User talk:Zoticogrillo

This was an error and the issue has been resolved, thank you. Zoticogrillo (talk) 23:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The numbers indicate the change in the size of the page. If there is a +544, for example, it means that through that particular edit, the page's size was increased by 544 bytes. If there is a -267, then the page was made smaller by 267 bytes. It's a quick way to know if text was added or removed and the quantity of said change. Useight (talk) 00:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, great article! I did a little WikiGnoming on it, adding some commas, hyphens, and such here and there. As for getting it to Good Article status, I see it's already listed as a nomination, so hopefully someone with more experience in that area will be able to take a look. If not, I'll take a closer inspection when I have more time. Useight (talk) 02:26, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have provided GA feedback on this article a week ago, but it doesn't look like you've revisited it since I did. Can you please make an effort to do so in the next several days? Thanks. Jclemens (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading Image:Ed bovet.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on

Also Image:Bovet August 1944.jpg --dave pape (talk) 17:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for working to fix the info on these images. The basics look good, but the details are still a bit vague - please try to add specific source information. For Image:Bovet August 1944.jpg, that would mean identifying the newspaper it was printed in (name, date, where published). For Image:Ed bovet.jpg - if you scanned the image yourself, state that (and where the photo came from); if you got it from a website, give the URL of the particular page it came from. --dave pape (talk) 15:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And, just FYI, I came to those images while browsing

WP:GAC for articles with poorly sourced images - in addition to copyright concerns, unsourced images are no different than unsourced statements; e.g. what's the citation for the claim that Image:Ed bovet.jpg is actually Bovet? --dave pape (talk) 15:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply

]

As for the images being removed, I guess you're referring to OrphanBot removing them from articles. The bot does this automatically for any images that are likely to be deleted soon; being a bot it can only operate based on the templates (such as "no source") on an image's page, it can't make judgments about whether the image really will be deleted. Since you've been updating the image info and have removed the templates, there probably won't be any problem with them being re-added to the article. --dave pape (talk) 02:02, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken a look at the article and made some comments in the GAN section. Overall it seems pretty well done. there are some clarity and POV issues to work through but this is a pretty interesting subject and article. Protonk (talk) 15:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Bovet_Fleurier/GA1 there is the link. I've never reviewed an article for GA status before, so this may be too harsh or whatever. Protonk (talk) 17:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please read wp:WikiProject Companies/Assessment, it doesn't have any criteria regarding history. If you think it belongs in a history project then add approriate tag, thanks Tom (talk) 21:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Zoticogrillo, it's probably best if you just change-up the importance of the article as you have, very few people are going to argue or notice if you change from low to mid importance. Tom (talk) 10:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a tricky one, because the same words are used in both the UK and the US to mean subtly different things. In the UK, a 'faculty' is a division within a university (such as the 'faculty of science', which would typically contain the departments of physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, etc) and the usual term for people teaching or researching within a university department is 'academic staff'. From my reading of US departmental web pages, I get the impression that there's a distinction made between 'faculty' (people doing teaching and research) and 'staff' (which seems to mean administrative and support people). The term 'professor' also has important differences: in the US it seems to be used as a generic term for anyone who teaches at a university, from the lowliest part-time teacher (like me) right up to the most senior and eminent people. In the UK, the generic term is 'lecturer', and the title Professor is accorded only to the most senior rank of academic staff (equivalent to 'full professor' in US terminology). I'd otherwise be inclined to go for 'academic staff', but from what you've said it sounds like that term has a specific meaning in the US. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 12:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting. I understood that assistant professors (≈ 'lecturers' in the UK) and associate professors (≈ 'senior lecturers' or 'readers' in the UK) are all addressed as 'Professor X' rather than 'Dr X', and are commonly referred to as 'professors' - is this then not strictly correct? (Also, I'm not sure I'd refer to the administrative staff as 'mere' anything - in my experience they're the ones who actually keep everything running.) I wonder, then, what the best wording would be to refer to those who teach at a university. -- Nicholas Jackson (talk) 23:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your understanding is correct. Non-tenured "Assistant Professors", non-tenured or tenured "Associate Professors", and tenured "Professors" are ALL addressed as "Professor X" in the United States. Accordingly, the title "Professor" in America is in itself far less prestigious than in the UK or Germany. In fact, the US equivalent to a "Professor" in the UK system would actually be a so-called "Distinguished Professor" or "University Professor", who holds an endowed chair (there are comparatively few of those in US universities).

