User talk:VanishedUser 2313214sad1/Archives/2014/January

User:Ross Hill/talk header/month

		The MOTD Barnstar
		We at Motto of the Day (MOTD) would like to thank you for your participation and contributions to MOTD during 2013. We hope to see you around at MOTD next year. Happy 2014!!! –pjoef (talk • contribs) 15:37, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Pjoef Ross HillTalk to me! 03:24, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, Juzumaru seems to be somewhat more willing to listen to you than to the rest of us. Can you explain to him that no one is saying tge article should read "Okura was Korean"? I have been saying since day 1 that we should "teach the controversy", and this isn't even my POV. 182.249.240.21 (talk) 03:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He isn't really willing to listen. I would take it to

WP:DRN if I were you. Ross HillTalk to me! 21:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

Something like 90% of DRN cases fail. In this case, I know in advance exactly why a DRN case on this issue would fail. Juzumaru won't listen to me or anyone else, even though I have already thoroughly disproven his claims several times. He hasn't edited a single article, either here or on ja.wiki, since he started arguing with me. He's

clearly only here to promote a racially-motivated political agenda and fight vehemently to defend it, and that's why he belongs on ANI, not DRN. By the way, just above here he deliberately misrepresented works by Donald Keene (who clearly was referring only to the language Okura used; he earlier gave the toraijin theory plenty of credence) and (a 50-year-old book by) Nakanishi (no historical theory has ever been "proven" conclusively; that's simply not how history works). I know I said I was done with him, but that was after he promised to stay on ja.wiki and leave me alone, and before he started trying to canvas you into supporting his view directly above... I really wish he would just see what's coming... 182.249.240.12 (talk) 02:26, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply

]

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Jianhui67 ^{talk★contribs} 09:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Jianhui67. Happy 2014 . Ross HillTalk to me! 17:09, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

	Happy New Year!
	Hello Ross Hill: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Newyorkadam (talk) 20:50, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply] Send New Year cheer by adding {{ subst:Happy New Year 2014 }} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Same to you, Newyorkadam . Ross HillTalk to me! 20:52, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the

My name is Juzumaru. I was accused of charges of "far-right" in the admin board from anonymous users (182.249.240.xxx）. And, I moved to Japan language version Wikipedia from the English Wikipedia by your advice. [1] However, even after I moved to the Japanese version, I have been stalking the anonymous user.（182.249.240.xxx）[2] Will you persuade him so that this anonymous user does not approach me? --Juzumaru (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have read the above message. I will reply when I have a moment. Regards, Ross HillTalk to me! 04:13, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(

WP:HARASSMENT. ///EuroCarGT 05:05, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

Thank you. This IP user is requesting a block of me in the Japanese version of Wikipedia.[3] I am considering to re-create the account. --Juzumaru (talk) 06:56, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked into this situation enough yet, but I'll have a reply for you by tonight. Best regards, Ross HillTalk to me! 13:11, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please ignore (Redacted). He posted more personal attacks against me on his talk page on ja.wiki, and when I called him out on it he started altering my comments, and SOME OTHER IP USER reported on him (my IP range is blocked on ja.wiki, hence the creation of

Name calling won't get you anywhere, 182. Ross HillTalk to me! 13:11, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Then is there any chance you could also redact the part above where he calls me a stalker? I'm sorry to use the J-word, but he has been calling me names and making unsubstantiated claims from the beginning. I'm not sure how your Japanese ability is, but unless you can read Japanese, it's pretty clear Juzumaru expects you to just take his word for it. All of my semi-intelligible interactions with him in the last 4 days or so have been in a language User:Oda Mari and User:Canterbury Tail clearly speak. I have to wonder why of all the users Juzumaru thinks "support" him "against" me (he has said as much numerous times in the last few days) he chose to contact you and only you. Maybe he thinks you can't read Japanese and will be more susceptible?? 182.249.240.31 (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Basically you all need to stop, this is getting out of hand. I've read the

edit wars and not appropriately contributing to any Wikipedia. If you are going to something wrong or you don't know simply don't do it. ///EuroCarGT 16:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

