Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Lapsed Pacifist

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In order to remain listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~~~~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was 9 July 2005 03:14 (UTC)), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is: 09:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC).

Statement of the dispute

This is a summary written by users who dispute this user's conduct. Users signing other sections should not edit here.

Description

Lapsed Pacifist insists on repeatedly adding various notable figures to the

List of Irish-Americans without citing sources or any evidence whatsoever that such individuals are of Irish heritage. Claimed "Irish-Americans" have variously included Eddie Murphy, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Jimi Hendrix, Alex Haley, Ishmael Reed, and Alice Walker
, none of whom are commonly known to claim Irish heritage.

Evidence of disputed behavior

Applicable policies and guidelines

  1. 3RR
  2. Cite sources
  3. Check your facts
  4. Verifiability

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

(sign with ~~~~)

  1. —chris.lawson (talk) 9 July 2005 03:14 (UTC)
  2. Jayjg (talk) 04:28, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Other users who endorse this summary

(sign with ~~~~)

  1. Not all information on Wikipedia has its sources cited, but all contested information should. The burden of proof concerning an African-American's Irishness is on the one making the assertion, and not those who dispute it. Ireland never had (any significant) slave labor, most African-Americans are descended from slaves who were given the same name as their slave owner, and the children of mixed (illegal slave and owner) relations were rarely ever allowed to take their white father's surname. Without sources, this is simply a question of
    Occam's Razor: to suggest that Murphy is most likely Irish because he has an Irish name is making too many unfounded assumptions. func(talk) 02:47, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  2. I have contributed a lot to the list, while Lapsed Pacifist has only sabotaged it. I have tried posting to him in disscussion, but he stopped responding. 64.109.253.204 04:40, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  3. He has been constantly pushing his POV across several pages, including
    1996_Manchester_City_Centre_bombing, amongst others. He does not show respect for other users or the very basis of neutral reporting. A brief look at his talk page will clearly indicate this disrespect. Nearside 02:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  4. LP has a history of inserting POV stuff about Ireland to articles. He has waged a one-man campaign to change the references to
    Unionist, either as an extraordinarily illinformed series of edits or more like to cause offence and provoke the other side. He has been the subject of edit wars, 3RR breaches, two bans, etc for his POV antics. In the past, after a period of NPOV editing, during which people presumed his POV antics were over, he would suddenly return to sneaking in POV additions. Irish users, both nationalist and unionist, have been appealing to him repeatedly to stop and be NPOV, but he still seems determined in various articles to plonk in POV edits, to the irritation of other Irish contributors who end up, over and over again, having to clean up the POV mess he leaves behind. After a couple of weeks of NPOV edits he has again returned to his POVing of article. In view of past behaviour the behaviour that is the cause of this RfC is unfortunately all too in character. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 17:41, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Response

This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.

Hello. When I first edited this article, there were no criteria for inclusion except the title,

List of Irish-Americans. I took this to mean a citizen of the United States of Irish descent. I went through the list and it seemed very monochrome, so I added Eddie Murphy, whom I believed to have at least some Irish ancestry. I am no longer convinced this is the case, though I remain open to correction on this (perhaps, in the light of this, User:Func will modify his endorsement, which concentrates solely on Murphy and ignores the other contentious entries). The anonymous user religiously reverted my changes and soon became abusive when I attempted to open a line of communication. Thereafter I refused to engage the user. However I made more entries, many of which (though not all) were immediately challenged. I found that, the darker an entry's skin color, the more likely that person's inclusion was likely to be blanked. User:Clawson entered the fray, immediately condemning my edits as "ridiculous", so I refused to engage with what I believed would be another user fond of insults. User: Clawson has since adopted a more placatory tone, unlike the anonymous user, whose behaviour has not changed. I engaged with User:Wikibofh and User:Jayjg
in an attempt to reach consensus, as they were civil from the outset.

