Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/North Hudson, New Jersey

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 07:14, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

North Hudson, New Jersey

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North Hudson, New Jersey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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The best I can tell, this is a made-up designation. I have never heard of anyone referring to these towns collectively as "North Hudson" and I cannot find any reliable source that does so either. Since North Hudson is not a legal designation,

Rusf10 (talk) 02:35, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Note: This discussion has been included in the
Rusf10 (talk) 02:35, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Note: This discussion has been included in the
Rusf10 (talk) 02:35, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue
North Hudson County Railway
North Hudson Community Action Corporation
North Hudson Sewerage Authority
North Hudson Park
North Hudson Hospital
North Hudson Campus] of Hudson County Community College
Hudson County Schools of Technology North Hudson Center
NoHU
North Hudson Islamic Center
North Hudson Academy
etc, etc, etc Djflem (talk)
  • It's actually not a poor nomination at all - this isn't a legally defined place, and the fact that it gets used to identify businesses and a regional fire and rescue service doesn't mean that we should have an article on
    WP:SYNTH. One source used to show the population density of North Hudson, [1], supports calling the region the "Gold Coast" and doesn't use the phrase "North Hudson" at all. Another source, [2], calls it "West New York." [3] discusses North Hudson Park, but not North Hudson. There's no source I've seen yet which actually defines this place. A similar geography AfD which comes to mind is the "East Minnesota" one. SportingFlyer T·C 06:17, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
the best I can tell,I have never heard as a basis for nom make it a poor one. Please provide a definition of a legally defined place.what is a legally defined place? Please explain North Jersey, Central Jersey and South Jersey, and New York Harbor providing their proof of their "legal definitions" to back up your argument about "legal definitions". Please provide any Wikipedia policy that you can demonstrate that "legal definitions" is in anyway a criterium.Djflem (talk) 19:12, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously a legally defined place is its official name or at least one that the government recognizes. I don't know how else to explain it to you. That certainly is not the case here. While the examples you give are not legal names, they are in common usage and there is plenty of "non-trivial coverage in multiple, independent reliable sources" to support that. I've never heard anyone use the term "North Hudson" before and you can only give one example of where a reliable source has actually used the term to describe the same thing as this article (as opposed to a fire department or hospital).--
Rusf10 (talk) 22:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
No need to explain. "Legally defined' is non-criteria, hence irrelevant, as pointed out. Government (legally) named/affiliated organization are: Hudson County Community College North Hudson Campus, Hudson County Braddcok-North Hudson Park, North Hudson Regional Council of Mayors, North Hudson Sewerage Authority, North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue, Hudson County Schools of Technology North Hudson Center, North Hudson Community Action Corporation Djflem (talk) 23:26, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
"Legally defined" is neither non-criteria nor irrelevant at all,
WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 02:40, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
As seen:
  • "Jersey City, Hudson River Waterfront Transportation Corridor Improvements, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System (HBLRTS), Hudson County, Bergen County: Environmental Impact Statement". 18 June 1996 – via Google Books.
  • Sullivan, Joseph F. (22 September 1974). "Site of New Hospital Disputed" – via NYTimes.com.
  • Dawn, Summer (24 June 2015). "Is Hudson County home to some of N.J.'s worst places to live? Report says yes". nj.com.
  • Villanova, Patrick (14 August 2018). "Want to be a firefighter in North Hudson? Here's where to start". nj.com.
  • Cunningham, John T. (18 June 1994). This is New Jersey. Rutgers University Press. p. 100 – via Internet Archive. north hudson townships.
  • Ph.D, Reed Ueda (21 September 2017). "America's Changing Neighborhoods: An Exploration of Diversity through Places [3 volumes]". ABC-CLIO – via Google Books.
  • North Hudson Regional Council of Mayors
  • Meals on Wheels administered by the North Hudson Regional Council of Mayors
  • Audit North Hudson Regional Council of Mayors

Djflem (talk) 21:36, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is really just
Rusf10 (talk) 22:19, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Try this: A neologism is a relatively recent or isolated term, word, or phrase that may be in the process of entering common use, but that has not yet been fully accepted into mainstream language. But thanks for pointing out that your nominamation rationale The best I can tell, this is a made-up designation. I have never heard of anyone referring to these towns collectively as "North Hudson" and I cannot find any reliable source that does so either. is invalid. Djflem (talk) 23:04, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You obviously did not read what I wrote, I said "at best this is a neologism". So yes, it basically is made-up (see
Rusf10 (talk) 23:55, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Yes, I read your attempt to try to cite a non-applicable policy.Djflem (talk) 00:07, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As stated in Wikipedia policies

