Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tunes of Heaven

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Many of the keep arguments are based on

WP:INHERIT. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply
]

Tunes of Heaven

Tunes of Heaven (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
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Non notable album by an even non-notable artist. The artist's article itself is full of dubious information and claims. Anyway, there is no independent third party coverage. Nor is the artist even notable as a musician. The creator of the page removed my prod tag, so, I propose Deletion here. Ragib (talk) 22:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep- Notable composer.keystoneridin! (talk) 23:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notable composer? The subject has never received any coverage by any news or other media (not to mention this is his first album (self-published or otherwise)). So, I guess you have some other justification to support your statement? --Ragib (talk) 23:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Album not notable in any way shape or form. Composer's notability is equally dubious, and none of the sources back the claims. OhNoitsJamie Talk 01:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (STRONG)- Notable compostions of notable person.--Planetbd (talk) 02:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Would you like to explain how the first ever album of a person becomes notable without any media (in any language) talking about it at all? Any references to support this claim? Also, is the album notable because it is by Mushfiqul Alam, or is Mushfiqul Alam notable because of composing this album? Aren't we running in circles here? :) --Ragib (talk) 02:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would also like mention that the artist's own biography is under AFD for non-notability at this moment. --Ragib (talk) 03:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • STRONG KEEP - This is the only Compositional album released in the history of Bangladesh (1971-2009) and a piece of honor for each and every Bangladeshi, so the article should be supported by all the Bangladeshi.--Musicmaniaz (talk) 06:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please use a single account when stating opinions here. Sorry for my language here, but what you say above is an absolute lie. And Wikipedia is not a divided into national fan clubs that Bangladeshi wikipedians are "required to" support non-notable self-promoting work as the subject. Finally, please show a reference from a reliable source that gives coverage to the article. Otherwise, what multiple fans / socks say about the article will mean nothing. --Ragib (talk) 06:19, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for the confusion, but what evidence is there that this user is using multiple accounts? Greg Tyler (t • c) 16:48, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Greg, for the question. Planetbd and Musicmaniaz are the same user (most likely Mr. Alam himself). Both of these users used the IP 117.18.231.1 and several other 117.18.* IPs. The Tunes article has been edited exclusively by the Musicmaniaz user name, and between two such edits, we have the IP 117.18.231.1 editing that page. On the contrary, Planetbd has not edited that article, however, by his own admission, 117.18.231.15 is his IP. A simple checkuser can expose this sockpuppetry by this person. Apart from that, the same user has used the sock Wikibd as well. The subject is virtually unknown in Bangladesh ... so it is highly unlikely that two or more die hard fans with similar edit patterns and almost same IP addresses will emerge independently. In any case, if you doubt me, I'd recommend running a checkuser. --Ragib (talk) 21:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Most likely Keystoneridin is our another ID (sock) as he voted to Keep the article also according to Ragib's voice. Excess activities with lies of Ragib to delete the article are looking really dirty at Wikipedia.--Musicmaniaz (talk) 04:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
LOL, attempting to delete a non-notable album is "dirty" :). Well, thank you very much. --Ragib (talk) 06:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment- I am not a sock. I voted to keep the article because it shows some promise. I will comment on your page.keystoneridin! (talk) 05:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keystoneridin, I didn't want to offend you at all, what I wanted to mean that User:Ragib is trying to declare that all the IDs that are voting to Keep the article are same person is wrong. Hope you understand my point of view.--Musicmaniaz (talk) 06:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And I never called you one. Just requested to add a few justificatios to your statement, as is required when someone expresses an opinion in an AFD (which is not a vote, rather a discussion). --Ragib (talk) 06:32, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As for Musicmaniaz, suppose for argument's sake you and the other userID using the same IP address are separate persons ... even then, you, the other person from the same IP, or keystoneridin has not introduced a shred of supporting references to establish the notability of the album. Yes, I have a motive here, to keep such non-notable self-promotional vanity pieces out of Wikipedia. Rather than finding my hidden motive, why not show some references, if there are ANY? --Ragib (talk) 06:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Mr. Ragib, The album is certainly the first of its kind in Bangladesh for sure that is known by any music fan in Bangladesh (I'm sure you know it too, please specify in case I missed the second one). Since Wikipedia accepts only newspapers as references (in general), I couldn't find such "online reference" although the Fact is like broad daylight. In the same way, I failed to find any "online refrence" for the article Firoza Begum that I created also. Although every Bangladeshi know about her life long contributions to Bangladeshi Music but I'm sure that article is going to be deleted soon because of lack of so called "online reference". As a Bangladeshi you must know these online/offline references for Bangladeshi issues. As a senior editor of Wikipedia, you could help me to improve the articles with your experiences, rather you just threw the artcle as well as the other one regarding the composer at AFD.
Sometimes it is called "The Bangladeshi are the worst enemies of the Bangladeshi". I just wanted to improve and creat articles at Wikipedia regarding Bangladeshi Music which are not much developed comparing other articles, but you made me hopeless. Anyway, I will just be waiting to see the articles that I created or improved to be deleted from the Wikipedia one by one. Be well.--Musicmaniaz (talk) 12:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
NO, I do NOT "know" that the album is anything special. Judging from the lack of coverage, it seems that no one else "knows" that as well. The claim that there are no online news media in Bangladesh is a gross misstatement. Take your example (Firoza Begum), I found at least 6-10 online references to her work at first try. Finally, please do not continuously play the "Bangladeshi" card. Wikipedia is not a country-based association that Bangladeshi wikipedians are supposed to overlook attempts of gaming the system, and tolerate self-promotional vanity articles like these. --Ragib (talk) 15:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wonderment: Musicmaniaz writes above that this is a piece of honor for each and every Bangladeshi, so the article should be supported by all the Bangladeshi. It's a remarkable article, saying as it does (after markup-stripping) that Tunes Of Heaven is a Compositional album released in Bangladesh composed by composer, Mushfiqul Alam. Just out of interest, is there anything about it or its honorable composer in bn:WP? Or, more importantly, how do "all the Bangladeshi" (or just some of them) express their interest in this album? -- Hoary (talk) 23:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, there is nothing on the album or the author in Bengali Wikipedia. He is virtually (if not completely) unknown in the Bangladeshi music scene. --Ragib (talk) 23:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - There are 1.56 million users of Citycell within the IP range of 117.18.*.* and there should be many wikipedians among the users. It's a basic sense of technology that similar/same IP can be used by many persons in different times. User:Ragib is trying to bluff wikipedians with his lies regarding IPs.--Planetbd (talk) 02:49, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but it's an amazing coincidence that two of the *only* fans of this album use the same IP address (differing only in the last bits!!) do it within a day or so :). But anyway, did you manage to find any reference supporting the new "Beethoven"? :) --Ragib (talk) 05:51, 9 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - There is no coverage in reliable sources about this album that would establish notability - Whpq (talk) 16:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: In case the afd closing admin finds it difficult to find consensus here, I would recommend relisting it. The "keep" voters haven't been able to justify their opinions by providing any references, or any arguments (other than "honorable person" claim). Still, if the closing admin thinks there is no consensus, please relist it to allow more people to take a look at it. --Ragib (talk) 20:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The one and only (and self-published) CD, which has garnered no criticism that has been cited above, by a musician who appears to be otherwise unknown. No evidence that this of more than infinitesimal significance, however vigorously it has been promoted (as by "the new Beethoven", etc) on various message forums. -- Hoary (talk) 22:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, (X! · talk)  · @274  ·  05:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Non-notable album. Fails
    reliable sources for both this article and its musician. The "keep" votes all have unconvincing arguments. Cunard (talk) 07:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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