Second, it is also correct that professors in the US are collectively referred to as "faculty", whereas administrative staff members are referred simply as "staff". The term "Faculty" may be also used however, as in Britain, to refer to a constituent academic unit within a university, e.g. Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences. That usage is infrequent though (academic units in US university are more commonly called "schools" or "colleges", sometimes "institute"). Toeplitz (talk) 18:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree, but ... in actuality, everyone on the faculty at an American institution knows perfectly well who is an assistant professor, who is an associate professor, and who is a full professor. It is true that all are addressed (!!) as 'Professor Smith,' and so forth, but on their business cards and other similar written items of identification they will style themselves, John Smith, Professor of Law, or Jane Smythe, Associate Professor of Law. Therefore I would not say that the term is necessarily less prestigious than that of a European 'professor.' This differentiation is very important within the academy, and, as I've written above, everyone within a particular faculty or school will be aware of everyone else's status, or if not aware, it will be an important distinction. Additionally, it used to be that the American title of (full) professor used to be tied to the granting of tenure. Thus only 'full' professors used to be able to vote and so forth. Nowadays many associate professors are tenured. Lawman15 (talk) 07:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for uploading

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

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This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 06:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt this will pass GA; its coverage, while wide, is too brief. As a legally-minded individual I'd be interested in helping you expand the UK-related topics at some point, however. Ironholds (talk) 13:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Err.. Well yes. The information is also wrong in the bit you do have; "In England and Wales it is not required to be formally admitted to practice law, but admission is required to use the title of solicitor or barrister."? If you know of a type of lawyer in the UK other than a solicitor or barrister I'd love to hear of it. I'd also note that you got rid of (pardon my language) a shitload of information when you merged

Call to the Bar to Admission to practice law. Personally I'm against such a merge, and I note you didn't discuss it beforehand. England and Wales should keep a seperate article (for barristers at least) with a summary in Admission to Practice Law. Ironholds (talk) 08:28, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply

]

Not an admin, and all the admins seem afk, but I'll do what I can. Ironholds (talk) 09:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A

]

Request for mediation accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party has been accepted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Juris Doctor . For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 06:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just a heads up that the

You have email. MBisanz ^talk 22:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Zoticogrillo,

I'm asking Wikipedians who are interested in

Our mission is to assimilate into Wikipedia all the insights of an American law school education, by reducing hornbooks to footnotes.

• Each casebook will have a subpage.

• Over the course of a semester, each subpage will shift its focus to track the unfolding curriculum(s) for classes using that casebook around the country.
• It will also feature an extensive, hyperlinked "index" or "outline" to that casebook, pointing to pages, headers, or {{
  anchors}} in Wikipedia (example
  ).
• Individual law schools can freely adapt our casebook outlines to the idiosyncratic curriculum devised by each individual professor.

1. Add

Wikipedia:Hornbook/participants

.

2. If you're a law student,

• Email http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Hornbook to your classmates, and tell them to do the same.
• Contact me directly via talk page or email about coordinating a chapter of "Student WP:Hornbook Editors" at your own school.

(You don't have to start the club, or even be involved in it; just help direct me to someone who might.)

3. Introduce yourself to me. Law editors on Wikipedia are a scarce commodity. Do knock on my talk page if there's an article you'd like help on.

Regards,

Good hello. This morning I've watched with delight as you expanded this article and added sources. Good job, kudos to you, article is looking much better. Cheers.

Not sure if this is how to leave a message, please let me know if you receive this. Mv-22 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks for your comments on the my page. Please continue to monitor the Doctor page and help.DoctorDW (talk) 14:37, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you file an RfC for lack of civility Coolcaesar's behavior on that page I will comment on it. You can then notify anyone else who has commented there, or on his talk page (several) and it may draw some attention to lack of civility. Mervyn Emrys (talk) 12:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Zoticogrillo, for your message to me. I looked at your proposed page, and I thought it fine.

Note this. It is not an argument because it is is immaterial that some country somewhere does not accord the title 'doctor' to those to whom it issues a JD. (Of course, that is their own rather humorous problem; when, as you say elsewhere, is a doctorate not a doctorate.) To expound further: a country has its own system of degrees. The JD is an American invention and as such is a latecomer to certain countries. It may make sense that, let us say, Australia, wishes to retain a research degree in law as its primary teaching degree and therefore recognizes only that degree as conferring the title of doctor. But if the restriction on the title is indeed a feature of the Australian system, which I much doubt, then ... who cares. At least in terms of the American degree, it has no bearing on it. How could it? Are these people prepared to say that President Obama is a faker, as after all he taught law at the U of Chigago for eight years. A lesser note: the president of the U of Rochester also holds a JD as his only doctorate.

A more important comment: I very much doubt that there is anything in an Australian academic regulation which would say that a juris doctor cannot call himself a doctor in an academic setting, especially inasmuch as there are many Americans who teach in Australia. In other words, my first impression upon reading the Australian website cite is that it is the work of some one individual and not the expression of the university as a whole nor less the country.