I'm sorry for the trouble. 182.249.240.xxx is also an ugly customer to deal with. I provide Juzumaru to his Sandbach. I have to stop editing from December 24. And it will continue. --Juzumaru (talk) 02:00, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay in answering. It was hard to find out all the details of this situation due to the use of Japanese, which, as 182 guessed, is not my native language. First I think everyone, including Juzumaru should read

• Juzumaru (talk · contribs) believes the Japanese poet Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent.
• 182.249.240.31 (talk · contribs) (alt account: Hijiri88) believes Yamanoue no Okura is Korean.
• 182, you have said the Britannica and other encyclopedias have supported your claim. May I have links please?
• Juzumaru Simply citing sources that don't explicitly support a claim, don't invalidate sources that do.

• Source 1 says A & B
• Source 2 just says A.

You cannot use source 2 to disprove B.

By the same logic, if:

• Source 1 says Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent, and is Korean.
• Source 2 just says Yamanoue no Okura is of Korean descent.

You cannot use source 2 to show that

mutually exclusive

.

We need to work together. Name calling, and claiming stalking is not productive, and will only lead to more trouble. If you two keep disagreeing, please seek dispute resolution. Best regards, Ross HillTalk to me! 03:53, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation of Juzumaru

• According to "
  新選姓氏録(Shinsen Shojiroku)" (Newly Compiled Register of Clan Names and Titles of Nobility), Okura is a distant branch of the imperial family of Japan.（Quote the relevant part "山上朝臣 大春日朝臣同祖、天足彦国忍人命の後 右京皇別下"）Therefore, "Okura is a Japanese" is common sense. Main Japanese encyclopedias are written "Okura is Japanese." And This record is quoted in plural treatises. （Show an example 「類衆歌林」覚え書き[4]
  86page 「粟田真人は、文武四年に藤原不比等と共に律令選定を命ぜられており、この頃より不比等とのつながりが窺われよう。また、新選姓氏録などから山上憶良と同族出身である事が推定されるばかりか、大宝元年には憶良と共十分なように恩われる。」
• Yamanoue-Okura was a Japanese low-class bureaucrat of the about 7th century. Therefore, his life not recorded in detail. The name of the Okura(憶良) is close to the Chinese style than Japanese style. Therefore, someone claims "Okura is not Japanese. He is immigration."
• This claim has been denied by Professor Aoki Kazuo experts ancient Japanese history. According to his book (「憶良帰化人説批判（Okura-Kikajin-setsu-Hihan）[5]」, "Okura was given a title of "臣 (Omi)" from the Japanese emperor. The title of "臣" (Omi) is not given to a Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants). Therefore, Okura is not Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants).")
• Nakanishi Susumu is the scholar who is affirmative in this hypothesis (Okura is a Kikajin (Descendants of foreign immigrants)). However, he admits that this hypothesis can not be proven. According to his description, "Okura's Son (Yamanoue-Funanushi) given a title of "朝臣 (Ason)" from the Japanese emperor. The title of "朝臣 (Ason)" is not given to a Kikajin(foreign immigration). Therefore, Okura is not Kikajin(Descendants of foreign immigrants)." (「朝臣姓を賜った山上船主を憶良の子と推定すれば、憶良の帰化人たらぬことは紛れようもない。」（I have quoted the book written by Nakanishi Susumu "Soukoku-to-meisou Yamnoue Okura wo Megute (相剋と迷走 - 山上憶良をめぐって)" ）
• According to American-born Japanese literature scholar Donald Keene, "Okura wrote Kanshi (Chinese style poetry). But the emotion of his poetry is not Sino-Korean, was the spirit of the Japanese." (Quote from an interview with Daniel Keene of the book NHK Daily Manyoshu [6])
• Now, there is no treatise which quoted in the affirmative "Okura is a Korean descendants."
• And famous encyclopedia of Japan ("Nihon Rekishi Jinbutsu Jiten" published by The
  Asahi Shinbun / Heibonsha World Encyclopedia / "Dainihon Jinmei Jiten" (Dictionary of Japanese Biography) published by The Kodansha / Daijisen published by The Shogakukan / Daijirin) do not describe this hypothesis(Okura is a Korean descendants). --Juzumaru (talk) 10:40, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply
  ]

