Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bibi Khanum

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 20:25, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bibi Khanum

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Lacks Notability Zaynab1418 (talk) 19:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I very much wish people might actually read the original comment and follow-up and look at the article before voting where I say she is not in the further reading and is clearly not Bibi Khanum Astarabadi or Bibi Khanum consort of Timur and this probably not a real name. Zaynab1418 (talk) 18:02, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Article about a non-notable person. There are no in-line citations. In two of the books I checked given as references she is not mentioned at all. The notability of her father or son does not carry over to her. Searching for sources in English and Persian only brings up things about Bibi Khanum Astarbadi and Bibi Khanum mosque. I am not sure this is her given name vs it being a nickname/honorific as she has no given surname ("Lady Bibi"). The only information that comes up about her is copied from this Wikipedia page. --Zaynab1418 (talk) 19:48, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Women, and Iraq. Shellwood (talk) 20:21, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep there are several offline sources in the further reading section. Unless someone has checked them out and is satisfied that they don’t amount to in depth coverage, we should not delete. Mccapra (talk) 01:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As I said in the initial comment, I checked and she is not mentioned. She is not mentioned literally at all in any of the three English language books and I just re-checked. They were given as "Further reading" not citations. They are generic books about Shi'ism and Shi'ism in Iraq. Searching her name in Arabic also brings up nothing relevant. Zaynab1418 (talk) 01:41, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The second listed Arabic book is a history of Shi'ism from the Buyid era to Safavid era which ended in 1736 when she died in 1950. Presumably, then, she is not mentioned. Fakhr el-Din's book is a history of Najaf in the Abbasid era which ended over 1,000 years before she was born, so also making it unlikely she is mentioned. It's very clear they were listing as further reading books about Shi'ism and Najaf and not about the subject of the biography. Maybe someone who speaks better Persian or Arabic than me can check those sources, but I did as well and found no coverage of her.

I don't think Bibi Khanum is actually her given name as "Bibi" means "matron" and "Khanum" means lady in Persian. This is an honorific. Zaynab1418 (talk) 01:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to add on again, but Bibi Khanum is very likely not her actual name. It's probably an honorific given to her in absence of knowing what her real name is because her son is a very famous ayatollah and the al-Mamaqani family is famous as well. All we can say about her is that she existed and may have been an Islamic scholar and her son was Muhammad al-Milani, but we literally do not even know her actual name or birth date let alone any biographical details that establish notability. She meets no criteria at all for notability. Zaynab1418 (talk) 02:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ The The Oxford Encyclopedia Women in World History has a fairly extensive (549 words) article about her: https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780195148909.001.0001/acref-9780195148909-e-108 Vexations (talk) 12:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the same person. That is an entry for
Bibi Khanum Astarabadi. Please note the completely different death dates (1921 vs 1950). This is about Bibi Khanum mother of Muhammad al-Milani. I also said this in the deletion reason. Yes, Bibi Khanum is a generic term of respect for women so results will come up for other people who are clearly not this person. Zaynab1418 (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
My bad. Vexations (talk) 20:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per nominator, subject of article is not even mentioned in the references listed; what little information is included in the stub is not verifiable; and notability is not established. We are not doing anyone any favors by keeping a stub using a (common) honorific name and attributing it to a single non-notable person; it's also unreliable information which Wikipedia should not be perpetuating. Based on a quick search of Archive.org, it would seem there could even be a stronger argument for redirecting this page to Bibi-Khanym Mosque. Cielquiparle (talk) 10:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.