Talk:Broadwater Farm
Broadwater Farm was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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UK geography Low‑importance | |||||||
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Urban studies and planning | |||||||
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Automated peer review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.
- Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at [?]
- See if possible if there is a [?]
- Per [?]
- Per [?]
- Per [?]
- Per [?]
- Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), avoid using special characters (ex: &+{}[]) in headings.
- As done in [?]
- Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of [?]
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Elonka 15:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Good article comments
It looks like this article is really close to GA status. My specific recommendations are:
- Remove some of the redlinks
- Give it another good copyediting pass. There are several run-on sentences, or sentences with duplicated words.
- Don't start multiple paragraphs with the same words.
- Ensure that references come after punctuation, not before.
- Avoid parenthetical statements. Just put them in the main text.
- The different sizes of images is a bit distracting. Many should be more consistent, perhaps 250px
- There are too many subsections, some with only a couple sentences. Try to combine them into more general topics.
- Ensure that the lead is a good summary of the entire article, per WP:LEAD.
I'm putting the GA nom "on hold" for now. If these issues can be addressed within a week, the nom can probably proceed, otherwise the nom will fail. It can be resubmitted though later, after the problems are addressed. Best, --Elonka 16:12, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Reply to above
Apologies for taking so long to respond; recent unforeseen events have meant I've been somewhat busier than usual...
I disagree with the comment about the redlinks; the only things that are redlinked are named geographic locations and individuals who undoubtedly pass
As per my many previous arguments,
Some of the photos are deliberately in forced size. There are comments in hidden text beside each place where I've done this, to explain why in each case; mostly, either because they have extreme aspect ratios (such as the panorama views) or have detail which would be lost at smaller size (such as the labelling on the map). I agree that it looks messy, but can't see a way round it. I've not forced widths at any point for reasons not allowed under WP style guidelines.
I agree entirely about the subsections; this article was pared down from a longer early version. That said, I think the short subsections in the "Deterioration" section need to be kept, as each relates to a discrete period in the area's history.
At some point when I get the time I'll rewrite and resubmit this, as I think it's an article that could go a lot further, and I've taken it as far as I can — ]
Misleading references
Thank you for the work that's been done on this article, but I still feel that it needs more to get to GA status. Currently the tone of is a bit too much like a promotional piece. And some of the references are flat out misleading. For example, the lead talks about how the area is "safest in the world" and has the "lowest burglary rate in the country", but the linked references have no verification of that. Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. I recommend reviewing all references to ensure that they actually back up the claims. I also recommend that the lead be rewritten to provide a better summary of the overall article. The Broadwater riots were evidently a major incident, yet they're barely mentioned in the lead. Please review the policy on
- I've removed the "safest urban area in the world" claim as I agree the reference in its current state doesn't say that (at the time of writing, it did say it; however, as the source is the local council's website which isn't necessarily a reliable source, I agree it's not valid). The "lowest burglary rate in the country" is, I believe, accurate but again the source is the council's website so I've replaced it with a less contentious "burglary rate of almost zero", with appropriate citation. The figures in the "Crime rates" section are cited from reliable sources, and consequently I've left them in place.
- Coverage of the riots was substantially pared back from this article, both to avoid duplication & content-forking from Watts, California, Dresdenetc.
- I've left the redlinks to "Utopia on Trial" in place, as a quick Google search on the title shows that it's still being widely mentioned by WP:BIOas a former professional footballer, the link can be recreated if necessary as and when he gets his own article.
- I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding violations of ]
Non-local police force
There's what seems to be a potentially important comment about a "non-local" police force in the Early regeneration projects subsection, along with a tantalising reference to the Metropolitan Police disbanding the Broadwater Farm Unit in 2005. I can't see that Broadwater Farm Unit having been mentioned before in the article.
I assume it's covered in the riots article, but just a little more info about policing changes might be useful, particularly as the results seem to have been so spectacular. --
Images
I ran across this article while doing Random Page patrol, and I noticed that it did not pass a GA bid. I've made some changes to this article's images that I feel will assist in the overall quality of the article, for its next bid for GA. First, the
- While I've no intention of edit-warring over it, I've reverted your changes. The images with forced image sizes & left alignment are all done so for specific reasons, specifically permitted in the MOS (and with lengthy hidden-text annotations next to each image that deviates from MOS explaining the justification for that particular case, quite aside from the lengthy discussion on the matter here) - allowing images with extreme aspect ratios to display at a reasonable size (at 180px, ]
- Heh, I would never get into a revert war over something like this. But it should be noted that there are no "hidden text" annotations about the images in the article, (perhaps they were removed at some point before I ran into the page), or I would most likely not have made the changes I did. And it is no problem if you want the page displayed this way, I was just trying to help get it cleaned up to perhaps try another GA run, but your explanations are fine, so no worries! ~*Grin*~ Ariel♥Gold 07:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, not to worry - this has been worked & reworked so often the hidden captions may well have wandered off at some point. I don't feel strongly enough either way to squabble if anyone does want to resize them, but I do think this is one of those "exceptional" cases where the sizes need to be forced large, since so much of the text focuses on architectural detail. Since it's never going to be an FA (unless someone does a complete rewrite) the MOS violations don't really matter in any case. — ]
- Heh, I would never get into a revert war over something like this. But it should be noted that there are no "hidden text" annotations about the images in the article, (perhaps they were removed at some point before I ran into the page), or I would most likely not have made the changes I did. And it is no problem if you want the page displayed this way, I was just trying to help get it cleaned up to perhaps try another GA run, but your explanations are fine, so no worries! ~*Grin*~ Ariel♥Gold 07:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
External links modified
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- Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.regenerate-uk.org/downloads/7_london.pdf
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External links modified
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070610020926/http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/historyofbroadwaterfarm.htm to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/historyofbroadwaterfarm.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070430201535/http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/this_day_in_history/this_day_October_6.php to http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/this_day_in_history/this_day_October_6.php
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070609003237/http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100424043036/http://www.haringey.gov.uk/leisure/brucecastlemuseum.htm to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/leisure/brucecastlemuseum.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070609003237/http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070609003237/http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm to http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/community_and_leisure/neighbourhoods/broadwaterfarm/broadwaterservices.htm
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External links modified
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Parking a reference
Booth, Robert (20 June 2018). "Two Tottenham housing blocks at risk of catastrophic collapse". the Guardian. Retrieved 20 June 2018. This gives further history and backgound to another potential tragedy. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:05, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Booth, Robert (21 June 2018). "Haringey council accused of negligence over dangerous Tottenham blocks". the Guardian. Retrieved 21 June 2018. --ClemRutter (talk) 18:06, 21 June 2018 (UTC)