIA pages

I do a search for articles with commonly misspelled words, then correct them. It's a silly hobby, but it keeps me editing. I use to write articles from stratch, but I don't have the time anymore. Clerks. (talk) 17:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello - Categories

Hi, you need to be more careful in your categorisation, for example, many of the cats you added here and here are a bit silly. The one that caught my eye was Category:Tennis - if you look at the contents of this category, you'll realise that these two articles do not belong in the general tennis category, and I'm sure the same is true for many of the other general sports categories you added. As a result, I have removed the non-college related ones. If you want to recategorise these articles, I suggest something more subtle, for example Category:Tennis organisations might be more appropriate for tennis, or you could create a Category:College tennis. Thanks, rst20xx (talk) 16:42, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merger

Hey there! I've set up some templates for

Wikipedia:Proposed_mergers to see if we can generate any discussion on whether or not we should have separate articles for history, athletics, buildings, awards, etc. I'd cast my vote with the idea that, if well-crafted, the content can all be included in the main article, but I don't feel as if one man's opinion matters quite enough to start creating and destroying willy-nilly. That said, I think we should be paying more attention to content and references than creating new things without content and/or references. We might even get a GA article if the former is our main focus. I apologise if I'm a bit indelicate in trying to relate my priorities; I hope my anticipation of umbrage is unwarranted! It's rather a source of frustration for me that I don't have enough published material on Nazarene schools to craft more comprehensive articles. Aepoutre (talk) 15:36, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

So, it looks like no one cares about us, haha. No one ever seems to comment on SNU matters I hope for input on, so it looks like it's up to you and me to build consensus until we can find other editors to work with. It might be a bit rough since it's not terribly democratic, but it should be fun. :) This is what I think: there's a distinct possibility that the number of user's comments is fairly proportional to the notability of a subject. Assuming that's true, I think it's safe to assume that making lots of really small articles on several interrelated topics isn't necessary. As I've said before, my philosophy is that it would be better if we could create comprehensive, well-written, well-sourced articles on things SNU-related. If articles get large enough to separate one day, that's great, but we can't get ahead of ourselves. That said, perhaps it might make sense to have an SNU Crimson Storm article, simply by virtue of DI, but I'm not convinced that the SNUPY Awards, at the very least, merit a separate article. We can at least merge that into the Crimson Storm article, or perhaps even into the SNU article under Student life. The Sawyer Center is still depressingly small, but has some good information that could have been (and still can be) used to beef up other articles. I know that you intend to enlarge these articles, but I still think you're working too hard on making lots of articles without making any of them substantial. I've really enjoyed teaming up with other editors to improve articles in the past, and I'd love to help out on more Nazarene articles, so let me know your thoughts. Collaboration, yes! --Aepoutre (talk) 19:27, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, ironically, we got some input on the SNU talk page today. Might even be a friend of yours! --Aepoutre (talk) 20:58, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I've never even been to the school. I troll around in the
College Football project and have taken an interest in NAIA schools. You've made some good efforts here -- keep it up!--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

timberwolf

can you send me a link of the discussion page? i dont rember anything about going on the timber wolf article...--Sonicobbsessed (talk) 01:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nazarene Church

I didn't orinally remove it. A previous editor removed it, and I saw it and got suspicious, as I know the Nazarene Church is protestant. I reverted the previous edit restoring the article to the protestant cat. However, never wanting to undoe someone else's edit without getting all my information, I visited the Category:Protestant churches page and read the statement at the top of the page which reads, "This category is for buildings that are used as churches. For classification by denominations, see Category:Religious faiths, traditions, and movements." As this article refers to a denomination and not a church building I agreed with the earlier edit and reverted my revert. Hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Ltwin (talk) 02:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NAIA Football Conferences template

Please hold off on replacing the Template:NAIA Football Conferences with Template:NAIA Conferences. The discussion on the deletion of the template is looking very much toward KEEP at Templates for Deletion. If the consensus swings and it goes to delete, then fine go ahead. But until the discussion is closed, it might be best to wait for the result.--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:23, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sawyer Center

Hey, I posted on Talk:Sawyer Center after reverting some of your recent edits. Remember that you need citations, no matter what you've heard. I need to be able to verify it, or it's not up to snuff. Also, keep in mind that even hidden, obvious non-NPOV statements hurt an editor's case and bely possible COI. I've said before that you need to focus on quality of information if you have any interest in making good SNU-related articles. I'm no expert, and ask a lot of advice from more experienced editors. Feel free to ask me for any help, of course, because I'd love to. Instead, we seem to be at odds over verifiability, mostly because of your POV, but I'd rather collaborate. Using talk pages for articles if you're unsure of anything is also very helpful, in my experience. Neither of us are immune to being wrong, of course, so those are especially helpful for getting others' opinions. Talk to you again soon! --Aepoutre (talk) 03:55, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OS

