Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heller Furniture

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.

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Promotional article, lacks sources meeting the

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and United States of America. SanemAyhan07 (talk) 12:05, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - the article is not at all promotional in tone; it is reliably cited; and it lists ten (yes, 10) reliable sources at the end, including several New York Times articles, which give substantial coverage to Heller furniture. The company is certainly notable; I'll just comment that it is described in the sources as "iconic" and "cult", in other words revered by other designers: I've added these citations to the article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:14, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Being called "iconic" by a PR firm is not notable. Oaktree b (talk) 13:24, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  True (and quotable). I've put this in my daybook (with attribution). However, Heller and the designers with whom the company worked (Alan Heller, really, from what I can tell from the available sources) were the source of many genuinely iconic designs from the era. The Vignelli dinnerware was ubiquitous in certain circles. The fact that it has been re-issued (yet again) almost 60 years after it was first introduced (in Italy), and is sold in the Museum of Modern Art (as well as being held in the museum's collection) should make this claim ironclad. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 22:01, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Lack of any substantial coverage beyond what appear to be trade magazines or PR resources. Being "iconic" without any critical notice from the public at large, isn't. Oaktree b (talk) 13:25, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Guys, I've added citations to the museum collections at Philadelphia Museum of Art and Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) which both hold Heller objects. Clearly these designs are considered important enough to conserve and exhibit by major museums. Further, it isn't every company that gets major architect/designers like Frank Gehry and Mario Bellini to create products for them. By the way, I had nothing to do with this article until I saw this AfD today. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:52, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The company is definitely significant in the history of design (and has collaborated with many important figures in field). The NYT obit re: Alan Heller is, in my view, sufficient evidence of the notability of the company and its founder (in fact, perhaps there ought to be an article in this encyclopaedia about Alan Heller). That said, the writing of the article as is needs considerable improvement. Would simply stripping it down to the essentials be enough to keep it here as a stub (until such time as it has been further improved)? I would be willing to devote some time to this if so. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 18:43, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's stubby already. The NYT sources are clearly reliable, as are the museums. One or two more and we'll be home and dry. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is. You've also tidied-up the messy bits considerably (my previous comment did not take this into account – apologies). I'll try to lend a hand over the next few days, time permitting. I'm also concerned about trying to conserve the photographs that the editor who created the article uploaded to commons (also see Lella and Massimo Vignelli articles). These are gems – truly important cultural history, as is evidenced by the number of museums that hold the pieces in their collection – thus it would be a shame if readers were deprived of the opportunity to see them here. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 21:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: It is likely that Lella was involved in design of the Hellerware (or designed it, full stop). From, my knowledge of the subject, she led the way on three dimensional work, while he was the graphic design visionary (though they clearly worked as a pair on most everything).

• Keep the article was egregiously promotional when nominated; it is better now though still somewhat promotional. But both
  Walt Yoder (talk) 17:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Thanks, used the ref; and have stripped out the commercial lists. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:11, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Also note that

  Walt Yoder (talk) 17:15, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  In addition to the Lella Vignelli and Massimo Vignelli articles mentioned above, Vignelli Associates, and the Vignelli Center for Design Studies (as well as Unimark International) all have articles in this encyclopaedia (all of which need improvement as well). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:37, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, but perhaps rename --> "Heller, Inc." or simply "Heller" (which is how the Museum of Modern Art entry reads: "The manufacturer Heller introduced the award-winning design to America in a range of colors"). Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:44, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Sure, but we mustn't rename during the AfD. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:41, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Noted. I'm not up to the task of renaming articles, just thought it made sense (and would suggest doing so once the matter of the article itself is resolved). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.