Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Kerala/Archive 2

• List of Places: These are necessary and it helps users. But it should be arranged in a manner to help search easier. Will it help if we randomly create lists like these :
  Places of Interest in Kannur district , Places near Kannur town , Important Places in Payyanur Area. These are not stand alone lists. If a user wants to find a place in Kannur, (s)he will first visit the page Kannur
  . No one will try search “Places near ABC", etc. So my suggestion is that, associated with each District page, we maintain some lists: List of Important places in ABC, List of Educational Institutions in ABC, List of Hospitals in ABC, etc. (But not Pilgrimage centres in ABC, Institutions of Higher Learning in ABC, Hindu Temples in ABC, etc. ) These should be linked to the relevant section of the page of ABC. The lists can then be divided into different sections. Eg: List of Important places in ABC into List of tourist places in ABC, List of pilgrimage centers in ABC. List of Educational Institutions in ABC into List of engineering colleges in ABC, List of Universities ABC etc. If any of these sections become too large, (then and then only) we can develop it as a new list. This should then be linked to the parent list and a brief description should also be given in the parent list. This is necessary not only to maintain a style but to make navigation (for users) and contribution (for editors) easier. Regarding the lists that I have seen, I have this suggestion..

Merge these into one and subdivide:

Thrissur Rural

. (There is no need either.) These terms are not defined. So lists like Places in Thrissur Rural lack any context)

Merge these into one and subdivide:

Educational Institutions in Thrissur City

Merge these into one and subdivide:

Places of Interest in Kannur district , Places near Kannur town , Important Places in Payyanur Area

Merge these into one and subdivide:

Places of interest in and around Ernakulam

Rename/ Merge to

Institutions of Higher Learning in Ernakulam Town

Delete : Nearby places to Kozhencherry.

• Place names: I do not know whether there is any accepted policy regarding notability of places. (there is a proposal
  WP:NOT
  )

• I am also interested to see some justification for the existence of the following articles/ redirects in wikipedia:
  Brahman's

It is possible that some of these suggestiions were discussued earlier. There could also be some technical reasons ( as in the case of redirects) for keeping these. I am presenting this here to know it. Please don’t take offence if you had contributed to any of these article I mentioned. My only concern is to maintain wikipedia as an

• I see that Procession of caparisoned elephants and The processions of richly caparisoned elephants exist no more. Clt13 05:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

In this context, I would like to request users dealing with Kerala related contents to refrain from creating stupid articles, adding unintelligent information and using uneducated language. I have in mind articles like these:

IFFK, Vatakara, Govindapuram, Kozhikode, & co. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kundan After Sundown (talk • contribs

)

Please read. Regards, Ganeshk (talk) 08:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jansanskrity - deleted

S. Jithesh's article has been resurrected and its AFD can be found here.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. Jithesh (2nd nomination) - canceled

Hello. The

Please check [6] and comment. Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 03:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The article S. Jithesh was speedy deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. Jithesh (recreation of deleted content) and the page was protected. The alleged sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry [7] second deletion nomination (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. Jithesh (2nd nomination)) only raised doubts.

However, User:Devapriya insists that he is famous in Kerala.

She has provided some links to prove her point:

• [8]: This is a directory, which anybody can join and add/update his/her profile (From the site: "It is FREE without photos and Rs.100 with photos")
• [9]: Again, anybody can sign up and create a profile here.
• [10] is a personal page hosted at Tripod, a free web-hosting service
• [11] is a personal page hosted at Geocities, a free web-hosting service
• Chintha.com: I'm not sure about this one. But from the website: "Chintha.com depends heavily on the resources of many voluteers. They are contributing their time and energy to create content"

However, I understand that not every notable person has an online presence. So, I wanted to know from Keralites: Is this person is really notable or not?. If yes, I (or some other admin) will unprotect the page and allow creation of article with references.. utcursch | talk 13:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete He is a noted cartoonist in Malayalam cartoon field. No google hits does'nt imply that he is not notable or famous. That is waht we Wikipedians are for:)!! Kjrajesh --Rajesh Kakkanatt 10:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

