Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Green Bay Packers/Archive 2

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The article

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Proposed deletion by @

I'm not sure how many of you follow Packers.com or more specifically Vic Ketchman who does the 'Ask Vic" section, but I believe with his career and 43 seasons covering the NFL he may meet the requirements for an article. What do you all think? --Church ^Talk 15:21, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

His article was actually one of my projects, I just haven't gotten around to it yet! See

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 18:33, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

I began looking in to sources for this, and this is the only thing I can find on him aside from what he's written in his bios.[1] What do you think of this as a

WP:RS? I figured we could pull a lot of information as well form "Ask Vic" columns, but I"m not sure how that would stick as a source.--Church ^Talk

06:06, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I definitely think he is notable enough, it may just be somewhat difficult to get sources. I'll look into it as well.

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 22:30, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm probably an outlier here in that I'm not really a fan in the usual sense; I just find the Packers have an interesting history, with pioneers like

Geaux Tigers! Lizard (talk

) 23:16, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

@

Gonzo fan2007:, what do you think of the external link I mentioned in my first post as a reliable source? If you think it's good I'll go ahead and least fill in his early life section. --Church ^Talk

23:30, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I think it is fine. There are a few articles linked within that article that are good too. Go for it!

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 01:56, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Hello Everyone, I have another article I'd like checked over if you can spare the time before I send it up to DYK. I figured since I had already done one Stanford player, why not another right? Thanks in advance!--Church ^Talk 08:41, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 16:16, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Kyle Murphy has been marked GTG, my next project is Kyler Fackrell, in my opinion someone who I think is going to be an absolute beast for the Pack. --Church ^Talk 03:23, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Nice work @

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 04:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I just finished my work on Kyler Fackrell, He's had a very interesting career. Would you all mind giving it a look over? Also what do you all feel needs to be done for it to be a good article candidate? I had a lot of fun writing it and would love for it to be my first Good Article. --Church ^Talk 20:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Eh, personally I'd choose a different article to shoot for GA. Do you think there's enough info on Fackrell to get it at least double of what it is now? There's been some short GAs out there but I usually feel confident if I can get an article to at least 20k bytes and 30 references. My shortest GA is Abe Mickal. Lizard (talk) 20:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

If I went really in depth about his performance every game of the season I could possibly double it, but I feel like that would be expanding just for the sake of expanding. What do you think?--Church ^Talk 22:13, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Have you heard of an editor named TonyTheTiger? He is an absolute master at milking details. Jweiss can vouch. Sometimes this can be a positive, but in my opinion it creates unnecessarily lengthy articles for less-than-noteworthy individuals. See Keith Elias. Isn't that a chore to read through? Filled with details galore but very little substance. This is just my opinion, but I'd rather write an article of that length for a player that I know people take interest in (like a recent pro bowler, or a hall of famer) than squeeze every drop for a relatively obscure player. It makes the work I put into it feel worth it. Lizard (talk) 22:36, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I haven't heard of that editor but that is some really impressive work on squeezing out detail. In my opinion you don't need that much and I agree with your statement. I'll probably find a more relevant candidate to work for GA. I am extremely proud of my work on this one though. --Church ^Talk 23:30, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

The lead of the Fackrell article is way too short for it to be a good article candidate. It should be expanded to maybe two short paragraphs. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:34, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Nice work @

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 15:35, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Reggie White could easily even be FA. Top 10 player of all time, only player to win

AP NFL Defensive Player of the Year with 2 different teams, performed at a high level well into the latter part of his career, and had a colorful (although sadly short) post-playing life. I have almost no experience writing for defensive players though. Lizard (talk

) 16:31, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Bart Starr is another choice I could see up to FA. I guesss my problem is Im not sure where to even begin writing it.--Church ^Talk

That's always the most difficult part. I usually stock up on references first and then use Pro-Football-Reference as an outline. I look at the seasons that stand out and try to dedicate a paragraph for each season and each championship game, and paragraphs for some individual things that are notable. It's a lot easier if you can get your hands on an actual biography/autobiography, but most players don't have one. Although it looks like Starr has at least one. It also looks like his article has a lot of references already. Likely the work of our resident drive-by editor Glacier109. The man, the myth, the legend. Lizard (talk) 18:55, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome @Lizard the Wizard, Mendeleev, and Yankees10! I am really glad you are here. My main idea for this group is to just foster collaboration and create great articles. Hopefully we can all help each other out!

I have a few projects/ideas and wanted to see if anyone is interested:

• Bring List of Green Bay Packers stadiums to FL-class. I created this and think its close, just needs some more sources in the lede and a thorough copyedit/review.
• Bring Clay Matthews III to GA-class. I just expanded the lede on this article. It just needs better sources, a little expansion and some clean-up.
• Expand George Whitney Calhoun to DYK and start-class. Such a small stub for an important character in Packers history; could easily be expanded for DYK.

