Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/WestJet Encore/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 03:12, 29 April 2018 [1].

WestJet Encore

Nominator(s): Vanguard10 (talk) 00:55, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the WestJet regional airline. WestJet is the second largest Canadian airline brand. Airline articles are reasonably popular, based on edits. This article is particularly compliant with guidelines, unlike some other airline articles. As such, it could be a model of how to improve other airline articles if it is a FA. Thank you for your kind consideration and comments... Vanguard10 (talk) 00:55, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from EricEnfermero

I think it's evident that a lot of work has been done on this entry's references, but I don't think that the prose is up to FA standards and I'm wondering if a GOCE copyedit might help. Here are a few examples:

  • In the History section, the "Lack of turboprop aircraft..." sentence is written in passive voice and it reads a little rough.
  • "The ATR-72-600 had been considered, being offered at a lower..." - I think you're saying that this one was less expensive but it's wordy.
  • "WestJet Encore was to start separate routes..." - I think this one needs to be broken into two sentences.
  • "In 2015, WestJet Encore was the fastest-growing..." - You have two verb tenses (was/is) in this sentence. Does the first part refer to 2015 while the second part refers to the present?
  • "teal-and blue-geometric" - If I understand correctly, there should be a hyphen after and and not after blue.
  • "the management initiated WestJet Pilots Association, a subgroup of the WestJet Proactive Management Team, ratified contracts..." - I feel like there is a missing word here.
  • You mention Jazz in this paragraph, but unless the reader checks the cited source, it's unclear what that is. There's a grammar error as well ("unlike Jazz, who do not...)
  • "being characterized by the Calgary Airport Authority CEO as 'the new terminal is long on aesthetics and short on functionality'" - this leaves a sentence fragment by itself after a semicolon.
  • "from 2016-2019" - generally we use "from... to" and don't mix from with a dash.
  • There are a few missing hyphens - i.e., two kilometer walk.
  • "WestJet Encore services two destinations outside of Canada, Boston and Nashville." - At first I read this as meaning that they go Canada, Boston, Nashville and two other destinations.
  • "WestJet Encore aircraft has a Plus section, which consists no change fees..." - consists of

I think there's probably more, which is why I wonder if GOCE might be helpful.

Talk) 02:33, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

Thank you for your detailed comments. I have made corrections to address all of the above issues as well as improved the prose in many other areas. Vanguard10 (talk) 19:19, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47

  • I would add ALT text for the logo in the infobox.
  • For this sentence (It is owned by WestJet Airlines, Ltd. which also owns WestJet Airlines.), I would avoid the repetition of the word “own”.
  • Make sure all of the images in the body of the article have ALT text.
  • In the “History” section, I would move the image down to be by the second paragraph. That paragraph is the one that really talks about that particular type of plane, and it would avoid having the infobox push the image down in an awkward way.
  • I am not familiar with this subject matter at all so I apologize in advance, but I am a little confused by the structure of the “History” section, particularly the opening two paragraphs. It is not until the third paragraph that you mention WestJet Encore by name, and I was lost when reading the first two paragraph. I understand that these paragraphs are important, but is there a way to make it clearer that these paragraphs are about the conditions that set up the creation of this airline? I hope that makes sense.
  • For this sentence (Nashville was added the following year.), do you think that you should put the airport in Nashville rather than just the city (only if it is included in the source cited of course).
  • For this part (a $2 billion, 2 million square foot international terminal), 2 should be spelled out as “two”.
  • I would add a citation for this part of the sentence (for U.S. cross border and international flights opened at Calgary International Airport, the largest hub of WestJet Encore and its affiliate WestJet. Despite consultation with the airlines, the terminal design proved problematic.) to make it clear what reference is being used to support this information.
  • The lead seems rather short, and does not appear to include much information from the “History” section.
  • This ( or, until July 31, 2018, American Airlines AAdvantage.) needs to be cited.
  • In the “Cabins and services” section, I am confused about the Plus section. You say that it “does not have increased legroom or space”. Is the plus section then just a portion of the seating that is closer to the cabin? Are there any advantages/reasons to book a seat in the Plus section?
  • I would revise this sentence (In 2017, McDonald's McCafe coffee service was announced.) to (In 2017, flights began to offer McDonald's McCafe coffee service). The “was announced” structure of the original sentence is slightly awkward and opens the question of who announced this in particular?
  • I would simplify this (altering taste bud sensation) down to (altering taste buds).
  • Something seems to be wrong with Reference 39. The bare URL is showing up in the “References” section.

