Talk:Eastern Suburbs (Sydney)

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East??

There doesn't seem to be much "east" of Sydney.... Cilstr (talk) 04:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Divisions

There are very few government/official sources that split the Eastern Suburbs up into sub-regions.

In cases when they do, they split it up into North and South (ABS maps), or North, Middle and South (report from local councils).

As far as I know, there are no government maps that use the phases “Upper Eastern Suburbs” or “South-Eastern Suburbs”. If these maps exist, please share them. Daceyvillain (talk) 12:07, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Youre sad. 49.186.36.122 (talk) 13:08, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I will interpret that as meaning that you couldn’t find any maps. Daceyvillain (talk) 13:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.future.transport.nsw.gov.au/future-transport-plans/south-east-sydney-transport-strategy
Hows the map part of that large report regarding a project dedicated to 'south-eastern Sydney'
Or perhaps you're just too blind to see things that don't coincide with your ignorant opinion of where you live. 49.186.36.122 (talk) 13:26, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
youre so pathetic do believe daceyville is part of the eastern suburbs and to not come to terms with the south-east of Sydney. You've probably never ever been to watsons Bay and don't even own a car. 49.186.36.122 (talk) 13:30, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t live in Daceyville, but it is a very nice suburb generally considered to be in the Eastern Suburbs. Please see the several government sources I linked to in the thread you started on my Talk page Daceyvillain (talk) 13:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The report you linked doesn’t have any maps which define “South East Sydney” or which divide the Eastern Suburbs into any sub regions.
The only relevant region the report defines is a mega region called “Harbour CBD” which includes the Eastern Suburbs, the CBD, and other nearby areas Daceyvillain (talk) 13:35, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.google.com/search?q=south-eastern+sydney+transport&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjOgYjc5oj-AhW0xnMBHY7nBhoQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=south-eastern+sydney+transport&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoECCMQJzoGCAAQBxAeOgQIABAeOgUIABCiBDoECCEQCjoECB4QClDAEFiTImC2JmgAcAB4AIAB8wGIAcoSkgEFMC4yLjmYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=ejMoZM7cJrSNz7sPjs-b0AE&bih=612&biw=360&prmd=mniv#imgrc=uZVdGPCk3yfKDM
If you weren't so mentally inept you would have easily seen the map of the region but I guess I have to make everything easy for you so you don't get too overwhelmed with things outside your mental capacity. 49.186.36.122 (talk) 13:40, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There are several reports on the page you linked to. I think I found the map you are talking about now, but did you read the text that accompanies it?
It defines South East Sydney as a broad overlay over several other regions
“an area encompassing the Eastern Suburbs to the south of Bondi Junction, extending north to Central Station, west to the T4 Illawarra rail line and south to include Rockdale and Brighton Le Sands.”
i.e. the report implies that the Eastern Suburbs continues south past Bondi Junction.
In the report, the part of the Eastern Suburbs to the south of Bondi Junction is considered to also be part of South East Sydney, among with several other regions Daceyvillain (talk) 14:10, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.google.com/search?q=south-eastern+sydney+transport&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjOgYjc5oj-AhW0xnMBHY7nBhoQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=south-eastern+sydney+transport&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoECCMQJzoGCAAQBxAeOgQIABAeOgUIABCiBDoECCEQCjoECB4QClDAEFiTImC2JmgAcAB4AIAB8wGIAcoSkgEFMC4yLjmYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=ejMoZM7cJrSNz7sPjs-b0AE&bih=612&biw=360&prmd=mniv#imgrc=uZVdGPCk3yfKDM&imgdii=A6LVUWkPegDE_M 49.186.36.122 (talk) 13:41, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've never heard of the south-eastern suburbs referred to as the "southern end" of the Eastern Suburbs. Either they are the south-eastern suburbs, or they are just part of the Eastern Suburbs. We cover the two different usages of the term "Eastern Suburbs" with the correct balance at the moment. Please stop trying to invent new terminology --49.255.185.235 (talk) 23:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is you who are inventing things.
Most of the time the Eastern Suburbs is treated as one large region stretching all the way south to La Perouse, which is how I think this page should be structured. But if we insist on divisions, then we should use an official naming scheme that appears on government maps. The ABS uses North and South on their map. Daceyvillain (talk) 00:06, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have updated the page to remove the unusual divisions that were being used Daceyvillain (talk) 00:35, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have reviewed the source provided and did some research to find some additional ones. Based on these, I have restored some of the useful information deleted in the edit war, but I have excluded the controversial information, such as the name "south-eastern suburbs" which does not seem to find clear support in sources.

