Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalle Oskari Mattila (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.

Kalle Oskari Mattila

Kalle Oskari Mattila (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Note two previous AFD resulted in deletion decisions in 2017. Nothing about the subject's notability, nor the references, have improved with time. Self-promotional article. Fails

• Delete fails
  WP:NJOURNALIST. Almost all coverage is the author's own publications. Just getting writing published in prominent publications does not substantiate notability. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 00:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 00:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 00:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Added recent press coverage, a dictionary reference in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, more work history, recent publications and academic references to provide context. --User:Manhattanave22 —Preceding undated comment added 05:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete still remains a non-notable writer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Just adding in the Finnish Wikipedia page: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalle_Mattila samariterstrasse —Preceding undated comment added 19:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete
  WP:GNG guidelines, but not yet. (Adding a lot of content about where his works were published is kind of a red flag that it is filler to make someone appear to be notable. What are needed are awards and/or other signs of notability.)–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support Carole, why did you edit out all the major press coverage? That seems pertinent to me in establishing his notability as a well-known Finnish writer – he's been on broadcast TV and in all the major newspapers in Finland. The
  WP:GNG guidelines say: "Sources do not have to be available online or written in English." User:ManhattanAve22 03:01, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]

I explained in several ways:

I removed content that would not be in an article for a truly notable person. (A long way of saying it's not encyclopedic content).

Adding information like what newspapers published their articles is a "red flag" that someone is attempting to fill the article with content to make it appear that they are notable.

Other people have said the same thing.

I removed a couple of non-reliable sources - that were online and in English.

The point is: it is not helpful to attempt to fill an article with non-notable content - it becomes a blaring red flag that it is not notable content. There are a lot of people who write articles. What makes him notable, though: what notable awards has he won for his work, for instance. Thus, my point, it appears to be

WP:TOOSOON.–CaroleHenson (talk) 03:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

I think it would be helpful to look at the other Wikipedia pages that link to his page. There seem to be many: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Kalle_Oskari_Mattila Catfishing, for example. His essay is one of the few, if not the only personal accounts of catfishing ever published in a major newspaper. Or the Share a Coke campaign which he dissected in an article. Or Finnish literature for which he is a leading critic. User:ManhattanAve22 07:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate that you would like to keep this article, but redefining notability to suit this article isn't the way to go about it. It is clearly too soon for this individual.

There are only four or so articles that link to his article. It has already been nominated two others times for deletion - and judged non-notable.–CaroleHenson (talk) 13:04, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of supporting evidence in terms of Finnish press coverage that you've now cut out of the article. You probably didn't do it on purpose since it appears you don't read Finnish. But it would be important to take that coverage into account as it establishes his notability according to the WP guidelines. User:ManhattanAve22 21:23, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure what to say. One of the articles talks about Modern Love, which is mentioned already in the WP article. There are a couple of human interest stories, that don't add to his notability - like how he created an internet persona at the age of 12, or how he, as a Finn with coronavirus, adjusts to life under quarantine in NYC, etc. There is nothing that talks critically about his work as an author.

It seems the biggest issue is a failure to attempt to understand notability guidelines - and rather base it on your own opinion of notability. See

WP:LISTEN.–CaroleHenson (talk) 01:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

This piece on the largest Finnish commercial TV network talks about him being one of the rising stars of Finnish literature in the United States: https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/suomalaisten-kirjoittajien-kysynta-kasvaa-usa-ssa-kalle-oskari-mattila-vertaa-elamaansa-sinkkuelaman-carrieen-kirjallisuusagentit-lahettelevat-viesteja-peraani/7264724

When he has attained suitable notability (i.e., when he really meets

WP:TOOSOON do you not understand?–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply

]

And this article in Finland's largest newspaper says he is the only Finnish writer to ever have been published in the ML column in the New York Times: https://www.hs.fi/kulttuuri/art-2000006307706.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manhattanave22 (talk • contribs) 17:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No comment. And, I won't comment any more on this page.–CaroleHenson (talk) 00:04, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to me as though notability is being inspected here from an American point of view, not from what would constitute notability in general. The subject has a Wikipedia entry in Finnish Wikipedia which has not been challenged in the same ways as this article has – perhaps that's because in terms of being specifically a Finnish writer notability has already been achieved? My apologies if this debate is not encouraged/allowed. Manhattanave22 (talk) 23:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.