Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Open Arms (SZA song)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 4 October 2023 [1].

Open Arms (SZA song)

Nominator(s):

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 13:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

• The song begins with a voice clip of Norma Rowe—SZA's grandmother... - instead of a dash, I think using a comma would be better, something like "The song begins with a voice clip of Norma Rowe, who is SZA's..."
  • Fair, but I'd leave out "who is" for concisions
• Like Scott, Rowe's vocals prominently featured in Ctrl; - add "are" before prominently
  • Not done; the sentence is in the past tense to signify Rowe's history of having her voice in SZA's songs
• Wl foil
  • Done
• A solo version of "Open Arms"... - are there multiple solo versions? Otherwise, use "the" instead of "a".
  • It is entirely within the realm of possibility that SZA recorded several demos/takes of the song that would become "Open Arms", and those technically count as versions . the use of the "a" article instead of "the" is to lean on the safe side and accountfor that possibility
• Note 5 could just be replaced with the Atwood Magazine ref, and include the quote in the quote parameter
• No citations in the "Credits" section? I'd imagine something similar to the short sentence in Title (song)#Credits and personnel
  • There is now !

Earwig shows no violations, and the sources look reliable and correctly formatted. Very nice work,

Thank you for stopping by and reviewing one of my articles, @

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 09:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Support. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47

