Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/September 2010
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"famous alumni", etc
Ugh.
This kind of thing is endemic in en:WP (let alone ja:WP).
That it's endemic doesn't mean it shouldn't or can't be fixed. (Indeed, I fixed it for this university.) Here's what I think needs to be done for any list of teaching staff or alumni:
- Link all the names
- Delete any, however eminent, that is redlinked
- Source each person's relationship to the university (RS only!)
- Delete any name that can't be sourced within four months or so
If the list of references promises to be excruciatingly long, then do away with the list and use a category instead. (Of course, inclusion in the category should require a RS.)
How does this sound? -- Hoary (talk) 08:54, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- This is something I have also noted recently, and agree entirely with your suggested course of action. --DAJF (talk) 13:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- You and I have made a start. Now all that has to be done is the remaining 98% of the work on that article, and all the work on hundreds more universities. A thrilling prospect! ¶ [later:] Hoping to bring down the former figure to a more manageable 96%, I decided to "source" one more claim. I clicked on the bios of five more artistes. Not one sourced the claim that the person had graduated from the particular university. For at least two of these articles I clicked on any vaguely authoritative-looking source provided for the article; as a whole none told me anything. One article even implored editors to augment it by translating from the Japanese article; inferring that the Japanese article would be good, I took a look -- and no, it was a dreary chronology, completely unsourced and richly meriting warning flags of its own. (I'm not sure that I have ever seen an article in ja:WP that merited translation.) Eventually I found one source (NYT!) for a second person's study. -- Hoary (talk) 14:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, enough of Geidai.
That article had, and still has, four photos of individuals said to have studied or taught there (of which at least one is copyright with a very dubious "fair use" rationale). No evidence was presented either in that article or in the biographical articles for the relationship of any one of these to the university. And I've given up looking in ja:WP for evidence for anything -- ja:WP seems to be a collection of factoids vaguely remembered as seen on the telly, or similar.
I've now sourced two of the four individuals. As for the other two, I'm pretty sure that Sakamoto and Kitano are indeed related, but I got tired of looking for solid evidence. And the lists of alumni and faculty members remain largely unsourced.
Japanese universities are a disaster area within en:WP. I'd hope that we can at least agree:
- to stop adding any claim of affiliation -- having studied there, having taught there -- that isn't reliably sourced
- to remove any redlinked people
- to remove any non-linked people
By contrast to the intermittently interesting article on Waseda University, that on Tokyo Zokei University is a mere stub but at least every single claim of affiliation is backed up with a reliable source. -- Hoary (talk) 00:29, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Tōgō Shrine flea market
Is it true that the Tōgō Shrine flea market in Tokyo has been discontinued in 2010 (info added to the article by an ip)? If yes, what was the reason? bamse (talk) 19:13, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- I can't find any reliable accounts of it closing. It's not on the Japanese version of the article. Unless any sources can be given to back up the claim, I'd say it's just hearsay. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:56, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
- It seems to be true. Its home page says so. (Google translate) ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- So it will end in December, but hasn't ended yet. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 00:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- No. The message was posted last year. The last market was held on December 6, 2009 according to other sources.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- What other sources? The page you linked to gives no year for the information, only a month and day. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 00:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) I just found this blog which says "2009年の12月6日が最終開催日だったんですね。" And this blog says "東郷神社の骨董市は、昨年12月6日をもって終了。" Obviously those links shouldn't be used and I'm not finding an actual RS to back up the claims so it can be sourced on the page, but there you go. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:48, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, that's good enough to know the date. It's possible a local newspaper would have covered it, but we'd have to have access to the newspaper archives to confirm that. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 00:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- The year in which December 6 is Sunday is 1998 and 2009. ;-) ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, but who besides you is going to look up something like that? ;) ···Join WikiProject Japan! 04:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, but who besides you is going to look up something like that? ;) ···
- The year in which December 6 is Sunday is 1998 and 2009. ;-) ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, that's good enough to know the date. It's possible a local newspaper would have covered it, but we'd have to have access to the newspaper archives to confirm that. ···
- (edit conflict) I just found this blog which says "2009年の12月6日が最終開催日だったんですね。" And this blog says "東郷神社の骨董市は、昨年12月6日をもって終了。" Obviously those links shouldn't be used and I'm not finding an actual RS to back up the claims so it can be sourced on the page, but there you go. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:48, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- What other sources? The page you linked to gives no year for the information, only a month and day. ···
- No. The message was posted last year. The last market was held on December 6, 2009 according to other sources.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
- So it will end in December, but hasn't ended yet. ···
- It seems to be true. Its home page says so. (Google translate) ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Vernacular architecture
After provisionally linking from
I'd been naively expecting an article on plain old 長屋. But I think that the only reference to these in en:WP is here in "Housing in Japan". This tells us: In premodern Japan, commoners typically lived either in free-standing houses, now known as minka, or, predominantly in cities, in machiya (町屋) or row-houses called nagaya (長屋). Examples are still visible in Kyoto. It doesn't start to explain what these "row-houses" are, and the impression it gives of their belonging to the past and tourist spots hardly squares with the book I have in front of me now, Nakazato and Nakano's 長屋迷路, a collection of photographs taken in Mukōjima and elsewhere in Sumida-ku less than a decade ago.