Please let me know if you are interested in collaborating on any of these projects. I am also interested if you guys have any projects you would like to collaborate on. Thanks!

There's also the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign that Cbl put together, and there's quite a few Packers to choose from. Clarke Hinkle immediately stands out to me. Not sure how much info is out there for him but his resume is definitely worth more than 5k bytes. Lizard (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

@

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:34, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome back @

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 22:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

As I said earlier, I could use all the help I can get with Aaron Rodgers and getting it fixed up for a GA review. Im on vacation right now but tommorow night I will begin truly going over what to improve.--Church ^Talk 22:08, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Awesome! It would be great to get

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 22:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Will do, you may want to take a look on my userpage. I list all of my DYKs some of which arent listed in the page. We may be closer then we thought to one of our goals--Church ^Talk 22:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I will check it out! Feel free to add them yourself too, if you would like!

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 23:02, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

It's nice having an experienced editor return to the project. Football as a whole could use more editors working on content rather than maintenance. Lizard (talk) 23:07, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Welcome @

Welcome @

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 03:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks man! Is there anything on the Clinton-Dix article I can work on to make it become C class? --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 03:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Needs references. All that trivia in the high school section about playing with and against certain players needs references, otherwise it seems like

original research. The 2014 and 2015 seasons also have no citations. Lizard (talk

) 03:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I added some references there for 2014 and 2015. I added 2 for 2014 and 1 for 2015. What class is it on? --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 03:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

It's start class for now. I should have clarified it'll take a little more work than that. The article should be about double that size for C class. Also, see Help:Footnotes for how to cite with inline citations. I converted those references you added into inline citations but right now they're the bare minimum of an external link. Ideally you should fill out as much authorship info as you can. See Wikipedia:Citing sources. Lizard (talk) 16:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: I did but I'm editing from a phone. So I need to add sources for high school section? --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 00:52, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

If you plan on getting it to GA you'll need a reference after every quote, personal detail, or information likely to be challenged. You don't need to cite that the dog barked, because that's what dogs do. No one would challenge that. But if you say "he was considered one of the best in the country" you'll most likely need multiple independent sources to back that up. And, while not as crucial to cite as the above, if you say he played with or against a certain player you should cite a source mentioning that he played with/against that player, to establish that it's a fact worth mentioning. Otherwise it can come off as

original research. Lizard (talk

) 01:08, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard:, I added some references I know it's to early to nominate it for GA status I will focus on it more. But how does it look should I change it to C-Class? I even added he got in a sideline fight at Carolina in week 9. --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 05:04, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Pinging doesn't work when you add it in after, due to technical stuff. But you don't need to ping me, I have this page watched. I did some copyediting last night to Clinton-Dix's page. The lead section should be a bit longer and cover the major points of the article, which at this point in his career would be that he won two BCS National Championships with Alabama and was named a consensus All-American. But his college career section doesnt even mention he was a consensus All-American. That's a huge accomplishment for any player. There should also be more on the 2012 BCS championship game. Don't worry so much about getting it up to C-class. Just focus on how to improve the article and it'll get there eventually. Lizard (talk) 19:23, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I did saw that edit summary you said to me. I won't worry about C class but I will however worry about the article. I am actually going to add that whenever I can. Thanks for telling me that. --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 19:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Lizard I added the things you told me about to the college section. How does it look? I'm not rushing to get it to GA I want to improve it though. What else should I add I will be happy to add them in there? --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 23:25, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

ThunderFan109, I would recommend you look at other

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 04:13, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Lizard I agree with you for me to read a GA article about a NFL player. I read a article about Calvin Johnson and I saw on the article that it mentioned his college and NFL awards. Isn't that one of the ways a GA article about a NFL player should be? I agree I will keep it up like you said about me workin on HHCD's article. I will try to continue getting familiar with GA articles (hell I will even read the criteria for GA whenever I can). Since I don't feel like adding the citation template to the article, would you mind to do it though. I agree with you when you said for me to keep it up and that's what I will do. I want to continue helping the article. I believe adding a article to GA status is kinda hard and it takes time. I will continue spending time working on it and continue getting familiar with good articles like Calvin Johnson. I saw a lot of info being added in the top of that page and I am hoping the same thing happens in the HHCD article. I won't really worry about GA yet but I do however hope this is my first GA. I even said that it is too early to worry about GAs now. I will focus on improving it by doing a lot of stuff there. But one thing on me improving the article and I hate to say this but I can't do this work all by myself and I might need you to help me with the article if I need it. I might even leave a message on your talkpage one day if I do need help. You can actually tell me the issues about this or what needs to be done on my talkpage so I can fix them. Remember though as I said I won't worry about GAs now. --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 02:47, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Good luck ThunderFan! Unfortunately, if you want to improve the article, you are going to have to do the hard work! {{