. Hello Utcurschsir , the campaign of some Kerala Wikipedians against S. Jithesh and his popular cartoon Magazine Chiricheppu is already started. U can read it from their talkpages.The magazine is such a sort. It publishes Political satire and social criticism. It achieved lot of enemies...! Actually They are not against S. Jithesh. They know he is notable. Actually they are attacking his Cartoon Magazine. This Campaign has been started before months. Check the talk pages of Tintin, Gluewhale, Ageo. In Kerala wikipedians there are two groups. One group loves art and literature. Others hate! Devapriya 15:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Since my name has repeatedly been dragged into it, I'll comment on it once more. This will probably be my last post on this topic, and I am no longer going to bother whether it is re-created or not. It has been suggested by the Jithesh supporters that I hold some personal agenda against him, and was indirectly accused of triggering the checkuser. I didn't initiate the checkuser request and have no idea who tipped Dmcdevit. I had not even heard the name of Jithesh before August - if I had, chances are that I would have suggested keeping the article.

I first noticed the creation of this article in early August as documented in

According to Raghu

, "both the cartoonist and the CHIRICHEPPU seems to be highly non-notable"

Deepu commented that "Chiricheppu fails the notablity test drastically"

Gluewhale said that "the magazine exists and is available in "pettikkadas". But this definitely should not warrant him any merit. The magazine may be popular with the uneducated masses but he is not a renowned cartoonist as he claims. In any case the article is an advertisement."

This was all before the AfD started.

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chiricheppu and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. Jithesh. Five regular Malayali editors (incl myself) commented in the former and each one had the same opinion. On my trips to Kerala, I twice checked whether I could get a copy of the magazine to see what it looks like. The results can be found here and here. I checked for Chiricheppu in the city where I live as well but couldn't find it, while Hasyakairali, another Malayalam comic magazine, is available.

When the Afd started, new users began to appear arguing that both the articles be kept. I won't go into that. My first interaction with Nileena was this. I never got a reply to the yes or no question.

That's about it from my side. As said earlier, this is not worth wasting any more of my time. I wrote this long post just to make clear that I have no "hidden agenda" or personal dislike for him, and that whatever I did was always in good faith. Tintin (talk) 14:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Please see this ![12] U will say that all the persons listed here are notable ....except one .... ? I know it very well...! But references are references..! An editor must not be biased...!We all know P. K. Manthri is highly notable. Can u show any sort of online news report or online reference about P. K. Manthri to prove his notability...? Nileena joseph 16:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

All my contributions are on art and literature related subjects. I strongly believe that I have enough knowledge in these subjects.I think no other Kerala wikipedian has created this much article on art and literature. I have done more than 500 hundred edits in art related subjects.I have no doubt on the notability of S. Jithesh. Tintin1107 is an expert in sports related subjects. I agree that. I feel great respect towards him because his knowledge in sports related subject is so vast. That's why I honoured him a barnstar. But I'm sorry to say he is very poor in art related or literature related subjects. In a talk with user Ageo he says that he dont know [Prakash Shetty]. [[13]]. Dear Mr. Tintin, those who is ignorant about Prakash Shetty dont have a right to participate in a discussion on Cartoon. I think I have no right to participate in a talk on cricket. I'm ignorant about cricket. I doubt whether Ageo is a keralite? He hasn't heard about Yesudasan or Gireesh Puthenchery! A real wonder!!!! What kind of Malayali...? I dont know why u are personally against S. Jithesh. Anyway you have personal agenda against him. That I'm sure. I 'm sure Cartoon lovers of Kerala may not have any doubt on his notability. U too know him very well. But u hate him or his magazine..? All ur imputations against me are baseless.. But I promoted many journalists and artist to visit and edit wikipedia inorder to improve it. Most of them hesitated, but a few asked me about the tachniques of editing. I helped them. For eg. Mr. Joshy George. U can watch him everyday in Jeevan.t.v.'s Harithakeralam pgm and in Asianet Cable Vision's Sesham Visesham. He has a regular column in Rashtadeepika Cenema . We are genuine persons. We are ready to exhibit the scanned copy of election commissioners identity card...? Can u...?If u r genuine I,'m ready to clear all ur doubts. Anyway watch the news paper cuttings. On the time when the debates were going on Mathrubhumi daily published his comment on an art related topic. I'm in search of those news cuttings. Now see this...? [14],[15] These are news cuttings from Desabhimani daily and Indian express daily. But I still believe that I'm playing violin in front of a deaf and blind man. But I cant sit mum without saying a word against injustice and egoclash. Nileena joseph 06:01, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey Nileena. From the images of newspaper cutting you have uploaded, it looks like S Jitesh is notable enough. Why everything happened the way it happened was because of the way things related to the article S Jitesh unfolded. When it was initially created it looked like sort of pushing the subject of the article. (Jitesh's name was added to list of famous Keralite and Nairs , A user named Cartoonist Jitesh editing the article etc). All this made it look like some vanity article. This happens many times in wikipedia and since Tintin was maintining the India related deletion sorting for long, he know that well. So when he saw this article he posted the message in Kerala notice board. That time I had never heard of Jitesh, so google search was the only way of finding it out. All the sources that I had got was not credible. so I also suggested that it be deleted. Then after it was deleted all of a sudden new users coming and editing these articles would make anybody suspicious that these are socks.