I'm a class of '03 alum. You? Ryan2845 (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

SNU template

Hey, I'm not worried about the template colours, so no worries there, but the process has made me curious about the college colours. First, I'm intrigued by the name "Crimson Storm" paired with the colour "Maroon". Second, since it seems fairly non-standard, are there really four colours (maroon, grey, white, and black)? Third, is there a media guide where you get your information? As to the last, having one might would eliminate some confusion, because I noticed the SNU article and the 'Storm article disagree and I can't find any sources myself. Talk to you soon! --Aepoutre (talk) 18:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, I just noticed that the women's volleyball colours are different yet again from the college and main athletics articles. I'm even more confused now. Didn't you write in the colours for each of these articles? --Aepoutre (talk) 19:01, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, I found it. They are crimson and white. See [1]. --Aepoutre (talk) 19:06, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the edits, but that is not the intended purpose of the template. It is for all aspects of SNU. See also: Template:University of Oklahoma, Template:University of North Texas, and another style Template:University of Kansas, Template:University of Southern California. The unused links are removed, so all that information is there, and is in a concise listing. Moonraker0022 (talk) 21:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, although I don’t think just changing redlinks to nonlinks is enough, and I don't think you quite understand where I'm coming from. Perhaps I'll try better explaining, and ask you to please read

Wikipedia:Navigation templates#Properties, under the heading "Navigation templates provide navigation" (emphasis not mine), where the first and third bullets comment on both ends of the spectrum: "The goal is not to cram as many related articles as possible into one space. Ask yourself, does this help the reader in reading up on related topics? Take any two articles in the template. Would a reader really want to go from A to B?" and "They should not be too small. A navigation template with less than a handful of links can easily be replaced by 'See also' sections, or relevant {{main}} and {{see also
}} links within the articles' sections." But more to the point, under the heading "Navigation templates provide navigation between existing articles" (emphasis not mine), the first bullet reads: "Red links should be avoided unless they are very likely to be developed into articles, and even if they do, editors are encouraged to write the article first." Then, under the heading "Navigation templates provide navigation between related articles" (emphasis not mine), the first bullet reads: "If the series of articles is not established as related in the actual articles by reliable sources, then it is probably not a good idea to interlink them." Finally, under the heading "Navigation templates are not arbitrarily decorative", the first bullet reads: "There should be justification for a template to deviate from standard colors and styles."

From

Wikipedia:Templates for deletion
if they appear to push POV. Trying to remedy this by adding more templates might lead to the disadvantage described in the previous point."

Just in case, also consult

WP:COI
.

Starting here, the emphasis could be argued to be mine :). As for your last comment: Oklahoma, Kansas, and USC don't use piped links or redlinks. Those navbox templates exist as navigational templates for existing articles. They also use links for related articles rather than articles the editors wish were related. Case in point: just as the

WP:POV issues, I'll revert the template so that it can stay 1) properly coloured, 2) linked to existing articles, and 3) linked to related articles, all per the above guidelines (which also call to question the rationale for its creation). Let me know if I'm being too harsh or if I actually make sense, because I'm only going for better Wikipedia coverage. --Aepoutre (talk) 00:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply
]

Noticing your latest edits to

]


SNU Colors- Those are that particular shades of Crimson and White. The Visual Standards Guide is only available on the SNU website, it's not a third party site, so you got me there. Change the colors if you want, but remember assume I have not seen any school having to source school colors... it's sorta a given.

University templates are all in there own school colors, that's my justification. To be honest, this is frustrating me.

I am not adding, or promoting my so SNU's interests, I am stating, as plainly as possible, facts about the school. So there is no COI or OWN. The majority of my edits aren't about content but about presentation. I've tried to make the SNU as quality as possible. I do change things when vandals come in.

The template is not effecting the content of the article in any way. The OU template also links to Daily Oklahoman so it is not ill-relevant to SNU. SNU does not link to Oklahoma Sooners, not sure where you were going with that. The SNU template also serves as a list, all the majors, facilities and other information, some of which is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. And like I stated earlier when I overhauled the SNU template, it leaves open the possibility of expansion. When someone is so led to create and article about the SNU School of Business, it is there ready to go. Until then, it is suffice to say, as it is listed in the Template: SNU has a school of Business. It works as a quick reference. SNU is a small school, and relatively low on the radar of all American culture.