As I believed (and still believe) that many of my entries were being challenged because they had some African ancestry, I refused to cite sources (with the exception of Muhammad Ali), as there were many people on the list with mixed ancestry who were not being challenged because (I believe) their other ancestry was European. To illustrate this point, the English actor Albert Finney, whom I listed by mistake, was not removed by either of the two users who were reverting my changes and stayed on the list unchallenged for perhaps a day or two (I believe he is the only entry I myself have removed).

Other entries of mine have been blanked, usually military or political figures from the

Protestants
of Irish descent.

I have some sources for my entries, but I have been reluctant to cite them given the lack of research of the other users, who, despite their many reverts, have not once cited a source that declared that any entry was categorically not of Irish descent. I hope this makes my position clearer.

Lapsed Pacifist 03:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

Outside view by McClenon

There is something strange about the timing of this RfC. It was first added to the Rfc article page as a candidate, and then promoted to a certified RfC, on 25 August 2005. It refers to conduct that happened in July 2005, most recently on 9 July 2005. The signatures on the RfC subpage are (properly) between 9 July 2005 and 11 July 2005.

The conduct in question appears to have stopped approximately six weeks before the link was posted on the main RfC page. Why is it being posted now? Robert McClenon 11:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

  1. Robert McClenon 11:15, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Comment -- I suspect what happened is the editors signing this RfC in the last few days found my old RfC and simply added to it, rather than writing their own.—chris.lawson (talk) 15:28, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Comment -- If this is the case, then I apologize. I plead a lack of understanding of the reporting process. Nearside 15:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Outside view - McGann

I have had my differences with Lapsed Pacifist. I have looked at these events and conclude that he has previously done a lot worse. It can be most irritating to have to repeatedly revert. Lapsed has some very fixed opinions. A charitable view would be that he takes

ClemMcGann 17:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply
]

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):


Outside view

This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries.}

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~~~~):

Discussion

All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.

Lapsed Pacifist's response is filled with lies.

Lapsed Pacifist wanted to remove information about Irish-Americans being Catholic from the Irish-American page, but he left in information about Irish-Ameircans being Protestant. I never took out any information about Protestant Irish-Americans, but he took out information on Irish-Americans being Catholic. I wanted to leave both in.

Lapsed Pacifist is trying to make a point, but he isn't doing it in a very good way. People that are mixed with African ancestry are not being excluded from the list. Derek Jeter and Mariah Carey are on the list. African-Americans with no Irish ancestry are being excluded from the list.

Since you've admitted that your whole point of editing the list was just to prove a point, you should stop editing the list. Leave the list alone. Allow people who want to work on it to work on it without having to deal with your vandalism. Make the point somewhere else.

Go somewhere else to prove your point, though I might have already proven your point wrong, you do not want to acknowledge it because you claim I am rude, when no one has been more rude than you in this entire situation.

64.109.253.204 06:39, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

LP's general behaviour

User:Lapsed Pacifist

LP's games include replacing

Republican Party" on the basis that most fundamentalist Christians vote Republican!). That is only the tip of the iceburg of his POV edits, which are all intended to say a clear "fuck you" to any Unionist editor, or British editor, on Wikipedia. In other words "I'm going to rewrite things to push my community's POV, and squeeze out yours. Wikipedia is siding with me and my community, not you and yours". For every couple of good edits in articles he slots in POV terminology and slants in another. The result is edit wars as other users revert his POV additions.[7]

The reaction to his behaviour on these and other issues can be seen at his talk page.

Irish users, who know exactly what he is up to (non-Irish users mightn't realise that apparently small changes changed the entire meaning, context and POV of articles) have appealed repeatedly to him to stop. He has been blocked twice. An RfC has been proposed but he still goes ahead pushing his linguistic agenda no matter what. Maybe neutral admins could try to achieve what everyone else has so far failed to do and make him understand what NPOV means. Right now he seems to think that anything that does not push the analysis of Sinn Féin is POV. It is tiresome trying to stop Wikipedia becoming Sinn Féinopedia. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 02:39, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

comment by sockpuppet for user banned from Wikipedia deleted as per policy. FearÉIREANN\(caint)

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