Good work with this article. I admit that I am not familiar at all with the subject matter, and I have never worked on this type of article before so I apologize if I miss anything. Once my comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this for promotion. Have a wonderful rest of your week!

Aoba47 (talk) 17:00, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

Thank you for your constructive comments. I have addressed every point noted. I have also made some improvements, small in byte size, but to improve the flow, make it understandable to both the airline enthusiast and general public. I have also tried to meet the definition of FA, which is the finest work in Wikipedia. In comparison to some airline articles, I have tried to avoid making the WestJet Encore article an advertisement.Vanguard10 (talk) 04:05, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for addressing everything. I support this for promotion.
    Aoba47 (talk) 02:20, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Sources review

Comments from the first 25 references:

  • Ref 4: I think "ATW" means "Air Transport World", not "Air Transport Weekly"
  • Ref 5: Reuters should not be italicised. Use "publisher=" not "work="
  • Ref 6: Conversley, The Globe and Mail should be italicised, and needs "work="
  • Ref 13: Same point re Mississauga News
  • Ref 14: Same point re Financial Post
  • Ref 21: ...and re Toronto Star
  • Ref 24: ...and re Calgary Herald

As you can see, there are recurring errors over the question of italicisation, and I'd be graeful if you would work through the rest and make any necessary adjustments. Call me when you've done, preferably by a brief talkpage message, as my ping messages tend to disappear and then I told I'm rude for ignoring them! Brianboulton (talk) 17:41, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comment. This was a systems problem from using the citations template. I did not know that "The Globe and Mail" was a work and not a publisher. When entered as a publisher, there are no italics. When entered as a work, there are italics. It should be The Globe and Mail. Vanguard10 (talk) 02:44, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
it's quite common with well-known publications to treat the title as the publisher and use the work field to ensure italicisation. Brianboulton (talk) 20:25, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've completed my review:

  • There are still a couple of print sources not italicised: see refs 21, 25.
  • There are quite a lot of italicised non-print sources. The ones that concern me are refs 28, 31, 33, 34, 42, 45, 49, 50, 54, 59, 60, 61, 64, 66, 67, 70. I believe that in these instances you are using either work= or website= when you should be using publisher=. The website= field should not be used without also publisher=, because the website is the thing being published, not the publisher. My advice is to change all of these to publisher= and forget about website=.
  • In ref 41 the publisher is WestJet, not WestJet.com; likewise, in 52 the publisher is MRO Network.
  • There are a few nomenclature inconsistencies: you have "Global News" and "Global News (Canada)"; WestJet" and "Westjet"; "Cision" and "Cision PR Newswire" (there is actually a WP article for Cision that you can link to).
  • Ref 65 is confusingly presented. American Airlines is the publisher, the correct title seems to be "WestJet partnership ending". You don't need aa.com, but you do need a retrieval date.

I'm sorry to be asking you weed the garden again, but try and think of it as a hot day with a beer waiting in the fridge. Let me know when you're done. Brianboulton (talk) 20:25, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your comments. Especially helpful is your explanation that "publisher= " in the citation template should used rather than "website= " in order not to get improper use of italics. One reference I did not change is 34, which is a name of a small town newspaper, Powell River Peak. It should be in italics, just like the Calgary Herald or New York Times. Vanguard10 (talk) 22:11, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ssven2

  • Wikilink both "McDonalds" and "McCafe" in the lead.
  • "Having more flights on a route than a competitor is a competitive advantage." — According to who? and how so? elaborate on this.
  • "The WestJet Encore fleet of Q400s expanded to 18 aircrafts by March 2015, and later to 34 aircraft by December 2016 and to 43 aircraft by December 2017." — You can reword this like "The WestJet Encore fleet of Q400s was expanded to 18 aircrafts by March 2015, and later to 34 and 43 aircrafts by December 2016 and December 2017 respectively."