WP:DABCONGEO there is no reason for deletion of a place name of a defined region that is historical, contemporary, and defines numerous names based on geography of the place where they are located.Djflem (talk) 10:06, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Please don't parrot the same stupid links Andrew D. always does - just because weren't not paper doesn't mean whatever the hell you want to write is immune from deletion or change – an alternative to deletion is to preserve content in a merge, and
WP:SYNTHESIS
.
For example, you have the line "and North Hudson became the 'embroidery capitol of the United States'": besides the misspelling, the Times citation refers specifically to West New York, not North Hudson. Another line says "Simultaneously middle-class and professional Cubans...re-located to the area[19]...leading to the nickname "Havana on the Hudson"." Why did you deliberately obscure the fact that your citation says "Union City is more than its old nickname, "Havana on the Hudson," suggests"? So much of this article synthesizes content that is already at the county or city articles, and while this region may be called North Hudson for the convenience of collecting several smaller cities across the Lincoln Tunnel, just as they efficiently consolidated a fire department, it's excessive to artificially integrate their "Character" and geography separately from the rest of the county when independent sources do not discuss these sections together under this name. Reywas92Talk 19:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As stated...the key point is that sure, people call the northern part of Hudson County North Hudson. Thus the name for the northern part of Hudson County is North Hudson. Agreed?Djflem (talk) 15:54, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any proof that backs up this assertion? I've lived in New Jersey most of my life and I have never heard this term.--
Rusf10 (talk) 00:44, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Rusf10 having heard of term is not Wikipedia criteria; but now they have, so its unclear why ignorance of it is repeated.Djflem (talk) 10:48, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:31, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Even the ivote delete participants note acknowledge:
"After some research, the term "North Hudson" appears to be a term for the general region..." (SportingFlyer)
"The key point is that sure, people call the northern part of Hudson County North Hudson..." (Reywas92)
  • Find two proper sources that actually define the term and I'll change my vote to a keep. SportingFlyer T·C 21:04, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@SportingFlyer:
Dia, Hannington; Writer, Staff (13 May 2018). "Meet neighbors in North Hudson".
Hudson Reporter
. Retrieved 23 June 2019. "Only in NoHu," a group for people in North Bergen, Weehawken, West New York, Guttenberg, and Union City – all in northern Hudson County.
"North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue". Retrieved June 25, 2019. Covering the North Hudson towns of Guttenberg, North Bergen, Union City, Weehawken and West New York
Varone, Curtis (2014), Legal Considerations for Fire and Emergency Services, Fire Enginering Books,
ISBN 9781593703479
, North Hudson's Residency Requirement
"NJ Employment Discrimination in Hiring North Hudson County Firefighters". Castronovo & McKinney. 2011. Retrieved June 24, 2019. ...comprised of five towns in northern Hudson County – Guttenberg, North Bergen, Union City, Weehawken, and West New York
Heinis, John (15 December 2011). "Court rules North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue residency policy discriminates against blacks". nj.com. Retrieved 26 June 2019. ...as of 2000, the population of North Hudson's member municipalities North Bergen, Weehawken, West New York, Guttenberg and Union City...
"Disparate Impact Case Turns On Battle Of The Experts". Workplace Class Action Blog. 15 December 2011. Retrieved 26 June 2019. North Hudson fire department was formed in 1998, and it was comprised of firefighters from five New Jersey municipalities, including Guttenberg, North Bergen, Union City, Weehawken, and West New York. North Hudson maintained a requirement that all firefighter candidates must live within the five North Hudson towns to be eligible for hire...
"Jersey City, Hudson River Waterfront Transportation Corridor Improvements, Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Transit System (HBLRTS), Hudson County, Bergen County: Environmental Impact Statement". Federal Transit Administration. 1996. p. Waterfront Study Area Districts Figure 4.5 (map). Retrieved June 30, 2019.
Djflem (talk) 14:28, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Djflem (talk) 22:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • HEY. Current version (after revision) should be basis for any discussion. Above references should be addressed. Djflem (talk) 13:39, 28 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Comment As with
    a place, both North Hudson and West Hudson are recognizable distinct regions. To keep one and not others is inconsistent and diminishes Wikipedia's validity as a encyclopedia.Djflem (talk) 08:44, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 06:43, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I scoured it and can't find anything promotional or COI. When you've got a well written, encyclopedic article that is well references, in the absence of COI or Promotion or this just being made up, I would give the benefit of the doubt that people call it that in that area and commonly see it as such. Cheerio042 (talk) 20:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC) Striking blocked sock Britishfinance (talk) 10:48, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just because it's not promotional or COI does not mean it should be kept. What reason do you actually have for it to be kept? I can assure you that people in that area do not commonly use the term "North Hudson" since I lived near that area. You must come up with examples of reliable sources that use this term in reference to the area.--
Rusf10 (talk) 00:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
As editor said, "When you've got a well written, encyclopedic article that is well references, in the absence of COI or Promotion..." Rustof10 claims & assurances are of no import here.
Wikipedia:IKNOWIT is a compeletely invalid, but they keep repeating it, rather than addressing the references provided. When is Rusf10 going to address the facts? Djflem (talk) 05:35, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Just repeating first-hand
WP:NOR environment. (Also please excuse my repetition:) StonyBrook (talk) 04:55, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
What editor said above:"I scoured it".... "When you've got a well written, encyclopedic article that is well references, [sic] in the absence of COI or Promotion..." it would seem that you need to specifically state what is OR. Please do. Djflem (talk) 06:13, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This quote from before I can assure you that people in that area do not commonly use the term "North Hudson" since I lived near that area. Sounds pretty OR to me. StonyBrook (talk) 10:05, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@
Rusf10 (talk) 02:00, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@
Wikipedia:NOTGETTINGIT. The references are in the article and above. Please address them.Djflem (talk) 06:08, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@StonyBrook: Yes, that would be correct way to disambiguate & make standard.Djflem (talk) 05:51, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - well-sourced article about a definable place. "Importance" is not the same as
    notability, which this passes. Bearian (talk) 16:48, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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