Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 17

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September 17

Category:July 1785 events

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:29, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Isolated cat. 1 article. The article is already in 1785 tree so no merging necessary. –Aidan721 (talk) 22:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Latin historians

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Latin historians

Category:Formerly Azerbaijani-majority districts of Armenia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
WP:SMALLCAT and should be merged with Category:Districts of Armenia. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 20:43, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sociology of food

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: merge to
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Over-categorization: Two year old category with one article Gjs238 (talk) 19:09, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:1453 natural disasters

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Isolated year cat with only 2 articles (
WP:SMALLCAT). The 2 articles are already in Category:15th-century natural disasters and Category:1453 trees so no merging is necessary. –Aidan721 (talk) 18:31, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Religious leaders of ancient Rome

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Religious leaders of ancient Rome

Category:Cemeteries in Virginia

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:31, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT (1-2 articles). User:Namiba 17:47, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
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Category:Brock Badgers ice hockey players

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Brock Badgers ice hockey players

Category:Landmarks in Botswana by city

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:31, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:SMALLCAT. Botswana is a small country and the current category contains only 1 sub-category. User:Namiba 16:13, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Russian and Soviet emigrants

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: split between
(non-admin closure) HouseBlastertalk 16:43, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: “Russian and Soviet” is not a nationality. People of fifteen nationalities may have been formerly Soviet, and there’s no reason to equate the Russian Federation with the Soviet Union. This should lead to the splitting of subcategories.  —Michael Z. 18:09, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Split per nom. NLeeuw (talk) 20:18, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • If kept, it should become a container category for the Russian Empire, for the Soviet Union and for Russia. When split, a "see also" note should be added. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:40, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I could agree with the latter. NLeeuw (talk) 12:13, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Mutual see alsos with all 12 successor states, or with the 3 Baltic states that were occupied too? Certainly not just one, because it isn’t NPOV to broadly associate Soviet identity with one former republic than others, when some significant proportion of individual category members are not defined by that stereotype.  —Michael Z. 13:13, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • It would not violate NPOV since the Russian Federation was broadly accepted as the successor of the Soviet Union in the United Nations including its Security Council. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      What’s that got to do with a category for individual people, even if it were exactly true? They are not all employees of the Soviet and Russian governments or something. About 138 million Soviet people in 1991 were not Russians.  —Michael Z. 18:54, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:39, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Split per nom. No reason why Russian and Soviet should be merged while Ukraine and Kazakhstan are separate -- 67.70.25.175 (talk) 06:44, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CFDWM.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * it has begun... 16:12, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

So this was relisted because not all subcategories were included. Is there a requirement to CFD each one before this can be closed? Can someone generate a list of them all for discussion here?  —Michael Z. 17:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wattpad writers

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Wattpad writers

Category:19th-century writers on archaeological subjects

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Trivial intersection that is small, vague, and overlapping Mason (talk) 14:26, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just delete, they weren't archaeologists but rather
    pyramidologists and already categorized as such. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:08, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Judges in British India

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:34, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Could also be renamed to Judges from British India Mason (talk) 12:37, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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BCE to BC

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:35, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Propose renaming
Nominator's rationale: rename per
WP:C2C: Category:5th-century BC works
etc. By the way, I don't think I would oppose if anyone would propose to move all BC to BCE, but it is not helpful to just have texts in a deviant format. This was opposed for speedy.
copy of speedy discussion

– All C2C per Category:1st-millennium BC works. Brandmeistertalk 10:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose speedy for these five BCE categories. A shift to BC from BCE is not
    neutral due to the religious connotations of BC, and should be discussed. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 13:43, 16 September 2023 (UTC)}}[reply
    ]
@Brandmeister and BlackcurrantTea: pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • While using BCE or CE in some religion-sensitive articles is understandable, there's no reason to have some categories at BCE and others at BC. If BCE is to be used throughout all pages and categories, a wider discussion should take place rather than opposing here. Brandmeistertalk 14:19, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Support for consistency in naming. I don't have strong opinions about whether we use BC or BCE, and would be fine if we had a carve out for religious texts, as long as there's some consistency. Mason (talk) 17:54, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Oppose For consistency in naming, there's also Category:1st-millennium BCE texts, to which these five categories belong. (It has a speedy tag, but I don't see its posting there.) Of course, as Brandmeister notes, BC / BCE is a topic for a much larger discussion. However, considering the importance of neutrality in Wikipedia, it seems strange to shift categories from more-neutral names to less-neutral ones. One could simply leave them alone, with the various texts unrelated to Christianity. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 14:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Making some categories using BCE while the majority has BC is non-obvious for a casual reader. Categories are not articles where such difference could be evident. In fact, many, if not most, scholar publications use BC, it's no longer considered a Christian point of view, but rather an established common custom.
MOS:STYLEVAR. Brandmeistertalk 16:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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Category:Burial sites of the House of Mecklenburg