That's about it from me, Vanguard10. Quite an offbeat article from those I usually work on. A keener pair of eyes can go through more than what I have. Address these comments and you have my support.  — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 16:03, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. 1. I have made the correction. 2. Having more flights being a competitive advantage is a well known principle and not disputed. I have added another reference, a book, so that the sentence has two citations. 3. You kindly made the third suggestion and edited the article - thank you. Vanguard10 (talk) 03:29, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose.  — Ssven2 Looking at you, kid 08:03, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Acefitt

How necessary is the paragraph about the new terminal? Not once has an Encore plane bridged over there, nor has WestJet announced any plan to fly Encore from there. It really has nothing to do with Encore. --

Acefitt 03:45, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

True, but I have done some original research and have been told that WestJet Encore was and is considering cross-border flights but is discouraged by the international terminal. To comply with Wikipedia's original research prohibition, I cannot write about things that I know but are not in print. The international terminal mention is not critical to the Wikipedia article but is there for this reason. There are reliable sources attesting that Calgary is a WestJet Encore hub and pilot base.
I might also add that 50% of WestJet Encore traffic is connecting traffic (mentioned in the Wikipedia article along with a citation) of which some, mostly WestJet flights, are international flights. This causes a problem for WestJet Encore. Vanguard10 (talk) 03:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Is "transborder" to be hyphenated? I have never seen that word hyphenated before. --
Acefitt 14:24, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
]
There is a hyphen according to the Calgary Herald. See http://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/westjet-ceo-blasts-new-terminal-at-yyc-says-airport-authority-hasnt-listened-to-concerns (6th paragraph). If you support this FAC, thank you. If not, I am happy to strongly consider your suggestions and implement them, if possible. Vanguard10 (talk) 03:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
She uses it, but Air Canada doesn't, WestJet (subject of the article) doesn't, YYC doesn't, YVR doesn't, and other Canadian journalists appear to not be using it. Not a big deal, I support the article. --
Acefitt 04:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply
]

Image review

OKish ALT text. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The logo is used by both WestJet and WestJet Encore. It may be somewhat similar to the logo of Royal Dutch Shell plc (incorporated in the UK, headquartered in the Netherlands) and the logo of Shell Oil Company (headquartered in Houston, TX, USA). However, I like the purity of an article with no fair use and only free use so I am removing the logo image. Vanguard10 (talk) 03:08, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Nick-D

I expressed concerns that the fact used in this article's recent DYK was misleading at

WP:ERRORS
during its run, so would like to take the opportunity to review the whole article. As a starting comment, the thought of flying Canadian distances in a Bombardier Q400 is horrifying - I've endured these planes many times on relatively short flights by Australian standards (with Australian planes being pretty comfortable compared to North American planes), and longer trips with worse service sound awful!

