Talk:Delta Phi
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 | On 23 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be St. Elmo Hall. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Issue with Beta chapter
While the withdrawal and renaming of the Yale chapter to create a finals club is fairly standard, if regrettable, what about the on-again, off-again relationship the Fraternity has with the Beta chapter at Brown?
That group uses Delta Phi's symbols and crest, likely uses its ritual, and calls itself the Beta chapter without even a feint at a renaming. In so doing they create a legal problem that could ensnare the national into liability where they have allowed a defacto connection and not vigorously denied the Brown group's linkage to the larger fraternity (and its risk management program). As they say, "membership has its privileges". These "going local" choices, where an Ivy league school chapter severs its national connection for some reason has plagued Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale and, here, Brown. In one situation of which I am familiar, a Dartmouth chapter went local ostensibly as a reaction to short-lived bias clauses, but in reality, they just used the event to abandon a remodeling debt they owed.
Yes. There is a cost to participating in a national fraternity, and of the various benefits, liability insurance is one of the most important. Did the Beta chapter at Brown give up their coverage when they withdrew, as apparently they would not pay a national per capita fee? I think this is an untenable situation, and should be clarified here as Wikipedia will be one of the first resources to which people go when researching a lawsuit. Jax MN (talk) 18:43, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 23 September 2023
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 04:03, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
Delta Phi → St. Elmo Hall – WP:COMMONNAME SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 21:10, 23 September 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 22:15, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - The article has a redirect from St. Elmo Hall already. As the organization is a Greek Letter Organization in origin and "St. Elmo" came about as a nickname, as the fraternity commonly uses the Delta Phi name at some chapters and in interaction with its peers, and because the redirect is clear, I oppose this move. Jax MN (talk) 23:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)]
- Oppose - While common across some chapters, others do not use it, like Cornell.Naraht (talk) 01:11, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose = There are several fraternities that have a Greek letter name and a “hall” nickname name. I compared Delta Phi against the fraternity of Delta Psi which has a Wikipedia article called St. Anthony Hall, rather than its Greek letter name. Both groups have ten active chapters and long histories. Based on chapter websites, social media, and university websites, the UVA is the only Delta Phi chapter that uses St. Elmo Hall as its preferred name; the other nine chapters use Delta Phi. In contrast, with Delta Psi, nine chapters use St. Anthony Hall, with one going by another non-Greek name. In addition, the Delta Phi national website is called Delta Phi, not St. Elmo Hall. The opposite is true for Delta Psi which calls itself St. Anthony Hall on its national website. MOS's naming conventions allow the use of a nickname in the article's title if the nickname is the name most commonly referred to in reliable sources. Thus, it makes sense that St. Anthony Hall is the title of its Wikipedia page. However, there is not enough evidence to prove that St. Elmo Hall is the preferred and/or most common name vs. being a nickname for Delta Phi. Having a redirect from St. Elmo Hall to Delta Phi is the correct and reasonable solution in this case. Rublamb (talk) 20:23, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
Change to Lead
Just as the idea of changing the name was opposed, I also oppose changing the lead to make St. Elmo Hall dominant over the Greek Letters. While the GLO's web page is currently down, a recent copies of the National website (sites?) at https://web.archive.org/web/20201027011710/https://www.deltaphifraternity.org/default.aspx and https://web.archive.org/web/20220307123520/https://www.deltaphifraternity.org/ mention it on the main page *once* . Yes, it is mentioned as becoming synonymous on many campuses on https://web.archive.org/web/20210604043722/https://www.deltaphifraternity.org/page/AbtUs *however*, that does not mean that it counts as a preferred name. IMO, this doesn't even quite meet the level of Phi Gamma Delta commonly going by Fiji, which is the closest comparison that I can make.Naraht (talk) 17:25, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
- The national website is active as Delta Phi Fraternity. Rublamb (talk) 20:25, 28 September 2023 (UTC)