Moonraker,
WP:VERIFY
). I'm just glad that you found a source for the college colours (which are totally different from what you originally put, so I didn't attack you in any way but cited Wikipedia policy that challenged you to work with me in making the article better), which are different from the athletics colours according to other sources. I totally assume good faith. If you were to have a non-NPOV perspective it wouldn't mean that you're being malicious or destructive. I've just been letting you know about Wikipedia policies you may not (and seem not to) have read, so that we might resolve our disagreement according to those principles.
The
MSA does not establish the same level of relation via RS (otherwise, one could argue that any college is related to any newspaper in which it has been featured, and link to that, or you could put University of Chicago in a Saint Xavier University
navbox).
Articles are different from lists are different from navboxes, and none of them should include a list of majors. That's usually deleted or it can get an {{advert}} tag slapped on a college article. There's no reason for a majors list except for advertising. Furthermore, the SNU business school, as
WP:NAV
).
Understand that this isn't some effort to destroy you somehow. One might call it an (unsuccessful) attempt to help you become a better editor by providing helpful guide links, much like the tradition of posting things like User talk:Aepoutre#Welcome to Wikipedia!, albeit more specific and interactive. It's nevertheless been met with indifference to more than one Wikipedia guideline and policy. Please understand that I don't send you links to make you feel bad or destroy an article, but so that we can both read them and reach consensus as to what would be best, according to set guidelines, for the article. According to what you say, we have the same objective. Let's work toward that objective without getting defensive and ignoring Wikipedia's guidelines. --Aepoutre (talk) 19:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Aepoutre (talk) 17:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

WP:VERIFY

Moonraker, if there are really press conferences then you should be able to find sources to cite that others can verify. Once again, I encourage you to do more research and focus more on article quality. --Aepoutre (talk) 00:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image (File:SNU Crimson Storm logo.gif)

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Orphaned non-free image (File:SNUseal.jpg)

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Play-in game requested move

Moon, I followed the procedures outlined in

WP:RM. IMO it's not an obvious move, so I followed the non-uncontroversial steps. You can weigh in here to support the move (or not I guess :) — X96lee15 (talk) 00:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

Cut-and-paste moves

cut and paste move", and it is considered undesirable because it splits the page history
which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the

]

Since I see you are a member of WikiProject Kansas City, I invite you to join and help out whenever possible with the official WikiProject of the Kansas City Chiefs. Thanks!

]

Please accept this invitation to join WikiProject Kansas City Chiefs, a WikiProject dedicated to improving all articles associated with the Kansas City Chiefs. Simply click here to accept!

DII Tournament Articles

Hi, thanks for the support! The NAIA articles are great as well. You are correct that it is time-cnsuming work, especially since I am reconstructing the brackets from the NCAA record book, which only includes game scores. Based on what I've found, there is not much else to put on the articles besides a list of participants and the backet (I created the individual NIT articles as well, and that is what most of them include except for the most recent ones, which have more information). After creating the individual articles, I hope to create some records compliation articles that will mimic the ones that exist for the D-I toruney. I will add the linkst to the see also and will put the project tag on the discussion page as well, as you suggested. If you have any suggestions or ideas, feel free to share them! Thanks. - Masonpatriot (talk) 17:46, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

As promised, I'm responding to your last comment here instead of at

]

