Talk:East Timor at the Olympics

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Best to check the ngrams in a year or so to see if the trend towards the Portuguese name continues to sustain. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:10, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• East Timor at the Olympics → Timor-Leste at the Olympics
• East Timor at the 2002 Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2002 Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2004 Summer Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2004 Summer Olympics
• East Timor at the 2005 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2005 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2008 Summer Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2008 Summer Olympics
• East Timor at the 2008 Summer Paralympics → Timor-Leste at the 2008 Summer Paralympics
• East Timor at the 2009 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2009 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2010 Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2010 Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2010 Asian Para Games → Timor-Leste at the 2010 Asian Para Games
• East Timor at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2010 Summer Youth Olympics
• East Timor at the 2011 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2011 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2011 World Championships in Athletics → Timor-Leste at the 2011 World Championships in Athletics
• East Timor at the 2012 Summer Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2012 Summer Olympics
• East Timor at the 2012 Summer Paralympics → Timor-Leste at the 2012 Summer Paralympics
• East Timor at the 2013 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2013 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2013 World Championships in Athletics → Timor-Leste at the 2013 World Championships in Athletics
• East Timor at the 2014 Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2014 Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2014 Summer Youth Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2014 Summer Youth Olympics
• East Timor at the 2014 Winter Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2014 Winter Olympics
• East Timor at the 2015 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2015 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2016 Summer Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2016 Summer Olympics
• East Timor at the 2016 Summer Paralympics → Timor-Leste at the 2016 Summer Paralympics
• East Timor at the 2016 Winter Youth Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2016 Winter Youth Olympics
• East Timor at the 2017 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games → Timor-Leste at the 2017 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games
• East Timor at the 2017 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2017 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2017 World Aquatics Championships → Timor-Leste at the 2017 World Aquatics Championships
• East Timor at the 2018 Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2018 Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2018 Summer Youth Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2018 Summer Youth Olympics
• East Timor at the 2018 Winter Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2018 Winter Olympics
• East Timor at the 2019 Southeast Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the 2019 Southeast Asian Games
• East Timor at the 2019 World Aquatics Championships → Timor-Leste at the 2019 World Aquatics Championships
• East Timor at the 2020 Summer Olympics → Timor-Leste at the 2020 Summer Olympics
• East Timor at the Asian Games → Timor-Leste at the Asian Games
• East Timor at the Lusofonia Games → Timor-Leste at the Lusofonia Games
• East Timor at the Paralympics → Timor-Leste at the Paralympics
• East Timor at the World Athletics Championships → Timor-Leste at the World Athletics Championships

– East Timor is officially referred to (by pretty much everyone) as Timor-Leste, but there is a long history of not wanting to move it to that page (see the banners at Talk:East_Timor). However, following a discussion at WT:OLYMPICS we figured that a local consensus would be a reasonable exception given that every major sporting agency refers to the country as Timor-Leste (Olympics, Asian Games, FINA, etc). However, this move was overturned (we're apparently a "little-watched WikiProject") and so I am forced to seek a wider consensus. Primefac (talk) 09:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. First of all, thanks to Primefac for bringing this to RM following our discussion on the subject earlier. I had reverted a set of good faith moves based on the discussion above, on the grounds that I wanted it to be discussed at a full RM. On the wider issue of the naming of the country in general, the consensus at
  WP:COMMONNAME, although one might emerge in the future. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 12:28, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose per
  WP:CONSISTENT, as our main article for this country is titled East Timor. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:43, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Comment I don't think
  WP:CONSISTENT is a strong argument here, as the Olympic name of a country is allowed to deviate from its common name (e.g. Chinese Taipei at the Olympics). I think the important question is: Solely in the context of the Olympics, do independent sources refer to the country more often as "East Timor" or "Timor-Leste"? -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:36, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support There is no requirement for the country's article and these articles to be consistent in the title. (See Chinese Taipei at the Olympics as cited earlier, or the Czech Republic's recent use of "Czechia" at the 2022 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships.) OP has demonstrated that, in the context of these competitions, "Timor-Leste" is the common name. 162 etc. (talk) 17:49, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 22:11, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Amakuru and Rreagan007. As one who has consistently supported the use of
  España. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:12, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Strong Support per
  talk) 01:18, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • Inquirer: AFF: PH Azkals U-23 hold Timor Leste to draw
  • GMA Network: Philippines settles for 2-2 draw against Timor-Leste in AFF U-23 campaign opener
  • Manila Standard: PH Under-23 booters start ASEAN bid vs. Timor Leste
  • The Guardian: Alexander Downer called Timor-Leste an ‘open book’ for Australia in 2000, tribunal hears
  • CNN Philippines: Azkals U-23, Timor Leste settle for draw in AFF opener
  • Upstream Online: Trailblazing drilling campaign moves ahead in Timor-Leste
  • Inside the Games: Timor-Leste holds first-ever National Mixed Martial Arts Championships

Timor-Leste is the clear

talk) 01:31, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support. East Timor competes as Timor Leste at international sporting events. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 05:21, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per consistency with
  WP:COMMONNAME, but that is a discussion that should be add on that article, and if there is a consensus that the common name has changed then articles like these can be uncontroversially moved. BilledMammal (talk) 22:19, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support per nomination and per observations of King of Hearts & 162 etc. Timor-Leste appears clearly to be the
  WP:COMMONNAME at least in the context of sporting events. ---CX Zoom(^he/_him) (^{let's talk}|_contribs) 13:40, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose Per
  Spekkios (talk) 21:08, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose per
  WP:CONSUB. BD2412 T 17:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• I'll clarify for those that are unfamiliar with
  WP:CONSUB (as I was) that it is an explanatory supplement, and doesn't have policy or guideline status. 162 etc. (talk) 18:22, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • @
    WP:CONSISTENT (which is policy) should be applied in specific cases. BD2412 T 18:33, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]

• Per
  WP:TITLE should be set aside in the name of consistency, which I definitely disagree with. 162 etc. (talk) 18:46, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  The chosen organizations generally reflect what the country asks that organization to call them; the rare possible exceptions (Taiwan) don't apply here. This makes them a non-independent source, and per

  WP:TITLE we should prefer independent sources, such as the BBC and the New York Times, both of which use "East Timor" in relation to the Olympics. BilledMammal (talk) 04:36, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• Support Timor-Leste competes at major sporting events as Timor-Leste, that should be respected. Of course, going forward 'East Timor at the 2020 Summer Olympics' etc. should always automatically revert. --MorrisIV (talk) 12:51, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]