• For the lead, I would shorten sentimental ballad to ballad as that is the more common wordage used.
  • Shortened
• I think this part, (with lyrics about realizing to leave a former partner to whom the other person has been devoted because it has become harmful for their self-esteem), would improve from further revision as I find that it reads rather awkwardly.
  • Point taken
• I have a suggestion for the last two sentences of the lead's first paragraph. I think it would be better to combine the part about this being the only SOS track with SZA's grandmother with the sentence on her vocals on CTRL as that would make the significance more obvious.
  • Done !
• Why not present Ctrl as CTRL? From my understanding, it is presented in all caps and it would match SOS.
  • Most sources do not spell the title in all caps; Ctrl is a play on the "ctrl" keyboard on many PCs, which is itself usually spelled not in all caps
    • That makes sense to me. For whatever reason, I had thought the album used all-caps, but thank you for correcting me about this.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• I have a comment for this sentence: ("Open Arms" marks Scott and SZA's fourth collaboration—a previous one was "Love Galore" (2017), the second single from Ctrl.) Why only list one of the four collaborations? It puts in my opinion undue weight on one of the four songs so I would either list all four or just say they had four collaborations without listing any. I am leaning toward the latter as the former could be very wordy.
• For this part, (Many contemporary critics focused on), I would just say critics. It is unnecessary to qualify what type of critics as there is not any other type of reception to confuse it with (i.e. like retrospective reviews).
  • Excised, for both
• I think the ballad link should be moved up to this part, (a balladic, soft, or heartfelt sound), since it comes first in the article.
  • Removed the part you mentioned; the link would be kept
• I have a clarification question about this sentence: (Apart from the "traditional" R&B that had been a staple of SZA's past works, many tracks had a balladic, soft, or heartfelt sound.) It implies a division between "traditional" R&B and music with balladic, soft, heartfelt sound, when I think songs can be both. I am just not fully grasping the contrast here. Maybe attributing who is saying this would be clearer and tie it less to Wikipedia's voice and to a person's opinion.
  • no RS says "Open Arms" is R&B, so i thought in my head maybe i should contrast the two sounds in discussion to prepare viewers for how "Open Arms" would be sonically , but u make a good point that the two arent mutually exclusive . perhaps "acoustic vs. R&B" is a better contrast to make
    • Thank you for correcting this point. It looks a lot better in my opinion.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• For this part, (collaborated a few times beforehand), use the exact number of collaborations they have done as it is known.
• When discussing "Ok Alright", I would clarify that it appears on Rodeo. It is the only one of the collaborations listed that is not attributed to an album, and it would help readers like myself who are unfamiliar with either artist to find out more context on this particular song.
  • Done both
• For the images in the "Lyrics" section, I would clarify in the photo captions the year the images were taken.
  • I feel like writing (left, 2017) or (right, 2019) would be too clunky from a reader perspective
    • I disagree to be honest, but I will leave that up to the image reviewer. Adding in the year would only help readers as it is unclear in the current format if the photos were taken around the time the song was recorded/released or much earlier. I think that kind of context is valuable to readers.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      • Seems like Nikki, the media reviewer below, took no issue with it .
• I have a question about point of view character. Would it be possible to simplify that to narrator?
  • Good thinking . that definitely couldve been more concisely put
• Would a link to ride-or-die chick for "ride-or-die" be beneficial? I could see some readers not fully understanding it.
  • definitely ! I had the same instinct with "backshots"
• The article says that Scott was the focus of critical reviews, and I was just curious if any reviews talked about SZA at all?
  • technically ? No doubt people will comment on her contributions, such as her voice—it is her song after all—but from what I understand, more critics, as cited in the article, prioritised Scott
    • That makes sense to me. Thank you for the explanation.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• I am uncertain of the relevance of the Midnights paragraph. To be clear, I am not saying to delete it or anything. I just do not fully see the connection between this song and the bonus material released to seemingly compete with Midnights, particularly when the Uproxx article names the other song ("PSA") in its headline over the solo version of this song. Again, not asking you to remove it, but I wanted to get more of your opinion on its inclusion here.
  • I believe it sets the scene for why the solo version of "Open Arms" got an official release in the first place . Saying it was included as part of an album edition with bonus tracks is one thing , and i would have left it at that in the article if that was the case! however , considering the web-exclusive was a surprise release and, despite its bonus tracks, decidedly not the deluxe version that SZA would tease later, there has to be something more to the situation . Thus it feels worth mentioning IMO that the "Open Arms" solo version was released alongside "PSA" to compete with Midnights sales as per Rolling Stone . As you might know these kinds of tactics happen all the time in the music industry (e.g. when Swift released "Anti-Hero" remixes right as Drake's "Rich Flex" was predicted to go #1, making it debut at #2 instead) ; that RS came to this conclusion is not surprising . Sorry for the long ramble—the issue is more nuanced than it seems at first glance, so I feel it warranted a response that lived up to that!
    • No need to apologize. I appreciate it and that clarifies things further for me. That makes complete sense to me. Thank you for taking the time to explain this matter.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• Elements from the "Credits" section should be represented in the prose as well. For instance, the studios are not mentioned in the prose and individuals like Dale Becker and Katie Harvey are not mentioned in the prose either.
  • Done
    • Thank you. Unless I am being dense and just missing it, I do not think the article actually explicitly says who wrote the song in the prose. This should be my only point. Once this is addressed, I will be more than happy to support the FAC based on the prose.
      Aoba47 (talk) 17:39, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      • Not a dense observation at all; forgot to include it. Should be there now @
        Will you call me?"
        _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 09:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
        ]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 11:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Thank you for addressing everything. I support this FAC for promotion based on the prose.

Aoba47 (talk) 15:01, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

• Did you consider including a
  sample? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 11:57, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Okay - would suggest expanding the fair-use rationale a bit. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 09:39, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Hey there! Really great to see you in another FAC again ^_^ I'm gonna do some prose checks, then maybe a source review if no one would step in. GeraldWL 05:06, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Apologies for the long wait! Was just recently able to take a look back at this. Also don't be sorry, I totally understand the situation! It's always okay to take indefinite breaks or retire from WP, you don't owe your daily presence to the world. Take care :) GeraldWL 03:50, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, so so much . i have a lot more to say about how grateful I am but let me restrain myself before I get too sentimental . Your review is immsensely valued .
    Will you call me?"
    _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 01:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Reviewing this version, spot-check only upon request and usual caveat about me not knowing the topic that much. What makes okayplayer and thelineofbestfit a reliable source? Source information and formatting seem to be consistent. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 01:35, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

'fraid a spotcheck will have to wait until tomorrow. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spotcheck

Of this URL:

• 1: Not much from this source in the article.
• 4: Don't think that this specifically references "open arms" or says that the guitar was "finger-picked". In the source the quote says "favourite" not "favorite". The second footnote does not seem to draw much information from here, either.

