Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mukesh Hariawala

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Seems clear enough from the discussion DGG ( talk ) 10:11, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mukesh Hariawala

Mukesh Hariawala (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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This article is so heavily promotional that it is difficult to tell, but I do not think the subject is notable. Every source I looked at appeared to be a press release. Googling the subject turned up a lot of pieces that looked like a lot more press releases. agtx 16:32, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 16:48, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep I think some work needs to be done, many of the refs are inappropriate (I saw one circling back to Wikipedia, which is a RS no-no). After that's done, we might have a better picture, but I think notability might be able to be established given the awards. If someone can provide me with more context though, I might change my viewpoint. I am just barely off the fence. South Nashua (talk) 20:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    @South Nashua: I was wondering about the awards too, but when I google, them, they come up awfully thin. I mean, "Indian Healthcare Visionary of the Decade Award"? I can't even tell who's giving this award. Same with the "India's Most Admired Surgeon Award." Wherever these accolades are coming from, it doesn't appear to be any scholarly or governmental body. This article just doesn't convince me that it's anything more than marketing. agtx 22:51, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    @Agtx: I honestly am not sure either, it does seem on the borderline of being okay. My personal rule is that whenever I'm not sure of whether or not an article meets criteria to be deleted, I give it some time to let things settle out. I think this is a good example of where that rule comes into play. If I can get some more clarity, I might switch my viewpoint to deletion on this one though, it's just not clear to me as it is right now. South Nashua (talk) 23:20, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. North America1000 19:08, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 19:08, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the valuable suggestions, edits and valid questions. This certainly will improve the quality of the article in discussion regarding Dr. Mukesh Hariawala.

My responses to questions raised: This article is intended to cover new scientific knowledge in the field of Angiogenesis, Stem Cells, and its relationship to Heart Surgery. The references cited are content related to help students, scholars and academicians for supplementary reading. This article is no way intended to promote an individual or any company. I will respect any deletions within article if thought in your judgment to be promotional. The awards in the Select Honours and Awards sub-section are only a small part of Dr. Mukesh Hariawala's academic track and no glorification or promotion of any kind is intended.


1. Question on Notability: Answer: Dr. Mukesh Hariawala can be referenced from his other award in the U.S. listed in the Harvard Gazette for the same scientific work on Angiogenesis. This article.(http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/1997/03/newsmakers-109/)


2. Question on India’s Most Admired Surgeon Award: Answer: As per my research this award is selected by peers of the Medical Profession in India. Award Link (http://www.indiamedicaltimes.com/2012/08/01/dr-mukesh-hariawala-to-receive-india%E2%80%99s-most-admired-surgeon-2012-award/) It is delivered by The Government of India appointed Governor at a felicitation event. In this case it was Governor K. Sankaranarayanan whose position is well documented and indexed in Wikipedia. Link to Governor K. Sankaranarayanan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Sankaranarayanan)

Previous Indian Cardiac Surgeon winners of this award include Wikipedia Indexed Surgeons:

a. Dr. Ramakanta Panda Link to Dr. Ramakanta Panda (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakanta_Panda)

b. Dr. Devi Shetty Link to Dr. Devi Shetty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devi_Shetty)


3. Question on Healthcare Visionary of the Decade Award: Answer: This award is conferred following National ballot after shortlisting of contenders organised by India Leadership Conclave which is an indexed organisation in Wikipedia. Link to India Leadership Conclave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_Leadership_Conclave#cite_note-14)

Other notable winners at the same year event in different categories are Forbes listed Billionaires and highly respected Businessmen in India & Globally. [ http://www.aninews.in/newsdetail-MTA/MzI3NzAz/top-healthcare-economist-dr-mukesh-hariawala-gets-prestigious-award-along-with-industrialists-tata-and-ambani-re-issue-.html Award Link] (http://www.aninews.in/newsdetail-MTA/MzI3NzAz/top-healthcare-economist-dr-mukesh-hariawala-gets-prestigious-award-along-with-industrialists-tata-and-ambani-re-issue-.html)

They are both Indexed in Wikipedia. a. Mr. Ratan Tata Link to Mr. Ratan Tata (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratan_Tata)

b. Mr. Mukesh Ambani Link to Mr. Mukesh Ambani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukesh_Ambani)