Is there nobody hereabouts equipped to write about Japanese architecture? -- Hoary (talk) 00:11, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Ink Music: In the Land of the Hundred-Tongued Lyricist
Ever heard of this film? No, I hadn't either. Which is OK in itself, but when I saw it spammed I got
) 13:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)Anyone interested in kids' picture books?
This triggered this. -- Hoary (talk) 13:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Three old documents, translation help
Please help! For the "content" column in List of National Treasures of Japan (ancient documents), I am struggling with the translation of some Japanese texts related to three ancient documents. The documents and some links are:
- Rigen daishi hitsu shobunshō (理源大師筆処分状), [1]
- Stone in Nasu County (那須国造碑, nasu kokuzō hi), [2], [3]
- History and Legends of the Kōryū-ji temple (広隆寺縁起資財帳, kōryū-ji engi shizai chō); source required
I don't need an exact translation, just one or two lines about the content of these documents. bamse (talk) 14:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
- How about these?
- A letter of dismissal written by Rigendaishi.
- Stone monument in remembrance of Atainoide/Ataeide/Ide of Nasu.
- Catalogue of treasures and historical record of the temple.
What kind of reference do you want? How about this? [4] Oda Mari (talk) 08:09, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks. As for 1., who was dismissed and why? If I am not mistake, the link says something about an elderly head priest and "unsuitable" (for health reasons?), but I don't manage to make sense of the parts of that sentence. By "source required" in "3" I meant any kind of source speaking about the content of that document. bamse (talk) 08:41, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Gokkun
A dispute has arisen on this article about whether including an illustration is appropiate. Project members are invited to visit the talk page to contribute to the debate. Caveat for project members - this article is about a sexual activity. Exxolon (talk) 12:29, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I am pleased to announce that the article Akira Kurosawa, formerly a B-class article (rated as of Top Importance by Wikiproject:Japan), has recently been nominated by me as a Featured Article. It would be appreciated if participants in Wikiproject:Japan would go to the Featured article candidates page and have a look.
Regards,
Dylanexpert (talk) 16:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Japan and divorce
I wonder if this source can help things out:
- Lah, Kyung. "Divorce ceremonies give Japanese couples a new way to untie the knot." CNN. September 7, 2010.
WhisperToMe (talk) 07:32, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
Food task force?
Do we already have a food task force? I started a stub for Narutomaki topped on ramen.--Shinkansen Fan (talk) 12:16, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- We don't have one right now, but I'd support having one. Anyone else interested in one being created? ···Join WikiProject Japan! 15:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- I've done several translations of food articles. Could be marginally useful. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, I've created one: Join WikiProject Japan! 05:17, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Is there a category for those articles? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 12:00, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks, Nihonjoe. I find it odd that nobody wrote anything on narutomaki despite the popularity of ramen and the Naruto franchise. It seems that we need to work on many food and drink articles. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 12:25, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- I just tried tossing in a category on the template, but my templating skills are disappointingly lame. Nihonjoe, can you take a look? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 12:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed. It may take a day or so for those articles already tagged a part of the task force to show up in the category. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 15:52, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Fixed. It may take a day or so for those articles already tagged a part of the task force to show up in the category. ···
- I just tried tossing in a category on the template, but my templating skills are disappointingly lame. Nihonjoe, can you take a look? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 12:41, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Did you mention it to WP:WikiProject Food and Drink ? Perhaps it should be a joint taskforce? 76.66.200.95 (talk) 06:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
- Nope, but you did. I've left a note there as well. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 07:21, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
- Nope, but you did. I've left a note there as well. ···
Is this article named right?