  • "The airline was formed to allow increased frequency of flights by using smaller aircraft as well as start service to routes with less traffic." - this makes it sound like it was established as a public service: presumably WestJet saw this as a market opportunity.
  • "The airline is a low cost carrier." - already stated. I'd suggest dropping the first mention as this is then discussed throughout this para
  • "it was operated with non-union employees but union drives began starting with the pilots joining a labour union." - repeditive
  • "An airline variant of McDonald's McCafé was later introduced" - what it is 'later' after isn't clear
  • I'd suggest providing some background in the 'Market conditions leading to the formation of WestJet Encore (2005-2013)' section on why WestJet was at the point of saturating the market (assume that readers, such as me, have only barely heard of WestJet!)
  • "WestJet Encore's service was initially limited to Western Canada, but it opened service in the eastern part of the country in June 2014 with a route from Toronto to Thunder Bay, Ontario" - is this when it also established the pilot base in Toronto?
  • "WestJet Encore moved into the international market in 2016, with flights serving Boston Logan Airport;[21][22] Nashville International Airport was added the following year" - where do these flights originate from? (Toronto I presume?)
  • "WestJet Encore flies Q400 NextGen on regional flights up to 700 nautical miles, including both direct regional flights and connecting flights" - this seems a bit out of place given that the airline's fleet and routes are described in the earlier paras. The limitation on how far it takes these planes seems worth noting.
  • "In 2015, WestJet Encore was the fastest-growing operator of Q400 aircraft" - is this really very significant? It just means that it had a lot of the things scheduled for delivery that year.
  • "Pilots are guaranteed an eventual higher paying position flying larger jets at WestJet" - presumably this is dependent on satisfactory service, as well as time served?
  • " WestJet Encore and its flight attendants reached an agreement " - was this also a union agreement? - it's unclear from the next sentence (which implies it was not)
  • "The first president of WestJet Encore was Ferio Pugliese, who retained his title of Executive Vice President at WestJet Airlines, Ltd. He was hired in November 2012 coming from WestJet, " - this is confusing and repetitive: was he or was he not still a WestJet employee?
  • I note that the current president also holds a position at WestJet: presumably this is a standing arrangement?
  • "He left to become an Executive Vice President at Hydro One Ltd" - when did he leave?
  • "Some routes are increased frequencies on existing routes, such as between Calgary and Saskatoon." - also unclear (were these increased frequencies on existing WestJet routes?)
  • " To prevent freezing of water lines during overnight stays at airports with cold weather, the airline rendered the water flow to the lavatory basins inoperative in 2013" - the issue I raised at WP:ERRORS was whether this fault has since been fixed (noting that the 2013 reference said that work was underway to fix it)
  • "EFB and ICAS could determine whether or not objective thresholds were exceeded resulting four hours of maintenance and inspection instead of previously having pilots subjectively characterize the level of turbulence, which would automatically result in maintenance and inspection" - complex and unclear (and the grammar looks a bit off?)
  • What does a WestJet Dollar buy you? Is this a 1-for-1 discount on future flights? - or the usual airline arrangement where you need several zillion points to get anything useful?
  • "WestJet also participates in WestJet Rewards" - seems a bit obvious? I'd suggest tweaking this para to state that this company doesn't have its own rewards scheme, but uses that of its parent company.
  • "WestJet Encore flights are ground loaded" - I'm not sure what this means.
  • "The Q400 NextGen aircraft have large overhead lockers in the cabin allowing for larger luggage to be brought aboard." - larger than what? (the usual carry on bag size allowed on aircraft?)
  • "Food is available for purchase but beverages are served free" - the bit about beverages being free doesn't seem to be referenced in the body of the article?
  • What kind of assessments has this airline attracted from professional reviewers and the various airline ratings?
  • Has the airline been involved in any noteworthy operational incidents? Nick-D (talk) 10:27, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

- - -

Thank you for your comments, which are of a different type than other comments. This is useful and not a criticism. I have addressed and modified the article for most of the points raised and have further explanations below.
  • "WestJet Encore's service was initially limited to Western Canada, but it opened service in the eastern part of the country in June 2014 with a route from Toronto to Thunder Bay, Ontario" - is this when it also established the pilot base in Toronto?
I cannot confirm nor deny that the Toronto pilot base was established when the first Toronto flight started. With the mainline WestJet Airlines, they started Toronto flights while they only had a Calgary pilot base, which was very awkward from an operational standpoint.
  • "WestJet Encore moved into the international market in 2016, with flights serving Boston Logan Airport;[21][22] Nashville International Airport was added the following year" - where do these flights originate from? (Toronto I presume?)
WikiProject Airlines discourages listing too many routes. Nashville-Toronto is the only WestJet Encore route but there are several routes from Boston.
Seems like something worth noting to me. Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 2015, WestJet Encore was the fastest-growing operator of Q400 aircraft" - is this really very significant? It just means that it had a lot of the things scheduled for delivery that year.
This appears to be significant enough to be cited by the manufacturer.
The source seems to be a press release from the airline. I'd suggest removing this. Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Pilots are guaranteed an eventual higher paying position flying larger jets at WestJet" - presumably this is dependent on satisfactory service, as well as time served?
I cannot find any references about the promotion criteria. Looking at a random selection of 27 airline articles, I find none of them describe the promotion criteria for pilots.
I'm not asking for the promotion criteria. It's unlikely that pilots are "guaranteed" promotions as long as they don't quit (especially by an anti-union employer). Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I note that the current president also holds a position at WestJet: presumably this is a standing arrangement?
I cannot confirm or deny that it is a standing agreement nor have I seen their employment contracts. There have been two WestJet Encore Presidents. Both have concurrently been Vice Presidents at WestJet.
I'd suggest noting that both presidents held the role then. Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • " To prevent freezing of water lines during overnight stays at airports with cold weather, the airline rendered the water flow to the lavatory basins inoperative in 2013" - the issue I raised at WP:ERRORS was whether this fault has since been fixed (noting that the 2013 reference said that work was underway to fix it)
From original research, I have information that there is no running water as of December 2017.
OK Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • What kind of assessments has this airline attracted from professional reviewers and the various airline ratings?
Many, including me, do not believe in airline ratings. The best and middle of the pack are often similar. That said, WestJet Encore does not have a reputation as a bad airline for passengers nor does it have a famous reputation, like Singapore Airlines. Skytrax, a common rater, does not rate WestJet Encore.
No professional reviews at all? Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Has the airline been involved in any noteworthy operational incidents?
Yes, two flight attendants were injured due to turbulence. This was not included because of guidelines from WikiProject Airlines, which emphasize severe damage (hull loss) of aircraft or deaths. Another flight had visible smoke in the cabin.