In conclusion, I have made a conscious effort to maintain Wikipedia neutrality standards and my only goal is to add scientific value to this article. I am a new Wikipedia content contributor and any suggestions will be respectfully incorporated in the article. Thanks. --Saipawar4 (talk) 08:17, 5 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

This just doesn't sit right. Even the responses don't add up. There's nothing in the source about the "India’s Most Admired Surgeon Award" that says anything about the governor. The other award appears to be from something called "Network 7 Media Group," who created the
WP:PAID editing. @Saipawar4: Do you have a financial stake in this article? agtx 21:17, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply
]
The Governor presenting the award is in this source with a photo of it here It would be useful to have the view of specialist medical editors Atlantic306 (talk) 21:31, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I take it back on the governor then. But yes, I think input from folks in the medical sphere would be helpful. agtx 21:36, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To Medical Editors

Dear Medical Editors,

As regards my maiden Wiki article which is up for “Deletion.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukesh_Hariawala

I have reviewed extensively other similar Doctor Articles and have used them as a benchmark. Additionally, I have ensured neutrality, notability, contributions to society by the Subject and future usefulness to the end User or Reader of this article, particularly Doctors, Scientists, Students, Academicians, Professors of Medicine and the Public at large.

The Content of the article is supported by:

1. Credible "124" Internal Wikipedia Links to the subject matter.

2. Citation Links in articles are to highly credible sources such as National Library of Medicine, Washington/ U.S. Link: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/

3. The results of my research on the article subject is linked here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Hariawala&cmd=DetailsSearch

4. No “Press Releases” of any kind have been used in the article as a source of reference to justify content. Other sources that I have used in my “100+ References” in the article are from published materials by Editors of New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, Times of India, World Cardiothoracic Surgeons Network (CTSNet), Asian News International (http://www.aninews.in/aboutus.html) this is source of all news outlets in Asia, SIFY News (One of the largest news providers in India.), India Medical Times and Yahoo News.

5. In one of the Awards Listed, Harvard Gazette which has been referenced as a source in my article http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/1997/03/newsmakers-109/

6. In the article the referenced people who are mentors of Dr. Mukesh Hariawala at Harvard in Boston. They are noted Professors and Noble Laureates like Professor Amartya Sen and Sir Magdi Yacoub who is Knighted by the Queen of England.

7. All the accreditations and higher qualifications of Dr. Mukesh Hariawala in the article like FRCS, FACS, FICS are directly indexed in Wikipedia.

8. Out of roughly over 50 awards to Dr. Mukesh Hariawala in his career I have carefully stated only 5 which have documentation in the article that were presented by the highest government officials of India. (Governor and President of India.) a. Governor K. Sankaranarayanan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Sankaranarayanan b. President of India A. P. J. Abdul Kalam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._J._Abdul_Kalam

9. In the Article the 2 or 3 companies listed in the content for Ventricular Assist Device or Shockwave or Stem Cells have been provided with a link simply to facilitate the reader for additional educational information. If in the judgment of the editors these links seem inappropriate I would have no concerns to them being deleted.

To the best of my knowledge and editing skills there is no English or Punctuation error in the entire Article.

Finally, I have no commercial interest in this article and have done my best to conform to Wikipedia guidelines. I am looking forward to ongoing contributions to several other Wikipedia Articles that would fall in the domain of my expertise.

Thank You. --Saipawar4 (talk) 09:24, 8 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 02:21, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would urge whichever admin closes this AfD not just to close as keep because the user who created the article makes long posts on this page. I understand the user has denied having a commercial interest, but this feels like a conflict. Even the picture description on Commons references direct communication with the article's subject. Something fishy is going on here. agtx 15:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Reply In accordance with Wikipedia guidelines and author transparency, I have in "Commons" intentionally kept the copy of communication with subject only to procure original signature and photograph that is copyright free with details of photographer.

This communication was necessary as it was the only means to get these 2 items to complete the article. I reiterate that I do not have any conflict of interest. Thanks--Saipawar4 (talk) 17:55, 17 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  • Leaning delete. Please, no wall-of-text reply. (And I'm not going to read most of the wall-of-text above.) The page, as is, is a mess and comes across as
    WP:COIN, because COI issues should be addressed there more so than here. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Response to 95% Deletion by Vandals Copy of my communication to Oversight Management of Wikipedia.