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Burial sites of the House of Mecklenburg

Category:Boran

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Boran

Category:Civil servants from the Ottoman Empire

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 September 29#Category:Civil servants from the Ottoman Empire

Category:Lesbians from Northern Ireland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep top level; merge the rest.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale:
SMALLCATs. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 01:25, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
  • A fair call on the writers and actresses; I have amended my submission. And I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to an alternate solution of collapsing the lower three all into Category:Lesbians from Northern Ireland; it'd still be a bit small at just four entries, but if that's big enough for everyone else then so be it. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 07:37, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also a good point, also amended. Clearly I was too fast for my own good when I put this proposal up. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 22:45, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral for now We can upmerge them for now, but I think a keep would also be warranted. I'm not persuaded either way. NLeeuw (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose merging parent category of Category:Lesbians from Northern Ireland. As smallcat notes an exception: "unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". British categories are typically split up into the four (wales, england, scotland, NI). However, I do support the rest of the merge, as those cats are really small. Mason (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep or merge Category:Lesbians from Northern Ireland?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 05:40, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep the top level, merge the subcats up to it. I'll grant that four is less than five, but it's close enough to five that a category with four articles in it can be defensible — and the fact that British categories are quartered as much as possible into separate subcategories for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is a pretty good defense. Bearcat (talk) 12:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge the three occupational categories, neutral on the parent category. Place Clichy (talk) 12:23, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People educated at Norwood Secondary College

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: delete.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:14, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: As per
WP:SMALLCAT. Only has 2 entries. LibStar (talk) 02:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Leaning Oppose. Small cat requires that the category not have the potential for growth. Mason (talk) 22:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for now, with no prejudice about re-creation at a later date if it can be filled to the usual level (5-6 minimum). I could only find one other article which would currently go into this category. Grutness...wha? 03:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 05:35, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Serial killers by nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep. I will nominate
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 13:20, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: First of all, please bare with me, I'm not too sure what action is correct in this instance, so rather than deletion it might actually be merge or split.
We currently have the categories "Female serial killers" and "Male serial killers". The female category has subcategories of female serial killers by country, whereas the "Male serial killers" category, has no subcategories.
I propose to keep consistency and have the "Male serial killers" category have subcategories of each of the countries. Whether this means deleting the "Serial killers by nationality", merging, or splitting, I'm not sure. Panamitsu (talk) Please ping on reply 03:31, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 05:35, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Near East

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was: no consensus on Near East, redirect Near Easter countries.
Nominator's rationale: merge the first two with redirect, per
WP:OVERLAPCAT, but keep Category:Ancient Near East since "Near East" is the term that is mostly used for ancient historiography. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Redirect Category:Near Eastern countries to Category:Middle Eastern countries as nominated. I agree with this, these are all modern states which can be properly called "Middle Eastern countries".
Keep Category:Ancient Near East as nominated. I agree with this per main article Ancient Near East being clearly distinct from Near East, which was the region's common name until the early 20th century. NLeeuw (talk) 10:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, purging one and merging/redirecting the other could be a solution too. I think Category:Near East would then at least need a description on the category page about what kind of articles should be in the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:20, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Keep or merge Category:Near East?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE 05:34, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia unreferenced articles improved

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
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The result of the discussion was: rename.
(non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 12:51, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Nominator's rationale: Proper grammar. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:39, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
support. grammar is improved Mason (talk) 14:42, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this section.
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