Personally vindictive edits that destroy sentence structure and hidden messages such as this are not appropriate for Wikipedia. I'd prefer not to report you. Please stop. --]
SO when I remove unsourced information, you call it "crippling the sentence structure" and then put it back in. But when you remove information uncited, you are protecting the integrity for the article from "harmful and destructive" edits. And if I were to re-add the information you tell me to "stop it" and I am "starting an edit war". This is highly hypocritical. You did a 180, reverting my edits, only to added them back later, still uncited, then removed them and added them back with references. Under the guidelines, I can remove those offending sentences, which you have said is acceptable policy, you yourself follow. SO basically I am so confused to your logic of reverting my edit. and then removing the information, that I had previously removed yourself, then added it back with sources. (Which is a good thing, but I'm confused on the progress by which you went about it.) And we'll probably go back and forth on the athletic logo to, but seeing as how MNU has used the wagon in the past, it is more identifiable to the the college more so than the gender specific pioneer man. I had them both on there at the start, for the wagon is used on there Facebook Fan Page. There is no reason to why there can't be two. I also added a caption about the 2009 re-branding. I think there can be both.I gave a very logical and sound reason for having the color order Red Blue White, or even letting it be Blue Red White. I in no way changed the color or deleted the colors off there. So I fail to see how the trivial issue of color order is "harmful" to the page. If I didn't give a reason, that understandable to change it back, but I expressed that since White is MNU's accent color, it should be listed last. Check out University of Kansas colors order.Moonraker0022 (talk) 23:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
1) Your response here isn't a minor edit. Be careful with that check box.
2) In your haste to take my
WP:V recommendations to the extreme, you did leave incomplete sentences in your wake (no, a noun isn't a sentence, as I've just addressed
).
3) You'll notice I did remove the information, carefully and appropriately, that wasn't cited, and did research for the rest. It's not hypocritical to undo destructive edits (it seems this is the bit to which you take the most umbrage), remove uncited information, and add cited information. Your pleasure or displeasure at the timing of my research is irrelevant.
4) Your wagon assertions constitute OR, and violate both NPOV and RS. Since you are fond of precedent instead of regulation, see [4]. It's particularly relevant since you recently praised that article's structure. I also provided an explanation for any recent edits on the article's talk page.
5) I'm sorry if the logic confuses you. It doesn't confuse me, and it wouldn't be an issue in any case if you didn't take it so personally.
6) There is a very reasonable explanation for why it shouldn't have two: it doesn't need two, which only serve to overwhelm an already small article. Focus on researching the college and adding cited content. The attempt at compromise by adding both pictures is not compromise.
7) I have no issue with the colors at present, aside from your inappropriate hidden comment about them. It's clear you hadn't read this addition to our discussion before adding that comment, or responding here. As I said, it seems that you take umbrage at the "undo". I can understand that, but inferring such an offense is unnecessary. ]

Orphaned non-free media (File:MNUpioneers.jpg)

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Marking major edits as minor

I noticed that this major edit was marked as a

]


Hola

I'm appointing you the SNU-colors "defender of the faith" or something. There are literally 8 options for this color and it's pretty obvious that, in terms of VERIFY, no one is actually better than any other. You care way more about this than I do, so go nuts with it. I hope you're not so angry that we can't still collaborate on these articles. You may not believe this, but I've almost always assumed good faith on your part, doing "sneaky" things during content disputes notwithstanding, and your assumptions that I don't assume good faith on your part are actually pretty rude. I hope that if and when we do collaborate from now on, you can refrain from personal attacks and letting your frustration get the better of you. Frustration, understandable as it may be, doesn't give you any right to be anything but civil, especially when you appear to take Christianity seriously enough to implore me to "remember my baptism." I can't, since I've never been, but you should probably take your own advice, whatever you meant by it. Anyway, take care and I'll see you around! Great job with adding {{WikiProject Universities}} to all those articles, by the way; I've been pretty excited about that. :-D

]

Project tags

Actually, considering the Christianity project banner now includes material for each of the child projects as well, it would probably be best to use the

Template:ChristianityWikiProject with whichever subproject-specific parameters are appropriate. Do you have any particular school in mind? If so, I could probably do the changes myself. John Carter (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

For Lutheran schools I would probably add the following text:

:{{ChristianityWikiProject|class=|importance=|lutheranism=yes|lutheranism-importance=}} and remove the separate Lutheranism banner. The Christianity WikiProject has an article alerts section on its main page which allows the project to be informed of any major developments regarding articles tagged with that banner, while the Lutheranism project doesn't yet have that functionality. Also, in general, that is true with most of the other Christian projects and their banners. In general, I think it would probably be best, if you believe that you have the time, to replace any extant banner of one of the Christianity WikiProject's "child" projects for specific denominations or groups with the {{

ChristianityWikiProject}} and whatever additional parameters, like those for Lutheranism above, are appropriate. Then remove any banners which are duplicated by the Christianity banner. That reduces the talk page clutter, while at the same time increasing the functionality. Also, in some of these cases you might check to see if the existing categorization of the article indicates the school's religious affiliation. If it doesn't, by all means add whatever category is appropriate to indicate the school's affiliation. John Carter (talk) 14:17, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

Bearing gifts (sort of)

Hi! How's life been of late? Since our Wikipedia history together is so intertwined with it, haha, I wanted to share a discovery I recently made with regards to Pantone 201.

]

Great work

Hey! I wanted to let you know what a great job you've been doing with talkheaders, bannershells, and wikiprojects. Just so that you know you're appreciated. And thanks for the catch on the SNU athletics bit, too! :-) --

]

Thanks, I'm trying to update the NAIA schools. Smaller schools usually have lower quality articles. Here's a question that maybe you can help me with. Sometimes I see Project Banners for Education and Schools in a US College/University talk. So far, I've been changing those out for the University Project tag, so there is a wee bit of uniformity. Am I right in doing so? It is very rare to see one, but just doubling checking. PEACE.Moonraker0022 (talk) 19:06, 11 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]