Dear Editors,

This is to bring to your urgent attention the ganging up of a group of people who have destroyed an 110 citations solidly supported article to reducing it to a 1 paragraph and 5 references of a notated Harvard Trained and acclaimed National Award winning Doctor. I had spent about 100 hours working to ensure it met Wikipedia Notable persons article.

This was my final edited version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mukesh_Hariawala&oldid=795608544


Versus the current mutliated form:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukesh_Hariawala


Deletion Page Discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mukesh_Hariawala

You can clearly see here that no true contribution or constructive edits have been offered by any of these vandals especially on the content of the article. Neither of them have any educational background to participate in medical related articles.


Since I am not a hired person by the subject or have any financial interest or any conflict of interest, I have now voluntarily removed the article in full and will seize to contribute in the future. Additionally, it is a humiliation of the subject of the article. This is extremely damaging to Wikipedia reputation and disheartening to any future Wikipedia contributor.

This is a clear of internal vandalism who are sabotaging the mission of Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) 08:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  • Comment I am the Oversighter who responded to the above ticket, which clearly doesn't fall under the suppression policy. During the investigation, I found that Saipawar4 had moved the target page to someone else's userspace, where he restored the pruned content. (I haven't run CheckUser to see if these are socks, but I'm sorely tempted.) He then deleted the redirect, which caused a bunch of confusion until I figured out what had happened. I moved the page back to its target and I think all is back to normal. I have warned Saipawar4 not to do it again, but just in case he doesn't get it, I have move-protected the page for a week, which I assume will cover the remainder of the AFD discussion. I have no opinion on the merits of the article, but I don't like the behavior here. Katietalk 12:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I have finished removing non-notable information from the article. I may have removed too much, however the article was so biased that any information that needs to be added should be re-added by neutral editors. CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:07, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as it stands there is nothing notable. If info and sources can be included, within Wikipedia's rules, that might be a different story, but I doubt it will happen. Smallbones(smalltalk) 13:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I concur with *:@Smallbones: . Since 98% of the article is deleted by user *:@CoolieCoolster: there is no point a leaving a thin string of words, since it is no more an article. What's the point of bring back bits and pieces. --Saipawar4 (talk) 13:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    • @Saipawar4: I simply removed insufficiently notable information. He is possibly notable for being a surgeon, but not for minor appearances in films. The article was too detailed for the notability of the person it was talking about. Perhaps some things I removed should be re-added, but in a more neutral tone. At the moment, I believe the article has enough information to know whether or not it is notable, as before it was too stuffed with non-notable information to be able to tell. CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:38, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 22:10, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentative keep. Delete. His article
    WP:ACADEMIC; I'm not familiar enough with cites for doctors to be 100% sure, though. I've cleaned the page up a little, a lot more is needed. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Vote changed to "delete" – even if he is notable because of his citations, there are too many problems here: it'd be preferable to
COI editor start afresh if that seems desirable. Tryptofish, the highly-cited article is here. It's the same article that Saipawar4 describes higher up this page as "my article". Make of that what you will. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:57, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply
]
Thanks for the article link. And it gets stranger and stranger, because that article is not a medical study in humans at all, but rather a more basic animal study. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:58, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lots of issues, leaning delete The treatments mentioned are not medical treatments but alt med stuff it appears. They were sources to the popular press. The pictures need proper release. He is listed as the author but is not. IMDb is user generate content. Yahoo news is also not a good source. This is too spammy. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add to the issues: where is he licensed to practice medicine? I don't see any listing at State of Mass online search. One of the sources in the article said he underwent a "chanhge in profession" in 2013 or 2014 to become an actor. ☆ Bri (talk) 05:14, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add to the oddities : found this name at the FRCS search, but granted fellowship in 2003, which doesn't match this biography. Something is very odd here. ☆ Bri (talk) 05:48, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Request to Approve Speedy Deletion This article is no more of the biography of the subject. No attempts should be made to edit or revive it. I've nominated it for speedy deletion as per CSD G7 since I am the original author of the article. Thank you --Saipawar4 (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2017 (UTC) — Saipawar4 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I don't think it's eligible for CSD, but the consensus here is becoming pretty clear, I think. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:59, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Tryptofish, plus the whole spam thing going on. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 15:50, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as above, this is just an attempt at a spam piece. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:03, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This was a rather blatant piece of promotional editing to my eye. Also I am not seeing the significant coverage in high quality, reliable, independent sources about Mr Hariawala needed to create a proper biography. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 17:35, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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