Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 7

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May 7

Category:Puerto Rican people of American descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 21:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Redundant. Puerto Ricans are Americans. This would be like a category for English people of British descent. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 23:49, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. I can sort of see a logic behind what the creator was trying to do here — since Puerto Ricans are defined as a specific ethnic group within the larger American umbrella, they were trying to capture people who also have other non-Puerto Rican ancestry from the mainland US — but for the precise reason the nominator points out, they missed, and I'm not convinced that renaming it for increased clarity would actually make it any more
    WP:DEFINING either. Bearcat (talk) 14:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete another useless descent category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Carlossuarez46 Rathfelder (talk) 19:41, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Place Clichy (talk) 09:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:People from Gibraltar

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge both into Category:Gibraltarians. Since Category:Gibraltarian people was created first, that one will be renamed first, and then the other category merged into it. bibliomaniac15 18:53, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Unclear if there is supposed to be a distinction between the two categories, but I certainly dont see one, unless it is that People from Gibraltar were born there but are notable for what they did somewhere else. The anchor article is Gibraltarians Rathfelder (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Priyanka Chopra (Jonas) categories

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: keep. As a result of the discussion here, the article was moved back to Priyanka Jones. bibliomaniac15 18:56, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per main article,
Priyanka Chopra Jonas. Speedy declined. @Armbrust:. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:39, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Magazine company founders

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge/rename/delete. bibliomaniac15 21:59, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: There isn't a very clean distinction to be drawn between being a magazine founder and being a magazine company founder -- literally by definition, magazines are run by companies or organizations, so founding a company to run the magazine is very often part and parcel of the process of founding a magazine at all. And while it is true that magazines can technically also be founded as new projects under the auspices of media companies that already existed before the new magazine was launched, or new companies can be founded to take over already-existing magazines, those aren't particularly helpful or
defining hairs for the category system to split. The distinction just isn't unambiguous enough to need two separate category trees here. Bearcat (talk) 17:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Iranian Sound recordists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:57, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:SMALLCAT for just two people. The parent category Category:Sound recordists has just seven people in it, so it has not been and does not need to be subdivided by nationality at all -- and two people is not enough to warrant giving Iran special treatment if we're not subcatting any of the others. And even if for some implausible reason it were to be kept, it would still have to be renamed for the miscapitalization of "sound". No upmerging necessary, as the two people here were never actually removed from the parent in the process of adding this subcategory. Bearcat (talk) 17:16, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Pakistani mass media by language

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 19:06, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same topic, as far as I understand. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Swiss mass media by language

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename. bibliomaniac15 19:06, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per supercategory Category:Mass media in Switzerland and analogously to Category:Mass media in India by language‎. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Foreign-language mass media in Ukraine

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 19:08, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 February 23#Category:Foreign-language media in the United States and current Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2020 May 1#Category:Foreign-language mass media in the United States by state. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:47, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object -- I did not vote on US case, but perhaps I should have. Clearly where there is a majority language, "foreign" refers to a non-native language. The present name is clear and the target over complicated. Category names are better for being short. Where a fuller definition is needed the right place for it is in a headnote. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment; wouldn't 'Mass media in Ukraine by language' be the best option? And as for the notion that any non-majority language is 'foreign', that's clearly a logic that doesn't work. It would mean Catalan would be foreign language in Spain, for example. --Soman (talk) 17:39, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the only content of quite a long chain of categories starting at
    Oculi (talk) 18:25, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Merge per Oculi, rather to
    WP:C1. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:37, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Comment, abstaining from voting, but I think Marcocapelle might have a point. Unless it would be expanded, it is more efficient to keep it nice and "trimmed". If renamed, I support per nomination. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:43, 9 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • (changed vote) Delete -- The one article at the bottom of this tree is about Russian language TV in Ukraine. The follow nom relating to this will appropriately categorise that, so that this one (which is unlikely to get the required 5 items) becomes useless. The point about Catalan in Spain is a good one: Russian is a native language for certain residents. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:14, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Precise vote to Delete (in practice) from Merge to Category:Mass media in Ukraine per Oculi and Marcocapelle (in principle). In the case of Ukraine, foreign-language is bogus as one can wonder if Russian language media were foreign language in Soviet or Imperial times, or even Polish-language or German-language media in Western Ukraine in Commonwealth or Austrian times. Place Clichy (talk) 10:00, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Now that the follow-up nomination decided to delete thus category's only content, the discussion is moot and deletion is the only option. Place Clichy (talk) 21:26, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:African Americans in the media

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename with necessary purging of some of the subcats. bibliomaniac15 19:09, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per Category:American media personalities. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename and purge, this does not seem part of a broader "in the media" tree. The first two subcategories should be purged though, they do no belong after renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unnecessary race/ethnicity category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Wikipedia images in SVG format

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 20#Category:Wikipedia images in SVG format