The article
- Well, it could be any of the locations listed Join WikiProject Japan! 16:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Could it be 妙山 instead? I'm having a hard time finding either name near Mt. Fuji. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 16:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- Okay, a bit more. The article links to this topographical map. I've lined it up more or less on Google Maps. This is a review of a place nearby and says "鉄砲木ノ頭 てっぽうぎのあたま (明神山)". So maybe it's supposed to be called Myōjinsan? (I'm also starting to question the notability of this article: a grassy area on a mountain that's referenced by unreliable sources?) — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 16:32, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- I moved to the correct name. Oda Mari (talk) 17:05, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- The Mount Fuji article used to have a big problem with tourist activity spam (paragliding, etc.). I suspect this article is just an outgrowth of that, rather than a location that's notable in its own right. Good luck getting any location article deleted, though. — Gavia immer (talk) 17:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
- I moved to the correct name. Oda Mari (talk) 17:05, 9 September 2010 (UTC)
Japan Go Association
I was wondering about how to translate Nihon Ki-in. It appears to have been translated into English as Japan Go Assocation, which sounds peculiar. I would expect Japanese Go Assocation to be used. However, I have also seen it said that Japan Go Institute is the correct literal translation. Does anyone have any opinions on this?--ZincBelief (talk) 11:59, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Women in Japan
The page Women in Japan is in need of expert attention. It cites few sources, and has been tagged as an essay and possibly original research. Five potential sources are listed, but with no footnotes or in-text references. Cnilep (talk) 15:09, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
- It appears to be a rip from http://countrystudies.us/japan/73.htm. Apparently the articles on that site are cited to Ronald E. Dolan and Robert L. Worden, editors. Japan: A Country Study. Washington: GPO for the Library of Congress, 1994. It looks like you can also access it from http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/jptoc.html and go to 'Gender Stratification and the Lives of Women' at the bottom. (You can't bookmark it; something about temporary locations.) What I'm not sure about is whether it's copyvio or plagiarism; either way it doesn't belong. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 15:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Toshiya Fuji - can you help?
This previously PRODded article on Japanese actor
- Article has now been nominated for deletion. If anyone would like to comment, they can do so talk) 05:58, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Quick translation help
Sorry to bother again. For
- 渓林偈 is a poem about nature's great harmony when 大燈国師, aka ja:宗峰妙超 , looked at a copse in the late fall. 南獄偈 is a poem about the grandeur of 南嶽衡山/Mount Heng (Hunan) and the admiration for the Chinese emperor then. Oda Mari (talk) 15:54, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Reading help
What is the reading for 与宗悟大姉法語? It is the last entry in
- I am not sure how the whole words read in Japanese. However its meaning is "Sermon for Sōgo Taishi" [5] or "Sermon dedicated to Sōgo Taishi" 与(yo, for or dedicated to) 宗悟大姉(Sōgo taishi) 法語(hōgo, sermon). Taishi (literally Great sister)is a honorific title for nuns. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:06, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
WikiProject Japan to do list
Hi! While the "Featured content candidates" on the
- I don't know that the to do list has been updated for a long time. People tend to just use the project page instead. ···Join WikiProject Japan! 07:39, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
League of Diet Members Believing the Objectives of the Holy War
- The original title was "League of Diet Members by leaving [sic] the objetives [sic] of Holly [sic] War". How about redirecting the current title to ) 00:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- ) 01:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- I found ja:聖戦貫徹議員連盟. I corrected the page title.--Bukubku (talk) 16:21, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Much ado about nothing
There's a discussion at Talk:Mu (negative) over whether 無 in Japanese "commonly" refers to its English interpretation of 'your question is meaningless'. Additional feedback welcome. Jpatokal (talk) 02:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
- Bump! Jpatokal (talk) 12:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
- Oh dear Nothingness. What you have there is either someone thoroughly arrogant and blissfully unaware of their own brusqueness or you are being trolled. I might comment when (if...) I make my way through all the comments, if I have something meaningful to add. I do want to express my commiserations to you for having to deal with people who think saying stuff like "I read Japanese children's books, and I have Japanese friends, so there!" is real impressive. TomorrowTime (talk) 12:40, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
The VAIBS guy is back
Remember the VAIBS article? It appears that particular editor is back, and another of his articles is facing imminent deletion here. Just thought I'd give you guys a heads up, in case some of you hadn't noticed. TomorrowTime (talk) 13:18, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
New proposed draft for Sea of Japan naming dispute
The article Sea of Japan naming dispute has been under full protection for about 1 month due to an edit war that occurred in August. Discussion on the talk page stalled at the end of August, and there are not many active participants on that page. Since that time, I have been working on a wholly new draft to fix, as best as I could, many of the numerous problems on the article. Since this article falls within the purview of this Wikiproject, I am inviting members to come participate in the discussion on the talk page at Sea of Japan naming dispute#Major overhaul, which explains the current articles deficiencies (poor sources, disorganized, etc.) and what I have done to fix them. In that section you will find a link to the draft version in my user space. While this article and its subject are clearly a contentious matter, I sincerely believe that we can create a useful and NPOV article about the subject through the careful involvement of more editors. Thank you for any help you can provide. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)