Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Hessburg (2nd nomination)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 20:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
Mark Hessburg
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- Mark Hessburg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Unreferenced article and subject does not seem notable, either for his music career or for his app designs. Can't find any significant coverage online and seems to fail
WP:MUSICBIO InDimensional (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
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- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Music, Computing, and Germany. InDimensional (talk) 20:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Conducted a BEFORE search and didn't find much we could use. Took a look at the previous AFD held in 2006, and the result was keep. All I'd say is Wikipedia was so much different back then. IMO those votes would not constitute an outright keep consensus today. X (talk) 20:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - I'm not really a wiki editor, so please bear with me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions here. I came across this deletion discussion by accident after I noticed that the link to Chassalla is not active in the article about the label Eisenberg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenberg_(music label) because the Chassalla article was deleted from Wikipedia. I'm from the same region as this band and I'm involved in the local gothic scene, so I know a lot about them.
- First of all, you have to understand that Mark Hessburg was mainly musically active until the mid-90s and, as you quickly find out if you do a little googling, he later concentrated on film sound and game development after moving to Berlin.
- There are inevitably no online articles from the period in which he was active as a musician, not even their record company SPV had an online presence at that time, as you can find out via the Internet Archive. As far as I know, there were only tours in the time before the last album. So there was no reason why there should have been any media articles about it in the 21st century.
- As has already been mentioned here, Wikipedia was a completely different place at the time the article was posted than it is today. This also explains the lack of sources in the article.
- He is also listed in the German National Library under the name Chassalla with a reference to the real name Mark Hessburg: https://d-nb.info/gnd/134828038
- So I would suggest that the article on Mark Hessburg should be merged with the content of the deleted article on Chassalla. According to the guideline “Members of notable bands are redirected to the band's article, not given individual articles, unless they have demonstrated individual notability.” - In this case, perhaps only the other way around, as Mark Hessburg's creative field of activity obviously extends far beyond just music. However, musical creation alone is sufficient according to several points mentioned in the notability criteria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles
- I cannot judge this for his other fields of activity, but there is also a lot to be found online.
- But now to sources regarding notability:
- Point 1 definitely applies:
- Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself
- HNA - Hessisch Niedersächsische Allgemeine 29. October 1996 Page 10 – Review of the Album "Phoenix out of the ashes" https://www.meinehna.de/abo/content/archiv (paid)
- Online you can also find this review as PDF, from the magazine EB/METRONOM No. 42 - March/April 1993 page 57: http://subkultur-ost.de/EB-Metronom%2042-93%20(Koeln)%20Fanzine%20%60931.pdf
- I also remember that there were several reviews in magazines, among others in the most important medium of the scene “Zillo”, but I only have one review in the probably second most important magazine “Orkus Musik Magazin” September 1996 page 44 with the review of the album “Phoenix out of the ashes”.
- Considering that the last album came out 28 years ago and the genre is a subculture that is nowhere near as popular and important today as it was in the early 1990s, I find it amazing that you can still find something internationally, even if only on some webzines or online marketplaces where the used CDs are sold, but it clearly shows that the project had definitely achieved a relevant, international level of awareness at the time. e.g. here:
- https://www.darkside.ru/album/12605/
- https://www.hmv.co.jp/artist_Chassalla_000000000366218/item_Phoenix-Out-Of-The-Ashes_2557117
- https://www.stereoid.cz/chassalla-phoenix-out-of-the-ashes-cd/
- https://winyle.com.pl/kasety/5020082-chassalla-phoenix-out-of-the-ashes.html
- You also find used CDs of him worldwide on eBay.
- Point 5 also seems to apply:
- Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable).
- The debut album is available in the German National Library. The entry shows that the CD was released on the Apollyon Rekordings label, a sub-label of Apollyon (90 records released) and was distributed via EFA Medien (A huge company with more than 10,000 records released)
- From this link https://d-nb.info/353035785 and the archived Chassalla website from 1999 (under “History”) https://web.archive.org/web/19991007024618/http://www.hessburg.de/chassalla/index.html it is also clear that the project is not a band in the classic sense, but rather a solo project in which different musicians have probably worked together time and again, as on the second album.