  Not nominator here, but per the source "Travis Scott delivers an uncharacteristically – but brilliant – gentle verse on the finger-picked ‘Open Arms’"-- it explicitly states the track's name, and there's pretty much only one type of "finger picked". Changed favorite per

  WP:ARTCON. GeraldWL 04:11, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• 5: OKish.
• 6: Not much from this source in the article.
• 7: Not much from this source in the article.
• 8: OK.
• 10: OK.
• 21: Can't access this source.

  OK for the first sentence, after a check through the archive. I don't think the second sentence is explicitly stated? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 00:45, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  Is it just me, or does the current version have that same Vulture source not say much about Scott? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:26, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 14:41, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  So, there it's supposed to support the "featured artist"? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:22, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Well yes

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 00:07, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  OK, that works. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks @

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 12:48, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  There are some additional sources that I don't have access to, but which need checking. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:49, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  @

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 12:58, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• 23: Where does it say it was a single?

  Suggest changing to this. - GWL

  Found a better source, which is already used in the article - Elias

• 25: Where does it say that "open arms" was first?

  Earlier the article establishes that "Low" and "Open Arms" were the two collaborations, and the only two released collaborations, between SZA and Scott on the album. I doubt the cited Rolling Stone article has to explicitly say the claim you mentioned—the inference can be made from the article's "final track, 'Low'" quotation. Methinks this might be a nitpick.

  Will you call me?"
  _{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 05:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• 27: OK.
• 28: OK but see my comments on #4
  • Per the credits, the only string instrument used on the song is a guitar, so the "finger-picked" instrument has to be it - Elias
• 29: I don't see "center piece" nor "soft" nor "register"

  As a note, I see "On “Open Arms,” Travis Scott takes the ballad’s low-voiced center." - GWL

• 30: Can't access this source.

  OK. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• 32: Is "autotuned" in the source the same as "Auto-Tune" on Wikipedia?

  It can be assumed so, rarely do people actually spell it out properly "Auto-Tune", "autotuned" is the more popular wording. - GWL

  Yes - Elias

• 34: OK.
• 41: OK.
• 46: Can't access this source.
• 49: Doesn't say "debut"

  I notice that the first paragraph somewhat hints a debut "And that’s translating to the live stage, too." With it being the first live performance of the entire album it's safe to assume it's also Open Arms' debut. But perhaps a source explicitly mentioning so will help. - GWL

  ^^^^ - Elias

• 54: I am not sure this specifies that the edition can be bought only on that website, nor the properties of the edition.

  forgot to address this one - I've trimmed this to "available on Top Dawg..."

Quite some deviations from the sources, but since this isn't a topic I know well I'll see what the nominators/others have to say. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:28, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Replies have been made. Thanks to @

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 05:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 00:22, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

I'd like to ask for copies of the sources I called "inaccessible", if possible. Say per email, I'd like to verify these as well. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 23:12, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

Hi Jo-Jo, what's the state of play with this one? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:11, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Need the source enumerated under #46 Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:16, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your Power ? Gog the Mild (talk) 12:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

@

Will you call me?"
_{📝 "Will you hang me out to dry?"} 07:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply

]

If you are suggesting that the change you have already made may be sufficient, you need to ping Jo-Jo. They are the source reviewer. If you are still searching and failing, you need to consider alternatives, this is dragging on a bit now. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have emailed ARIA to see if they're kind enough to provide an excerpt of the thing. GeraldWL 04:09, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jo-Jo Eumerus, I just received an email from ARIA providing an excerpt of the cited page to confirm the info. I extracted it to Google Docs: here. GeraldWL 04:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also pinging @WP:FAC coordinators: since this should solve everything and an easy pass. GeraldWL 06:23, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, this is a pass on my end, then. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:29, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing note: This
  WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:48, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply
  ]