Talk:Berryessa/North San José station

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved.

• Oppose San José should never have been moved to an e-removed spelling in the first place. It is still pronounced San José, not San-Johz. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm refraining from voting until we see what actual BART signage says. Mjdestroyerofworlds (talk) 19:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • As of March 2018, signage was simply "Berryessa" (see this photo for example). Pi.1415926535 (talk) 22:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
      • referring more to maps and timetables and i suppose operator announcements (convention in addition to signage), but yes, that is very convenient labeling on the building itself in big letters. Mjdestroyerofworlds (talk) 00:44, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per
  WP:ENGLISH in which we don't use diacritics. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• WP:ENGLISH says "The use of modified letters (such as accents or other diacritics) in article titles is neither encouraged nor discouraged; when deciding between versions of a word which differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works)." Dekimasuよ! 18:01, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply
  ]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

talk page or in a move review

. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved by admin DragonflySixtyseven (talk · contribs) at 04:22, June 12, 2020‎ (UTC). Mz7 (talk) 04:38, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In response to #Official station name:

@Mxn: I'd use the accent as in the official name. Officially, San Jose, California is spelled with the diacritics but COMMONNAME dictates we don't use it. For the station, let us use the official spelling with the accent until enough sources arise to establish a COMMONNAME. On opening day, I plan to also see how it is spelled on train destination signs, with the caveat that I think those signs are too ancient and/or do not have enough resolution (DPI) to correctly display the accent, particularly for the small indications used to show the next train's time rather than the large one used when a train with that destination is arriving.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jasper Deng: I think the Daktronics overhead displays are programmed to always show destinations in all caps, which makes it unlikely that they'll add the accent mark even on the newer displays that have the resolution for it. But there's a chance the non-electronic, white-on-black destination signs or the 511-branded departure screens might show the full name with the accent mark, since they're all set in title case. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 05:14, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Pi.1415926535: who I think would like to have a word on this too.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a particularly strong opinion yet, but leaning in favor of the double barrel (despite how much I hate the ridiculously long station names) and accent. Probably the best is to see what comes out over the next two weeks, particularly from BART. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 08:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I support use of the accent mark, especially as commonname has yet to be established. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 22:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Making this a full-fleged requested move as clear consensus has developed in favor of the accent.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:13, 1 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. WP:COMMONAME can still be established by recent news articles and media within the past year on the construction and preparation of said station.[5][6][7][8] Just because it has not opened yet does not necessarily mean a common name has not been established by reliable sources. And many of these sources still do not use the accent mark.[9] So unless these same sources start using the accent after it opens, I do not support adding it here. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Zzyx11: And that seems likely to change once the new map and signage come into play. There will be substantial media coverage that day as well for sure.--Jasper Deng (talk) 03:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, so there is no reason to move the page now until we get closer to June 13 and find out whether sfgate.com, NBC Bay Area and the others I previously cited start using the accent (which I highly doubt seeing how Bay Area media like the The Mercury News treat San Jose State University without the accent for example[10]), still use "Berryessa/North San Jose" without the accent, use the shorten "Berryessa", or start to prefer VTA's "Berryessa Transit Center". Until then, this is premature. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:40, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

      Aside from news sources, we'll want to keep an eye on other published media, such as guidebooks and maps, for

      WP:WIAN. I wouldn't be surprised if the accent mark takes hold among these media before print and TV news outlets. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 10:02, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply

      ]

• Support. I think the accent mark would be more accurate, though I'm not in a particular hurry to rename the article. (It's been years of delays; what's a couple extra weeks, right?) My comments above were in response to recent edits that removed every occurrence of the accent mark throughout the article, which I felt was an overcorrection even considering WP:COMMONNAME. I would encourage editors to avoid information loss in any quest for consistency. There's no prohibition against mentioning official or stylized names in article leads. BART even considered the inclusion of accent marks on its map to be notable enough to comment on it publicly. The worst that could happen with the status quo is that a reader perceives the article to be a bit inconsistent or sloppy, but at least they'll come away aware of the two spellings in use. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 09:23, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes restore the accent, which is plenty common, more correct, and helpful to the reader. Dicklyon (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support accent, per reasons stated before and by other users above. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 03:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, because it's almost certain that the official spelling will get used more and more based on the recent official documentation.—
  talk ~ contribs) 02:22, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support: it's very clear that the accent is official, and it is consistently used by BART. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 02:32, 6 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, common sense move. Cards84664 00:51, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.