- https://www.discogs.com/de/label/43832-Apollyon-Rekordings?page=1
- https://www.discogs.com/de/label/25914-Apollyon?page=1
- https://www.discogs.com/de/label/2444-EFA?page=1
- Mark Hessburg's second album was released by Oblivion, a sub-label (250 titles released) of SPV GmbH (one of the largest independent record labels in the world, with more than 13,000 albums released). It was released by Eisenberg / Warner-Chappell Music and produced by Eisenberg's owner Carlos Perón, a founding member of the famous band Yello. https://subculturerecords.bandcamp.com/album/phoenix-out-of-the-ashes-remastered
- https://www.discogs.com/de/label/96109-SPV-GmbH?page=1
- In addition, material by Mark Hessburg has been released on various compilations by well-known labels such as ZYX or the compilation label “Double Power” by Sony Music, together with world-famous artists such as Vangelis, Jean-Michel Jarre, Alan Parsons, Klaus Schulze, Ofra Haza.
- https://www.discogs.com/de/artist/142930-Chassalla?superFilter=Appearances
- https://www.allmusic.com/album/mystic-spirits-vol-8-mw0000550889
- https://www.allmusic.com/album/best-of-beyond-the-skies-mw0000403718
- Point 6 also seems to apply:
- Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles.
- He also wrote a popular track for the 1994 album Intimacy by the Canadian wave/synthy pop band Psyche and performed with them at several concerts. The band was extremely successful in the scene, especially in the late 80s and early 90s, and as Anne Clark's support band they also became a name to audiences outside the scene.
- http://www.psyche-hq.de/history.html
- https://www.allmusic.com/album/legacy-mw0000403961
- Johannes Häusler, who was involved in the Chassalla project, was also a member of Psyche. Another musician, Christian Rossbach, was later a member of Madre del Vizio. A well-known italo gothic rock band https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madre_del_Vizio
- Point 7 possibly applies:
- Has become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Wikipedia standards, including verifiability.
- In the early 90s, Chassalla was one of the few music projects from this scene in the greater Kassel area and was mentioned several times in the local media such as HNA and Infotip. Of course, this only exists on paper in old publications and not online.
- As for the rest of his career:
- Almost all the sound design projects listed here are well-known in Germany and from the major TV channels. https://www.crew-united.com/de/Mark-Hessburg_285998.html on IMDB you can also find international titles such as Paris Hilton's Simple Life or Om Shanti Om with Shah Rukh Khan.
- So the claim to work as a sound designer is also proven.
- If you make the effort, you will also find out that he ran the Green-Hill Studio in Kassel https://green-hill.de with the later producer of the famous German rapper Prinz Pi. You have to combine these three sources
- https://www.hna.de/kultur/hiphop-gemacht-2962664.html
- https://www.discogs.com/de/release/164059-RAS-Rhythmic-Altered-State
- https://www.allmusic.com/album/rhythmic-altered-state-mw0000221647#credits
- You can also find the connection to the Algerian world musician Hamid Baroudi from Dissidenten via this link. https://www.allmusic.com/artist/mark-hessburg-mn0002004719#credits
- A list of references on its website also includes several successful mobile game titles, such as Atlantic Fleet and Sky Gamblers https://www.hessburg.com/references.html
- Press mentions as a game developer, which you can find quite quickly
- BZ (Axel Springer Verlag) https://www.bz-berlin.de/archiv-artikel/news-50
- https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/2011/02/14/preview-wolves-of-the-atlantic-for-iphone-submarine-sim/
- https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-flare-path-topical-titbits#more-355119
- https://deutscher-marinebund.de/service/u-995-kompass-app/
- https://web.archive.org/web/20140609061555/https://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/long-way-tipperary-wolves-atlantic-ambitious-u-boat-sim-youve-ever-seen/
- https://www.148apps.com/news/wota-uboat-compass-wets-appetite-wota-wolves-atlantic/
- https://de.paperblog.com/wota-wolves-of-the-atlantic-weltkriegs-u-boot-simulation-fur-ios-und-desktop-pc-fakten-und-features-ins-deutsche-ubersetzt-860990/
- Incidentally, the rough content of the deleted Chassalla article can still be found online in a similar version, which would be a good start for expanding the article.: https://www.last.fm/music/Chassalla/+wiki 2003:C4:C70B:274E:19BA:543C:1764:8CF6 (talk) 00:59, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
- @2003:C4:C70B:274E:19BA:543C:1764:8CF6 Thank you for your participation in this discussion. For the record, I'll stand by my previous opinion. X (talk) 07:01, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Promo BLP. Fails GNG and NBIO. The sources in the article and above do not meet WP:SIRS, addressing the subject directly and indepth. Found promo material, interviews, listings, nothing that meets SIRS from independent non-promotional sources addressing the subject indepth. NACTOR points above boil down to ILIKEIT, not SIGCOV from independent reliable sources. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 08:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Anyone care to take on a rebuttal of the many points issued by the IP editor?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.