Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Classic female blues

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. v/r - T P 15:50, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Classic female blues

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I've found many tangential references to the genre, but little to nothing that explicitly defines it. Almost every source I've seen just uses "classic" and "female" as adjectives to describe the artist rather than the genre. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:03, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Allmusic certainly uses the term at Classic female blues. Apparently Blues for Dummies (1998) uses the term too (see here) - for what that's worth, and a google books search turns up quite a few references (whether that makes a genre is of course debatable). I also notice that Allmusic says 'more accurately "Vaudeville Blues"' and that produced quite a lot of hits, so perhaps we should think about a move. There is also a switch in the historiography here from an emphasis on male acoustic musicians of the '30s, to an emphasis on the formative role of these female singers. This group needs to be covered in detail somewhere, I am just bit unsure at the moment if this is the right place. I will also check my collection of blues books when I have time and before I settle an opinion.--SabreBD (talk) 18:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It's a distinct and notable genre, whether it's called classic female blues or vaudeville blues; see Talk:List_of_classic_female_blues_singers for some reliable sources that define the term. Ewulp (talk) 02:44, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]. A notable genre of music, with sources that address the topic directly. Northamerica1000^(talk) 11:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- All of those sources except #1 just use it as a descriptive phrase ("Classic female blues singers") to describe the SINGER, not the GENRE. Tell me how that's addressing the genre directly. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 23:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per arguments of User:Northamerica1000, this has a lot of potential references that could be easily incorperated into this article. – Phoenix B 1of3 (talk) 17:36, 8 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Of course it's rare that any musical genre is described without reference to composers or performers who represent that style. Revisiting this page, we have Oliver and Harrison describing "'Classic' blues" as the work of "urban women singers" who were "seldom recorded self-accompanied and were usually backed by jazz musicians" (geography and style of accompaniment figure into this definition). Stewart-Baxter describes a "hybrid" form containing "elements other than pure blues". Lieb says "the style was marked by a combination of blues and material from black minstrel shows and vaudeville" and that "with the rise of swing music in the thirties, the Classic Blues went out of fashion". Note the word style there—Lieb is describing a style, not a particular singer.

But, for the sake of argument, suppose sources that satisfactorily define classic female blues as a distinct genre were lacking. Can you explain why this failure should lead us to delete Classic female blues? The term, like British Invasion, has been used by many authorities to describe a phenomenon in the music business, and to distinguish a body of work created by certain artists at a certain time. As such, it merits an article. Ewulp (talk) 03:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how any of the sources identify it as a genre though. If 20 books say "Classic female blues singers x y and z" without elaboration, does that automatically make it a genre? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Several of the sources provided by Northamerica1000 describe the style, and #1 refers to it as a genre. Here [10] is another source that describes classic/vaudeville blues, and refers to it as a genre. For a more elaborate description, page 104 of the Harvard Dictionary of Music seen here (right column) has this: "In classic blues, a ragtime or stride pianist or a New Orleans style jazz band accompanies a female singer. Designed for formal presentation on stage, a song pursues a coherent theme through stanzas divided into introductory verse and chorus; 12-bar AAB structures provide only one element of the multithematic repertory". It goes on; you can read more at the link. Apart from its identity as a distinct style, the classic blues were the first blues recorded, and created a sensation at the time; until about 1926 classic female blues were the only blues recorded. The historical importance of the subject is well established. Wikipedia would be diminished by the loss of this article. Ewulp (talk) 03:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.