I would like to add an argument regarding the SJD. Very few American law profs have that degree, inasmuch as only about 20 are awarded each year, and those primarily are awarded to foreign students; people who do not have a normal bachelor degree, but only a law bachelor degree and an LLM. The statistics are in the official ABA book issued each year on law schools. Further, the LLM is not a higher degree ... in essence because it doesn't really help one get a higher job. It is a degree which helps one get a job in the particular specialty. But it doesn't seem to move one up anywhere. It is more like a post graduate research fellowship would be for a PhD in the sciences. It looks good, but ...

Basically, I am venting here, and trying to be a bit helpful should you again take up the sword.

Note that the problem with the article is that people abroad read it and believe it. They generally believe the article, inasmuch as the JD is foreign to them anyway.

Best wishes, Lawman15 (talk) 14:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just so you know, I just edited your sandbox article on the torture memos (at

PS--You may note I did a little gentle editing on the lede. That was for better NPOV which will assuredly be an issue when you post this. The explanation is on your sandbox discussion page. I am happy to do more work on your fine draft including adding some cites--if you let me know you intend to finish and post it.ElijahBosley (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your kind remarks on my

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Letter from John Yoo to Alberto Gonzales. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Fiftytwo thirty (talk) 23:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

Letter from John Yoo to Alberto Gonzales

Your recent edits to

Torture memos article for more information. Please contact me if you have any questions. Zoticogrillo (talk) 22:55, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

Ah, my apologies for that. The structure of the text seemed identical to the previous article, and the lead was virtually the same. After i ran a cursory inspection on the different parts i assumed that the article was mostly duplicate with the longer article. However on a somewhat closer inspection there are clear differences between the two. My mistake. With kind regards, Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 23:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. sections 2340-2340A

Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. sections 2340-2340A, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. sections 2340-2340A. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Fiftytwo thirty (talk) 23:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

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Interrogation of al Qaeda Operative

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Interrogation of al Qaeda Operative. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Fiftytwo thirty (talk) 23:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

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Cut and paste move from

Torture memos

Please do not move articles per copy and paste. Use the "move" function instead so that the page history is preserved, which is important for copyright tracking reasons (among other things). I have reverted the move before more edits are done to the article at the new location, to avoid a more complicated situation that only some specialised admins can fix. You could have done a proper move yourself, but after the copy and paste move the target has non-trivial history, so only an admin can do it now. Hans Adler 23:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the content is completely new, and is implementing proposals approved on discussion pages as a result of collaborative drafting by multiple editors over the period of more than nine months. The "Bybee memo" content was replaced with a re-direct. Furthermore, having those articles redirect to "John Yoo," particularly in a mis-directed way, doesn't make any sense, particularly when John Yoo didn't even write all of the memos, and when Bybee's name is more popularly associated with the topic. Zoticogrillo (talk) 00:17, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps I made a mistake in the details when reverting you, but a cut and paste move is never OK and that's what you did, even if there was some editing in between. For example the old section Withdrawal of the "Torture Memos" and the new section OLC Head Jack Goldsmith's Withdrawal of the Torture Memos appear to be identical. At the moment I don't care about the naming of the articles or what directs to what. I care about you causing technical problems that require tedious fixing by an admin. See

WP:Cut and paste move repair holding pen for background. Hans Adler 00:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply

]

PS: I am going to bed now. I have posted at ANI so that an admin can take care of the situation. Hans Adler 00:25, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

JD, revisted

Just looked thru the discussion regarding the JD degree again. I chimed in here and there with an "I agree" or other comments. I respect you for the work you did and the burden you shouldered. The matter is still maddening. Lawman15 (talk) 11:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much! Zoticogrillo (talk) 04:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just a thought: That reference to the Australian school's statement regarding the JD and the honorific 'doctor': 1) it is a weak reference anyway, not being attributed to anyone on the faculty/teaching staff; I even suspect that the school's leadership may not be aware of it, and 2) how weird it would be if the reason they are of the expressed opinion is because of a misunderstanding created by ... the Wikipedia JD article! Lawman15 (talk) 07:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File source problem with File:James parker hall.jpg

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Juris Doctor

Hello. I haven't addressed your multi edits to Juris Doctor yet as I'm walking out the door but could you please explain what 'likely POV' means? Are you suggesting that my edit was POV or am I misunderstanding? I merely added that to show that there is actually no license given in Canada merely with the J.D. or LL.B. education - a person must still take Bar Admission courses and pass them before being granted a license. What is POV about that? I'm merely a Canadian lawyer and prof - I have no agenda other than accuracy. Best, A Sniper (talk) 01:23, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

response Zoticogrillo (talk) 03:24, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let me just say that I appreciate your message on my talk page. I fully support your edits as they have further improved the article. I'm perfectly happy leaving out the explanations (in brackets) as unnecessary to the chart - it looks cleaner now - I was merely wanting it reflected that Canadians need to take additional Bar Admission courses (not just sitting for exams) set by their respective provincial Law Societies - merely answering 'no' works for me, as you've done in the edit. Best, A Sniper (talk) 05:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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