PS. May I copy this conversation to the talk page of Yamanoue Okura? [7]

(2013/12/31 Update --Juzumaru (talk) 03:59, 31 December 2013 (UTC))[reply]

Happy New Year! I was enjoying the New Year holiday. if you have any questions on my explanation, Please feel free to ask any questions. By the way, 182 continues to slander me. [8] 182 does not use a user account in Wikipeda. Therefore, I will not be able to know his activities. I want to argue against a trial in absentia by 182. --Juzumaru (talk) 06:02, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can add that page to your Watchlist. If you are interested in following my edits so you can revert them out of hand, please see

WP:HOUND. And maybe Tsuguharu Foujita

. Also, there is a difference between slandering you and adding a reasonable outline of the debate to the article talk page (where the debate would have taken place from the start if you hadn't persisted in edit-warring with me.

Anyway Ross Hill, is there any chance you could ask him to stop twisting my words? It doesn't look like he'll listen to me at all... 182.249.240.8 (talk) 10:48, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation of 182

• Ross Hill, thank you for your analysis. However, I don't "believe" anything about this.
• I came across an article on a poet who many historians believe to have been born on the Korean Peninsula.
• I tried to include this information (the fact that modern scholars have come to this belief) in the article and word it as neutrally as possible.
• I never once said, in the article or on a talk page, that "Okura was Korean".
• I don't assume to know what Juzumaru believes about 7th-century poets, but he tried consistently to remove the word "Korea" from the explanation. I have told Juzumaru on ja.wiki that I will not interact with him anymore, so this is all I will say. I won't try to rebut his points above.
• Britannica is, as far as I know, not online, but the 2007 edition of Britannica Kokusai Dai-Hyakkajiten that I have in my electronic dictionary gives his birthplace as "百済？" ("Baekje(?)") The Nihon Koten Bungaku Daijiten gives pretty extensive coverage to the theory (as I already detailed on-wiki), but I think it's also offline only. The other encyclopedia is Hyakkajiten MyPedia, which is here; it states "出自については不明で、百済系渡来人説など諸説がある" ("His ancestry is unknown, and there are various theories such as that he was an immigrant from Baekje."). The most complete, encyclopedic study of classical Japanese literature as a whole is Seeds in the Heart by Donald Keene, and he basically takes the theory as probable.
• You are unlikely to find any source from the last 30 years that discusses Okura in any detail, that doesn't either accept the theory, mention the theory, or actively argue against the theory. (I already mentioned Aoki, who fits into the latter category.)

182.249.240.37 (talk) 14:04, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, regarding this edit: I think calling this a content dispute is a flawed understanding of what my original complaint was. I posted on ANI because every single one of a certain user's edits demonstrated problematic behaviour, and a

political agenda incompatible with the construction of a neutrally worded encyclopedia. 182.249.240.37 (talk) 14:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply

]

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08:35, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

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I'm excited to be working with you again, this time on the waterless fracking article :) Here are some sources I found:

1. NPR- Waterless Fracking Makes Headway in Texas, Slowly
2. Time- Waterless Fracking
3. RIGZONE- Fracking Goes Waterless: Gas Fracking Could Silence Critics
4. InsideClimate News- Waterless Fracking: Gas Drilling Game-Changer?
5. this is a direct reference, but it has links to reliable sources
6. Midwest Energy News- Waterless fracking technique makes its debut in Ohio

:D -Newyorkadam (talk) 02:11, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam[reply]

Thanks so much Newyorkadam . I'm making the article at Liquefied petroleum gas fracturing (though I'm open to other options for the title.) Ross HillTalk to me! 02:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why not just Waterless fracturing and have Liquefied petroleum gas fracturing redirect to it? This would allow us to be flexible in discussing all forms of waterless fracking, rather than just one. Thoughts? -Newyorkadam (talk) 02:37, 13 January 2014 (UTC)Newyorkadam[reply]

09:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

 — Nyttend (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC) 16:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply