Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2002 Arab Nations Cup Final

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to 2002 Arab Cup. There's more keep votes here than merge votes but none of the keep votes providexany sourcing to show gng. I'm not suggesting this is a non notable tournament, but to keep editors need to show significant coverage that goes beyond the standard morning after news reports. As nothing has been presented merging seems to be the strongest argument as it at least allows forking at a later date if the required coverage can be identified. Fenix down (talk) 22:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2002 Arab Nations Cup Final

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An unremarkable football match without significant independent sourcing. User:Namiba 14:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. User:Namiba 14:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bahrain-related deletion discussions. User:Namiba 14:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Saudi Arabia-related deletion discussions. User:Namiba 14:02, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge the match information into the parent article. SportingFlyer T·C 14:59, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep link put in the page alyaum.com is of a credible daily independent magazine. I added another link. --Fayçal.09 (talk) 15:38, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is
WP:NOTNEWS. Every sporting event has coverage at the time it occurs. Is there any evidence that this match had a longer impact or special significance?--User:Namiba 17:58, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Yes it have much significance in the Arab world, A teams taked placed in this competition organized by the UAFA since 1963. --Fayçal.09 (talk) 08:14, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Significance as in significant coverage. Was the event covered as anything other than a simple news event that received coverage at the time? Is it listed as an all-time great match by experts? These would be indications of its notability.--User:Namiba 14:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is a major tournament in the Arab world who represent 22 countries and 423,000,000 population. --Fayçal.09 (talk) 08:14, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's so major, Morocco sent their U-23 team. SportingFlyer T·C 17:08, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with
    2002 Arab Nations Cup: The match isn't really unremarkable but it shouldn't have its own page. Not well sourced, information can be held in the 2002 tournament page. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 04:11, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Arab world. --Fayçal.09 (talk) 08:29, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I feel it's unfair to single out this one article out of how many others are of these Finals?? This is technically an Arab International tournament with two countries in a final. Why is it any different from the UEFA Euro's? Why treat it any differently. There is huge coverage in the Europe for the Euro's. I honestly can't see why there wouldn't be reasonable coverage for this tournament and final. I feel this nomination is floored. Being said, there are merits for merging the final articles into the main competition articles. And because that hasn't been addressed here, I would also point to a procedural keep because nothing is said about the other final articles in this category. Govvy (talk) 08:32, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a reason to keep an article.--User:Namiba 14:36, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
@Namiba: sometimes OSE is a valid reason to keep. As the essay says, identifying articles of the same nature that have been established and continue to exist on Wikipedia may provide extremely important insight into the general concept of notability, so if the others are notable, this should be too. However, I'm a little unconvinced that the Arab Nations Cup is significant and notable enough to warrant articles on its finals. Microwave Anarchist (talk) 15:26, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If those articles had survived AFD, I might see your point. However, this article clearly fails
WP:NOTNEWS. If you nominate other similar articles for deletion, please tag me and I will weigh in. As it stands, we are discussing THIS article here.--User:Namiba 15:29, 24 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
How does it satisfy GNG? Your second sentence doesn't mean it is inherently notable and there aren't sources to satisfy GNG.--User:Namiba 15:11, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is no clear consensus regarding whether to merge or keep this article.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kichu🐘 Need any help? 08:59, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Why on earth would you want to delete this or think that the final of an international football tournament involving two national teams isn't notable? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 09:45, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is not inherently notable and there are not sufficient independent sources demonstrating notability. That is why.--User:Namiba 14:10, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a germane argument. So the final of the 2002 European Cup isn't notable either, then? [1] And no, that's not
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - it's a direct parallel to this event held in a part of the world representing over 200 million people WHO SPEAK ARABIC. Suggest you go search for your coverage/sources in Arabic - or find someone who can before you go around deleting things... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 14:50, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Perhaps it is not. If you nominate it for deletion, we can have that discussion.
WP:SUSTAINED, is the standard here. Let's discuss whether this article passes it or not.--User:Namiba 14:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
]
Even with the sources in the article as it stands, it flies past WP:BASIC and WP:GNG, and arguably EVENTS and SUSTAINED. These are major national daily newspapers - Arab News is the national English daily of Saudi Arabia, Al Yaum is an Arabic national daily in Saudi. Jazeera needs no introduction - Al Wasat was Bahrain's leading independent newspaper at the time and KUNA is Kuwait's version of Reuters, the national news agency. I mean, what else do you WANT in terms of RS? That's four major Arab regional media outlets, without breaking sweat. This one is a no-brainer... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:21, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I didn't expand on my initial merge since I thought this would be a clear merge, so I'll do so now - I'm still in favour of upmerging this article. The Arab Nations Cup isn't a major cup competition - it's a regional one, evidenced by Morocco sending their U-23 team, probably analogous to the CECAFA Cup, which we don't have stand-alone finals articles for. We can always spin the article back out if it gets more developed, but I don't think it's a valid
    WP:SPLIT right now. SportingFlyer T·C 17:07, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • @SportingFlyer: the Arab Cup is now under the auspices of FIFA, and has been renamed FIFA Arab Cup. While not major, it will definitely become more and more important with time. Anyway, my vote above stands: if we can find a bit more info on the game (background, match events, etc.) then I would keep it. Otherwise, it should be merged to the main article. Nehme1499 17:44, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Would it being under FIFA now make the 2002 final article notable? Tournaments can change but that doesn't mean the notability standards change for all the tournaments all of a sudden. I wouldn't mind going to keep if the article is expanded, until then, I'm still on merge. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 19:57, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No I don't think it would really drastically change the notability of this particular final. I'm just saying that the tournament is becoming less "minor". Nehme1499 20:25, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just making the distinction between a major continental tournament and a regional international tournament - this is clearly a regional international tournament, the fact it's now under FIFA doesn't really change anything. It also doesn't mean we can't have an article on the final, just that given the article's current development and duplication of the information already in the parent article, it's better merged until we get enough content to properly split it out (agreeing with you both.) SportingFlyer T·C 20:42, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a vote. Can you explain what you mean as "worthy?" Do you know of independent sourcing which shows sustained coverage?--User:Namiba 14:02, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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