Wikipedia:Featured article review/Taiwanese aborigines/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Dana boomer 04:12, 13 November 2010 [1].

Taiwanese aborigines

Review commentary

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Notified: Maowang, Ling.Nut, WikiProject Ethnic groups, WikiProject Taiwan

I am nominating this featured article for review because there are several dead links, including red links, and 1c issues. This article was promoted to FA status in 2007 and it hasn't been review since. JJ98 (talk) 05:33, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Fixing dead links is a trivial task.
  2. 1C issues? What does that mean? I don't think a better-researched document on this topic exists outside of Wikipedia. Even among FAs, this one is more than normally well-cited. I am perplexed. • 
    Ling.Nut 05:40, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
1C? It's very well researched, and well cited. I don't think there are any referencing concerns at all with this article. I'm reviewing redlinks and dead links to see what needs to be done on that score. Taiwantaffy (talk) 06:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've fixed most of the dead links already. I'm kinda shocked the Formosan Language Archive is a dead link. I wanna leave it alone for a couple days, to see if it is a temporary problem... I'm having problems finding Ho-hi-yan radio station info; does it still exist? I updated the population info to 2009 (was 2006). • 
    Ling.Nut 08:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Comment Regarding these issues:
  • I am also seeing dead links in the article:
Fixed Formosan language archives links. They must have moved things very recently. • 
Ling.Nut 12:22, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply
]

Comment - I've left notes on the talk pages of Malleus and Elcobbola for an image and prose check. Ling.Nut, I noted your comment on Jj98's page, and wanted to clarify that if an article is deemed "keep-worthy" in a short period of time, it doesn't have to be here for a month. That is only in the case of articles likely to be delisted, to give editors a long period of time to jump in and start fixing! If a good prose, reference and image check are done by a couple of uninvolved, experienced editors and they state here that the article should be kept then it can be off the page immediately. Dana boomer (talk) 10:26, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moving down for a conclusion YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 07:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FARC commentary

Featured article criterion of concern are sourcing, copyright, MOS YellowMonkey (new photo poll) 07:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply
]
  • Delist: Several criterion three concerns remain outstanding. Эlcobbola talk 15:24, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment These photo standards strongly reinforce the tendency toward systemic bias (and recentism as well, though to a considerably lesser degree), by placing undue burden on editors who wish to edit in topic areas other than those coming from the United States, Australia and England. To wit, these photos are PD. They were published before 1923 in another country (Japan). However, this kind of metadata is not considered valuable enough to store anywhere, at least not anywhere easily accessible. There is no source that says, "oh by the way, these photos were published in 1901 by the University's anthropology department, or as a part of a French-language monograph by
    Ling.Nut 01:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Lambanog, the reason this article hasn't been removed a long time ago is outstanding image concerns. Per Elcobbola's comments, it doesn't meet criteria 3 of the
    featured article criteria, hence it does not meet the standards needed for a featured article. The delegates do not write the criteria, we simply enforce them as they were written by the community - if you wish to change the standards, please go to the criteria page and start a discussion. Otherwise, the best way to get this article passed would either be to help Ling.Nut find verification on the images or find new images for the article. I do agree with Ling that this criteria makes it hard on writers who work on non-English, non-recent topics, but delegates cannot simply ignore the criteria because they don't like them in a certain situation. Dana boomer (talk) 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Image comments: I do not see the unstricken images above in the article, so I think those are resolved (by removal from article). However, I do have the following queries to make (not knowing if they had been reviewed previously).

  • File:Tsou youth of Taiwan (pre-1945).jpg
    One of the most wide-spread misconceptions I see on Wikipedia is thinking that creation is publication. The latter term involves making several copies of the work and distributing (either giving or selling) them to the public. Hence, I am hesitant about "collection of old photographs published before 1945 (author of photo unknown)". Publication claims should be backed by a source, or naming and giving details about the specific publication. The publication date thus becomes an issue; if the photograph was published in Taiwan before 1945, it falls under Japanese copyright law, which would make it public domain. However, if published later, it falls under the Chinese copyright law that gives 50 years of post-publication protection. Hence, if a pre-1945 photograph is first published in 1970, the protection is until 2021. That said, the image should be using a US tag (to denote copyright status in the US) and a country of origin tag (either PD-Japan-oldphoto or PD-China).
    I don't actually believe I can dance well enough to make this image acceptable. I didn't even believe it at the time that I added it to the template. Quite frankly, I do not believe there are any images at all in Commons that would meet even the loosest criteria of minimum acceptability to be placed atop this page which also happen to be in possession of the full array of metadata which would verify the (patently true) fact that it is PD. If you can see an image that works, then by all means throw it up on the board. • 
    Ling.Nut 09:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • File:Formosan Distribution en.png
    The base map (File:Tw-administration.jpg) of this chart is unsourced. We need to know whether that map is created from (or of) public domain material or sets of data (reference: commons:Commons:Image casebook#Maps and satellite images). I recommend using File:Taiwan location map.svg as a base map (NordNordWest is exemplary in making good-looking maps, which are compliant with policies and guidelines). There is also File:Map of Taiwan 1901.jpg available for use.
    Close inspection suggests that the base map of
    Ling.Nut 09:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    No, it is not. The JPG (which is of unknown origin) has more details to the coast line than the SVG (which is constructed from mapping data). Jappalang (talk) 04:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I can cobble up a new map based on the SVG, but what are the specifics for the distribution? "SA (Scientific American) Traditional Chinese version "Diversity of Taiwan" (科學人《多樣性台灣》)" is no help when no issue, article name, or page number is given. Jappalang (talk) 12:56, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I have replaced this map with File:General distribution of indigenous people in Taiwan.svg, which uses a compliant base map and has verifiable sources for the distribution. Jappalang (talk) 22:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Beijing-NiuJie-Hani-Gaoshan-Ewenki-3656.jpg
    This photograph would have unquestionably qualified for China's freedom of panorama if the name of the author and the title of the work are mentioned (应当指明作者姓名、作品名称). Who is the author and what is the (official) title of this work?
    I took that photo of the poster. The title is "The great united family of peoples" (民族团结大家庭, Minzu tuanjie da jiating), as the image's description indicate. I did not see the name of the author anywhere on the poster, and assume that s/he was an employee of [an agency of] China's People's Government, or an artist commissioned by the government. As to the licensing, I leave any possible improvements to those with better knowledge of such things. -- Vmenkov (talk) 16:29, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would be best to ask Jeremy Kemp to go back to the images he had uploaded and use the {{
    own work}} template on them (using {{Information
    }} template for a tidier look would do good as well). The current image pages give no trail (broken by the way they had been transferred) for re-users (who are not administrators of both servers) to verify the author and public domain tag.
    I'll see what I can do. • 
    Ling.Nut 09:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    Based on File:Taiwan nun.jpg, I am inclined to believe the PD tags for those photographs are correct. Although stricken, an administrator's help in chronicling the transfers (stating to the effect of what the original statements made on Wikipedia were) on those Commons pages would be better for the project in the long term. Jappalang (talk) 02:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some of these should be easy to resolve to keep their use in the article. Jappalang (talk) 03:06, 11 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Images okay. Jappalang (talk) 02:57, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the images have been OK'd. This edit by Jappalang has edit summary "images OK in my view". • 
    Ling.Nut (talk) 23:36, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply
    ]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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