One more thing is that wikipedia as it says is not a democracy. So if you can provide adequete proof of the notability of the person, you don't need other peoples to support you. The person who closes the AFD does not look at how many ayes and nays are there but the arguements and the references. So I would say that we leave aside all this past tensions and start editing to make the articles related to Kerala better.

thanks --Raghu 18:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[16] Those who know Malayalam may read the above said article. As we all know 'Malayalam' Weekly is so popular. Have u ever read the article 'Jeevitham Enne Enthu Padippichu'. That noted column is compiled by former deputy chief secretary- T. N. Jayachandran.I.A.S. Every week Malayalam weekly publishes the visions of notable persons from different walks of life. It is a hit column. Only notable persons are allowed to write in that particular column.The above link is the scanned copy of that column. In kerala wikipedia somebody thinks that a person who had played in just one oneday cricket is highly notable. But an artist who had drawn more than 10000 bookcovers and cartoons are non notable. I dont understand such things. They will comment Kottakkal Sivaraman is non notable and Ayyappa Baiju is highly notable. Amitabh Batchan is notable but Harivamsarai Batchan (the great poet in Marathi)is non notable. Usually encyclopedias are edited by experts in the concerned subjects.Unfortunately in wikipedia it is by teenage computer professionals. They know about icecreams, munch, cricket and commercial films . May I ask a Question...? How a person can judge cartoons and caricatures if he is ignorant about Prakash Shetty, Ajith Ninan, Ravi Sankar or E.P.Unni...? Just read...read...read.... Reading contemperory Literary periodicals is the only medicine to solve ignorance in post modern literature and art. Also have a watch....! Doordarsan's Nisagandhi, Asianet's On Record, Jeevan T.V's Njan....etc! I don't think thatChintha.comis publishing the bio of non notable persons. It's a site created by eminent journalists. * [17]: This is a directory, which publishes the biography of artists . It willnot publish the biography of any layman...! If anyone is doubtful please try...!My humple request is that experts from various fields must come and edit wikipedia. Or otherwise this site willnot improve. Stupidity and ego clash will kill wikipedia. I think this site is not for just cricket related articles...! There are hundreds of art lovers....! Devapriya 14:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Google hits must not be taken as a sole yardstick in Asian related AfD's. Newspapers of Vernacular Languages may have millions of readership. For example, in India every state has its own language. There are more than 20 widely speaking native languages in India. But the news reports from the newspapers of such languages are not available in google search.Take the case of Malayala Manorama Newspaper. Currently this Malayalam language newspaper has a readership of over 9 million, with a circulation base of over 1.4 million copies according to Audit Beureu of Circulations. Manorama is one of the India's largest selling and most widely read news paper. There are more than 50 such newspapers in India. News reports from such dailies are not available in google eventhough it have millions of readership. But news reports from English dailies with 1000 or 2000 copies are available in google search. It is really misleading...Isn't it...? In this context of notability tests based on google hits may be a worthless, foolish effort. In such circumstances we must consider the words of native wikipedians with more importance. May I know ur valuable opinion ……?  Nileena joseph ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 05:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

There are two deletions going on in the AFD which are Kerala related. Anyone interested can vote here.--Agεθ020 (ΔT • ФC) 20:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mannaraprayil Cor-Episcopa - deleted
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moorkanade - no consensus, default to keep

The portal is up for peer review at Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Peer review/Portal:Kerala. Please post your comments and suggestions there. Thank you.--thunderboltz^(Deepu) 13:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Are these notable: Anuj Nair, The Indix, My Love for You, Simple Truth? utcursch | talk 12:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I've heard of him. Doesnt look notable to merit an article, IMO.--thunderboltz^(Deepu) 11:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)