Vanguard10 (talk) 03:56, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some extra comments:

  • " Plus section seating and frequent flyer programme participation is offered." - many readers won't know what "plus section seating" is, and does the existence of a frequent flyer program need to be noted in the lead given that this is standard for airlines?
  • " After internal marketing studies about future growth were initiated, WestJet Encore was formed..." - unclear. Presumably it was formed as a result of the results of this analysis.
  • "If such thresholds were not exceeded, four hours of maintenance and inspection would be prevented compared to previously having pilots subjectively characterize the level of turbulence." - still unclear and a bit wordy
  • "The Q400 NextGen aircraft have larger overhead lockers in the cabin than previous versions of the Q400 allowing for larger luggage to be brought aboard" - but the airline hasn't used other versions of the Q400? I'd suggest deleting this.
  • A map showing the locations served by the airline would be useful, and fairly easy to create (the map at [2] could easily be adapted). This would help to give the article a bit of the 'wow' factor expected for FAs. Nick-D (talk) 01:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your additional comments. I have made corrections to all, except the last suggestion. For the first comment, I've removed mention of the Plus Section seating in the lede because the Plus Section is really a joke airline tactic. The seat is the same. The leg room is the same. There are just some relaxed ticketing rules. The frequent flyer mention is, however, even more noteworthy than I originally thought and revised it. Most airlines require a zillion points for a free ticket. WestJet Rewards is different. You can redeem an award for as little as $15 off. That might mean that you can redeem an award after as little as two round trip flights, albeit $15 off being a small discount. As far as the map, I am uncertain whether creating such a map exceeds the original research prohibition in Wikipedia. The link provided is helpful but it is outdated. Nashville-Toronto is still operated, according to Expedia.com booking tool, but Nashville isn't shown on that WestJet link. If I try to create some lines indicating routes, I would not be using any published source but rather creating it from looking up Expedia or Orbitz or Travelocity websites used for buying airplane tickets. Seems like original research to me.
Most routes are those that include the hubs, such as Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, and Halifax as either the origin or destination. However, there are a few thin (low traffic) routes such as Fort McMurray, Alberta to Kelowna, British Columbia that don't seem to make any sense except that WestJet Encore probably discovered that there are people that want to travel between those cities. Not enough for a Boeing 737 but enough for a Bombardier Q400 NextGen. Vanguard10 (talk) 20:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looking it up, I see that the Kelowna-Fort McMurray flight was discontinued after two years of operation. I did add the fact to the destinations section due to the oddity of the route. Vanguard10 (talk) 20:21, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that a map referenced to the company's website and other reliable sources (the major booking websites seem great sources for what airline flies where) would be original research. Nick-D (talk) 09:16, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done and not a non-free use image! Vanguard10 (talk) 04:13, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest swapping to either a map of North America, or leaving the US cities out and noting them in the caption. The red dots in the caption aren't a good look ;) Given that this will change regularly, having an 'As of' date would also be helpful. Nick-D (talk) 07:58, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that map isn't rendering properly at all. I question why it's even necessary... --
Acefitt 14:37, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply
]
The map is for, as Nick-D put it, for the wow factor! Another user took out the red dots for Nashville, TN, USA and Myrtle Beach, SC, USA. Those were the two dots in the captions. I considered a North American map but the problem is there is no USA+Canada map. If the whole of North America is used, all the dots in British Columbia and Alberta are squished together. The map is good to show that there aren't too many destinations in the middle of Canada (Saskatchewan, Manitoba, most of Ontario). Let's keep the map unless there is a desire to remove it. Vanguard10 (talk) 02:30, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think that my comments are now sufficiently addressed - nice work. I'd encourage you to keep an eye out for opportunities to expand and deepen the article as new sources become available. Nick-D (talk) 07:22, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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