Category:Working-class writers

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 22:06, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per
Wikipedia:ARBITRARYCAT, this is a collection of judgement calls based on one's status in the working class. User:Namiba 15:10, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
Oppose. I agree with @Soman. If someone wants to know about working-class writers, there should be a category for it.--Historyday01 (talk) 20:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, for example "[t]his tradition was beginning to change, and the first two decades of the new century saw the emergence of a new type of author, the proletärförfattare (proletarian writer) or arbetarförfattare (working-class writer), the former term implying a greater degree of political activism than the latter."[1] --Soman (talk) 21:09, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
An interesting comment, @Soman. It definitely bolsters the case for keeping the term.Historyday01 (talk) 02:35, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It may be a topic for a new article indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:16, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The topic is worthy of discussion in new articles and in the Wikipedia pages of authors. Assigning the category runs afoul of
    WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. RevelationDirect (talk) 03:30, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]

References

  1. ISBN 0-8032-4750-8
    .
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Specific letter-diacritic combinations

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename. bibliomaniac15 19:00, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Simpler name. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, also aligning with its Latin and Cyrillic subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:01, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.
    Oculi (talk) 12:02, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Country music festivals in London

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge and delete. bibliomaniac15 22:04, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:SMALLCAT for just one festival, which does not qualify for either of the normal exemptions from smallcat rules: we do not have any established scheme of "Specific-genre music festivals in City" subcategories, and neither of the merge targets are large enough to need special treatment on size management grounds. Genre music festivals are normally categorized at the level of the country without specific-city subcategories below that, and festivals by city are normally filed in one common city category without being segregated for genre -- and with just one festival here, one festival (same one double-filed!) in Category:Country music festivals in the United Kingdom and 57 festivals in Category:Music festivals in London, there's just no need for this. And since this is the only such category that exists for any city-genre combo in the entire world, both Category:Country music festivals by city and Category:Folk festivals by city will simply be empty if this goes. Bearcat (talk) 15:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:American ethnicity and descent

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 21:11, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to appropriate subcategories. These fail
WP:OCEGRS. User:Namiba 14:03, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
1) that is factually inaccurate. A number of them have fewer than 5 articles and 2) the size of the category isn't being argued. What is being argued is that they fail
WP:OCEGRS as non-notable intersections of ethnicity, nationality, and occupation.--User:Namiba 18:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The rationale cited for deletion has nothing to do with size.
WP:SMALLCAT. There could be thousands of left-handed Filipino hairdressers in Texas, that would still not be a topic. Place Clichy (talk) 17:55, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
In the above cases, American is the nationality and X is a stand-in for ethnicity. The only nationality we know these people have is American. That's why many have objected to lumping in everyone to "Asian descent" categories.--User:Namiba 12:46, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This is not untrue in principle. However, in many case these descent categories are the closest thing we have to ethnicity categories, and are used as such proxies both by editors found of ethnic labels who create such categories and add articles with a shovel, and by editors wary of such labels who have worked in the past here on CfD to rename many ethnic categories to descent categories, supposedly because this could be better sourced and give less room to personal interpretation. Despite the fact that one can have descent of a great-grand-parent of some nationality or ethnicity and not self-identify with this ethnicity, I believe that the wording of
WP:DEFINING
, and strictly applied this should have logically led to the deletion of almost all descent-occupation intersections categories (or the renaming of some of them to ethnicity-occupation intersections). Indeed in very few cases (such as feudal societies) is one's occupation defined by their descent stricto sensu. However your attempt to do so, which I supported and would still support as a rational outcome, has led to no consensus. The absence of consensus on this much-needed larger selection effort should not prevent us to delete a smaller set of blatantly ineligible categories when we find them.
Re:
WP:DEFINING, not its size. Place Clichy (talk) 13:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
As said, I have no problem with advocating overall deletion of descent x occupation categories, which is what you seem to be after in the end. I just have a problem with mixing up ethnicity and descent. The German example is a nice one, because nobody would refer to English-speaking people as belonging to a German ethnicity in case their grandparents emigrated to the United States. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:41, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I share this concern of confusion between ethnicity and descent. When individual category inclusions or entire categories use "descent" as a proxy for ethnicity, in my opinion they should often be removed on this ground alone. Place Clichy (talk) 00:18, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@
WP:EGRS explicitly cites descent categories about examples of "ethnicity" categories. There is therefore little doubt that the guideline applies to these categories. Place Clichy (talk) 02:25, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Populated places in Tešanj

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: speedy keep. Category populated by one more entry; withdrawing my nomination. Thanks
(non-admin closure) 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:10, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Can this category possibly includes more articles right now? If renamed, it could (and should) include Tešanj Castle, Tešanj RK and Category:Mass media in Tešanj as well. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 11:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I found quite a few for
    Oculi (talk) 11:59, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Jordanian internet celebrities

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 22:04, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: miscapitalisation of the proposed merge target. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 10:33, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Ben Lexcen

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 22:02, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT
Ben Lexcen is a world famous designer of sailing yachts and we have a viable subcategory for Category:Sailing yachts designed by Ben Lexcen. That main article is the only one directly in this eponymous category though and I can't think of a potential second article. (No objection to recreating later if I'm mistaken and we ever get up to 5 direct articles.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Scrapped ships

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 22:02, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:TRIVIALCAT
)
We have a number categories for the end of ships that are defining like Category:Ships sunk by kamikaze attack and Category:Ships sunk as dive sites. The articles in those categories are at least partially defined by the fates of their ships so readers could use those categories to find articles. But being scrapped is the normal, boring end for most modern ships and, if fully populated, this category would have thousands up thousands of articles and be unlikely to help navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:26, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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