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 04:13, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I know but I just can't do it all by myself hopefully you or Lizard help. Anyways, I will let you or Lizard know if I need anything. Should we close this? --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 04:32, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

What's up guys! I am trying to improve the article

Hey ThunderFan. I am not sure I fully understand what you are asking. If you want to expand the article, than just go for it! I don't think any of us are going to be able to tell you what to add, other than what was mentioned above. A good NFL player article summarizes the life and career of the individual, highlighting relevant achievements and notable details that are well-sourced by reliable news sources. It needs to have a proper

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:49, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I added that he was picked by Packer fans. The Citation part is kinda hard though. Could you please look at that part I mentioned about Packer fans picking him. I did mentioned he was excited to be a Packer. That citation part you mentioned seems a little hard though I hate to say. --ThunderFan109 ^{(Thunder Up!)} 02:50, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Does anyone own a copy of Packers by the Numbers: Jersey Numbers and the Players who Wore Them? The preview is pretty limited on Google books, and conveniently excludes the entire chapter on Canadeo. Lizard (talk) 21:24, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't, but it is only $0.44 on Amazon for a used copy! Maybe that will be the next book I read...

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 23:31, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Just ordered it, I will have it wednesday. --Church ^Talk 00:41, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Welp. I normally stick to newspapers and stats sites, but I'm trying to improve my prose by focusing less on statistics and achievements, and more on typical biographical descriptions of the player. The former way worked for a player like Don Hutson because he was a stats monster. But for someone like Canadeo, or a defensive player like Reggie White, stats and achievements alone won't suffice for GA or even B. So books are our best friend. Lizard (talk) 01:10, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

I just finished my expansion of Dean Lowry and would like the usual check over and reevaluation if you all have the time. My goal at this point is to make people seeing DYK on the main page think that all of their editors like the Packers :). Regards----Church ^Talk 06:33, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I am slowly working on it

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:50, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

@

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 20:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Evening everyone, I just finally got Jason Spriggs to a point where I feel comfortable of it passing DYK. I tell you what, Offensive Lineman are tough to write for. Add that to the fact I haven't had the time I need lately to write about him. If someone would mind giving it the usual treatment It'd be much appreciated. --Church ^Talk 19:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

They're very hard to write for. I consider them the "hard mode" of football articles. Lizard (talk) 19:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I just heard the news that Thunderfan was a sock of banned user. The most notable article he edited on this account was Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. Per policy, any changes by a banned person should be reverted but he does seem to have done some alright stuff to the article. When we have the time can we give the article a once-over and a little bit of polish just to make sure everything seems to be okay? Thanks, --Church ^Talk 22:17, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

He really didn't add much of substance. I'd argue it was better off before he got to it. He clearly didn't have much knowledge on football (or at least not what you'd like from someone writing articles on football players), his grammar was sub-par, and he flat-out refused to learn about citations and MOS in general. He obviously meant well, but we really don't need someone who creates more work than he contributes and expects others to do stuff for him. That being said, can someone add a bit more on Tony Canadeo lol. Lizard (talk) 06:33, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

If anyone is interested in a player who's been kinda forgotten by time, Billy Grimes seems like a good article to spend a few hours building up to start-class. Two-time Pro Bowler in 3 seasons with the Pack. Had a brilliant season in 1950. Here's his PFR profile. Lizard (talk) 15:27, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

As always Lizard, I am available for copyedit and review!

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:11, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

You're killing me Smalls. Lizard (talk) 17:14, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I think I'll start on Tony Canadeo next week and see how far I can get it. Running backs have kind of become my forte, and I've seen a good bit on him as I work on Steve Van Buren, what with their careers overlapping. Hopefully we'd be able to get him to GA and knock one more out for that retired numbers Good Topic. Also it's really odd that Jim Taylor's number is retired by the Saints but not the Packers. Lizard (talk) 09:07, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I'll happily help you write it, I've been meaning to get in to GA if you don't mind me tagging along. (I've been procrastinating Aaron Rodgers. heh.) Also, unfortunately Fullback is an underrated position and the Packers have always been slow in retiring numbers.--Church ^Talk 16:07, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Awesome! I will be working on

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 16:15, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

