- Roblox (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (restore)
Hello, I am back at DRV with an updated version of the roblox article. Previously it was deleted for advertising and because the article did not indicate the importance of the subject. I have since found new references and feel that this notable game should have a Wikipedia article. I am hopefull that the article now meets your standards. If not, ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! gordonrox24 (talk) 19:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The article was deleted well over a year ago, so I think you can just go ahead and create it if you've found sufficient sources. –Juliancolton | Talk 19:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It was re-create numerous times and deleted. It is a kids game so once it was deleted there were hoards of angry 8 year olds spamming Wikipedia. This resulted in the page being create protected.--gordonrox24 (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not sure I'd count one as "many new references". Since the various drvs -
required standard as critiqued in previoius drvs. -- 82.7.40.7 ( talk) 22:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC) [reply ]
- All references on the page have been run through ]
- Unfortunately
WP:RS... TRUSTe is nothing to do with the product as such (a membership list) and is a primary source to show they are part of the program (which I guess pretty much anyone could be, so nothing special there). Which leaves Midweek which hasn't proved that convincing in previous DRVs and the new one. -- 82.7.40.7 ( talk) 22:24, 6 June 2009 (UTC) [reply ]
- TrustE is a privacy program that just enforces our point of a kid safe game. We also have this and this I just have not placed them is a specific spot yet.--gordonrox24 (talk) 00:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I know what TrustE is, the point is that anyone can sign up to it and the listing you give is just a list of members, it tells us nothing of any real interest about them as something they can "buy" there way into it doesn't help establish notability. The other two you've listed killerstartups.com which has featured in previous DRVs and been rejected. And your further examiner.com link, is exactly the same as the first reference in the article. As above you say it has been through
WP:RSN even though they are currently saying as above "examiner.com = paid blogging, no editorial oversight". I'm still not seeing the many new sources you claim, I'm seeing one. -- 82.7.40.7 ( talk) 09:38, 7 June 2009 (UTC) [reply ]
- Wording fixed. Hope that will make you stop tearing my statement apart and start giving me feedback and suggestion on the article like I asked.--gordonrox24 (talk) 13:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not about tearing your wording apart. This has been to DRV on quite a few times now, asking for more suggestions, the suggestion usually comes back to lack of reliable sourcing, it then comes back with little or no improvement on that. In this instance you do have some extra sourcing and as I said originally it might be enough to tip the balance. That however doesn't detract from some of the other sources being questionable and should probably be removed. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 14:43, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Consensus can change. It has in the past, and will continue to in the future.--gordonrox24 (talk) 15:36, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- So you think the consensus requiring reliable sourcing will change? Or you think the consensus determining what reliable sources are will change? Oh well. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 16:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Consensus about this article.--gordonrox24 (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Allow recreation I think there are multiple reliable sources there. The newest, Commonsense media also appears to be the best. Midweek looks okay while the examiner I'm less sure of, but I think there is enough demonstrated oversight to be on the edge of acceptable. A general websearch turns up tons of non-RS reviews. I think it passes WP:N, even if just by a small bit. Hobit (talk) 21:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted, those are the same sources that were debunked at the last round of DRV.
talk) 10:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC) [reply ]
- One new source, which looks good actually. In the last DrV midweek was viewed as a RS by the person who made the first argument that everyone cited/used. I think we've met WP:N now. Hobit (talk) 17:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I think what they said was a bit more nuanced than that : This source is an opinion piece, which are certainly considered reliable for confirming that a particular person holds a particular opinion, but it's being used in the article to verify a piece of factual information.. i.e. they said it would be reliable in some circumstances, but not the one it was being used in. What isn't really addressed is it's reliability from the perspective of notability. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 18:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- And I don't think everyone followed with that view, Stifle actually did his own analysis and concluded differently. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 18:50, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You are correct on Stifle's analysis, I had thought it was part of the above content. That said, the first editor said "This source is an opinion piece, which are certainly considered reliable for confirming that a particular person holds a particular opinion, but it's being used in the article to verify a piece of factual information." As WP:N has no objection to opinion pieces and we use reviews all the time for games, books, etc., I'm not seeing a reason why this doesn't contribute to notability. Hobit (talk) 19:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You may be correct, my observation was that I didn't see anyone comment directly on that aspect one way or other. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 19:48, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- List at Afd The I was going to close this DRV myself as "no consensus to undelete", but after reading the arguments above I think that the proper forum to determine notability is Afd, not DRV. So, the current userspace version should be moved to mainspace, and immediately submitted to AFD. If it is deleted at Afd, then immediately re-]
- Given the lack of participation here that would probably result in no consensus, I support that plan. Hobit (talk) 15:34, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I only have one worry about that plan. At AFD will people show more prejudice about articles? I am sure if what was decided here is explain at AFD it would be alright. I would support that idea, I will get User:Briguy9876 to comment here about that idea if I can. Thanks!--gordonrox24 (talk) 20:03, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- To me, it really seems like a "Test run" for the article. I am all for it, and I am really willing to see if anyone will try to add any more sources for the few couple of days it is up. --Briguy9876 (talk) 20:55, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- DRV isn't a soft way to avoid AFD scrutiny. Even if the result here is to allow recreation it isn't a set in stone decision that an article is allowed in some way, anyone would be free to list it for deletion tomorrow. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 06:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I really don't understand what you are getting at. I just said that I agree to that idea, yet you still find ways to tear apart my statement. When I am done with this DRV and no longer have to deal with your comments I will be very happy.--gordonrox24 (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You stated "I only have one worry about that plan. At AFD will people show more prejudice about articles? I am sure if what was decided here is explain at AFD it would be alright" there is no tearing your statement apart, it's a simple and direct response to it. I am and have been trying to indicate problems and issues to you which would be best addressed, that you choose to read them all as a negatives is actually disappointing. e.g. the use of low quality/poor sources is actually detrimental to an article, merely having a high count of references isn't helpful, it's the quality of the references. In this instance I don't want you to be disappointed to find that (i) a restoration here doesn't protect it from future deletion and (ii) that result of the deletion review will be pretty irrelevant for any such debate, an explanation of what was said here is unlikely to sway the discussion one way or other, people will evaluate it on the same basic terms --Contributions/82.7.40.7 (talk) 12:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You talk like I am stupid. I have a lot of experience working with AFD and know exactly how it works. You are tearing my statement apart. AFD is harsher then DRV, plain an simple.
I have no problem with doing this, I don't even see why your comment was necessary.--gordonrox24 (talk) 16:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Again I am not tearing your statement apart, nor am I talking to you if you are stupid. If it comes across that way, then I apologise, but it certainly isn't my intent. --Contributions/82.7.40.7 (talk) 16:58, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Is there anybody against this? If not I will close it and get an admin to help me reinstate the article, then I will list it at AFD.--gordonrox24 (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Don't close this yourself. Wait for another admin to come through and close it, and that admin will take care of the mechanics. Even for admins (especially for admins, actually), it's highly recommended that you don't close discussions in which you've participated.--Aervanath (talk) 19:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Yep I know. Thanks. I will place an {{adminhelp}} tag on my talk page and see if anybody is free to help.--gordonrox24 (talk) 19:23, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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