The help would be appreciated Church. That'd allow me to do some work on Clarke Hinkle as well. And yeh, if we continue to let Favre's page go we might risk it losing GA. The consecutive starts section in particular where it lists backups who started or whatever during his streak is particularly unwieldy. Not to mention unsourced. Possibly original research. Lizard (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I've started on Canadeo. Split his career into pre-war and post-war. Gonna go from there. Lizard (talk) 16:42, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I think I've hit all the highlights for Canadeo, if anyone wants to look over it and/or re-asses. It's probably not enough for GA at the moment, most likely not even B. Tidbits were difficult to come by. Lizard (talk) 02:48, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I will look it over this weekend!! And hopefully wrap up

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 03:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Copyedit complete. Looks good so far! Sorry about the {{

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

@

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 17:32, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I didn't see that. Yeh that'll definitely help. Lizard (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm taking a break from the Pack for a while to focus on another project I've been meaning to get to, but I'm planning Reggie White as my next Packers project. Looks like someone did a fine job with his college career, but his pro career is obviously lacking. I've never done a defensive player though, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to spin up something that befits a legend of this magnitude. Lizard (talk) 04:06, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Defensive players biggest impacts are their stats, I may take a crack at it when you're ready. In the meantime I am about to request a Per Review on Aaron Rodgers and get a better idea of what to do to get him to GA----Church ^Talk 05:57, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Looks like Don Hutson is gonna be GA reviewed soon. Hopefully it's good enough. If so it'll be 2 down and 4 to go for the retired numbers, plus the retired numbers list article. Lizard (talk) 15:47, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Nice work on the GA Lizard! The article reads really well. I just got back from vacation, and hope to get

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 20:21, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 20:25, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

They'll want to see more on his playing style, and more on why he's considered the first great receiver. And they'll probably skewer it for relying too much on stats, since stats aren't inherently notable. It really isn't my best work. Lizard (talk) 21:00, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Bart Starr is a GA on the French Wikipedia. And the refs are all in English, so maybe the main contributor can assist in our English version. Lol does pinging work with interlanguage links? Lizard (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

I can attempt a google translate, that's the best of my abilites.--Church ^Talk 04:50, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Speaking of Bart, a nice article about him on Packers.com today. Nice find Lizard, although I sadly do 't speak French. There are definitely a lot of sources in that article!

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 16:48, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey gang, just wanted to let you all know that I have nominated

Evening Gents, Just wanted to wish you all a happy NFL season. I for one will spend tomorrow kicked up in my chair with a cold beer watching the Pack handle Jacksonville. I apologize for the drop off in my productivity here lately. The 80 hour weeks aren't fun. Heres hoping to a fun season and more improvement to the Packers articles!--Church ^Talk 00:01, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Church: @Yankees10: @Lizard the Wizard: We have the same coaching staff so expect a 9-7 season. We will never get back to the Super Bowl until Thompson and McCarthy is gone. Aaron hasn't been his self don't be excited guys. --Mark Ellwitz (talk) 19:50, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mark Ellwitz: Just curious, what's your favorite NBA team? Lizard (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

@Lizard the Wizard: I don't know. Again, I was talking about McCarthy and Thompson. Any chances McCarthy is gone after the season? --Mark Ellwitz (talk) 01:38, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Who knows. The NFC North has been pretty bad over the past few years, but the Vikings look to be on the rise. It's pretty scary how good they're looking even without Peterson. Lizard (talk) 02:15, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

How do you think Packers will be this year @Lizard the Wizard:? --Mark Ellwitz (talk) 02:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm actually not really a packers fan, I just enjoy working on articles for historically great players, and the Packers have many of them. Lizard (talk) 02:42, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

I want to add that MM was critized for conservatism against the Seahawks. Is there any citation I can say? --Mark Ellwitz (talk) 02:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Sorry everyone for suddenly going MIA. Not sure how much time I will have to edit, but I am still here and will answer any messages sent my way or here at the project. Hope all is well!

I'm pretty much finished work on Jim Taylor. Images would be nice to break up the wall of text a bit. If anyone lives near Lambeau or somewhere that displays packers memorabilia (such as worn jerseys/helmets), some images would be appreciated not just for Taylor's page, but as many players as possible. Lizard (talk) 22:31, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

I created a subtitle page about his catch against the Cowgirls User:WikiHelper1/The Tip-Toe Catch. Could you guys please help me improve it, thanks! --WikiHelper1 (talk) 15:15, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Let's do it! There is a good amount of work that needs to be done on the article, but I think we can get it there. I don't know if anyone is still active in this project, but let's try! ‡ Єl Cid, Єl Caɱ̩peador ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 16:24, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 21:47, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

@

Gonzo fan2007: Ok, great, I will let you know! I will do everything I can to make Vince proud ;) ‡ Єl Cid, Єl Caɱ̩peador ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ

13:53, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Brett Favre, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 22:30, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

I have proposed that

Merge  Done.

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk)

@ 14:27, 22 July 2018 (UTC)