As someone originally from Sydney, I completely agree that "Eastern Suburbs" is used in two different ways. The narrower one is the one more frequently found in conversation by locals. However, this is only an artefact of history: the suburbs immediately to the east of the town centre were developed first, and development then spread further south, with a mix of residential suburbs, public housing schemes, as well as industry. That's why there are different ways of using the term. There's a lot of interesting things that can be said about this history and the fascinating differences between different parts of the region, but right now it's all getting lost between editors who are more focused on including or excluding certain suburbs.

I suggest that editors lay their sociodemographic prejudices at the door and focus on how to tease the facts out more clearly. For example, this article could do with with a proper history section that outlines the waves of development, and perhaps a demographic section. I suggest looking at the Inner West as an example. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 07:17, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks PalaceGuard. There has been concerted effort for weeks by multiple IPs (although all editing the same intent and style, so I suspect it's 1 or 2 people) to push the concept of South Eastern Sydney, ever since its article got deleted. LibStar (talk) 14:13, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps those IPs were right all along, crazy thought. 203.49.228.129 (talk) 00:20, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Highly unlikely. LibStar (talk) 01:56, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems very likely considering the latest Eastern Suburbs page clearly stating and citing the fact that Sydney's Eastern Suburbs traditionally are all the suburbs directly east of the CBD and not south-east. A fact you and Daceyvillain have been ignoring for months. It's ok though, no one likes admitting they were wrong. 203.49.228.129 (talk) 03:02, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is great that the page is no longer trying to divide the Eastern Suburbs up into subregions with made up names. Daceyvillain (talk) 03:17, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You mean like the name Daceyvillain? 49.195.19.123 (talk) 10:23, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then if what 203.49.228.129 says is true, how come the love of your life "South Eastern Sydney" page got deleted. It didn't have
reliable sources. Yet for months anon IPs were changing suburb and region articles to include this concept of South Eastern Sydney. LibStar (talk) 03:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Unfortunately these suburbs are south-east of Sydney CBD as a map of Sydney will never change. As much as Daceyvillain and LibStar want to believe that Sydney CBD extends to the Airport, it unfortunately never will. But it's ok people never like being wrong. Guess we better sweep all evidence of South-Eastern Sydney under the rug so we don't look stupid, whoopsie. 203.49.228.129 (talk) 08:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe the real South-Eastern Sydney was the friends we made along the way? Nah, but really, in South-Eastern there's the word Eastern. What's wrong with including the airport when there's obviously some sort of truth to the statement? LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 08:07, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Personal attack removed) 49.195.19.123 (talk) 10:24, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Funny that your only 2 edits are on this talk page? Tell me you're not the same person as the other IPs. LibStar (talk) 10:58, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also why the reluctance to create an account? LibStar (talk) 01:59, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Daceyvillain

Daceyvillain is certainly living up to his villain reputation removing reliable, well cited and factual information purely because it doesn't coincide with his own opinion. The page acknowledges that the Eastern Suburbs is Watsons Bay to La Perouse with the five LGAs then goes into detail about the neighbourhoods, federal divisions and official Australian Bureau of Statistics terminology. Someone needs to put an end to this Wikipedia editor's tirade of vandalising pages to push only his own agenda. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC (talk) 02:48, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please register an account. You appear to be using several different IPs to repeatedly vandalise Wikipedia articles with your "original research" Daceyvillain (talk) 02:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not several IP addresses, you could easily tell by words and phrasing. I did not add governance to Eastern Suburbs and I did not put hate speech on this talk page. Looking at everyone's debating it's clear that the Eastern Suburbs page reached a fair and factual compromise of the regions being Watsons Bay to La Perouse as a whole with 5 LGAs then goes into detail about the neighbourhoods, federal divisions and official ABS regions and terminology. However because none of that coincided with your own opinion and wasn't the way you liked it you've simply removed all of that. You need to stop pushing your own agenda vandalising well written and cited information. Wikipedia is for facts, please start a blog if you believe that the eastern suburbs is one neighbourhood from Double Bay to Malabar, but don't use Wikipedia for that. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC (talk) 02:57, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Government documents and maps generally describe the Eastern Suburbs as a contiguous area that includes both Double Bay and Malabar, but you refuse to accept that.
We have already had this debate on several pages, and a very large number of references have been produced to show this.
On the other hand, there are very few government documents and maps which divide the Eastern Suburbs up into sub-areas. In cases when they do (e.g. ABS), they use neutral terminology ("North" vs "upper", "North" vs "traditional") and not the terminology that was being pushed on this page by you.
But in most cases, government documents and maps do not divide the Eastern Suburbs at all. The consensus view of the Eastern Suburbs is indeed one that is is a large, contiguous area. But you keep using anonymous edits and personal attacks to keep pushing your original research. Please stop. Daceyvillain (talk) 03:03, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Once again the Eastern Suburbs page had reached a definitive factual equilibrium after the governance section had been added. It acknowledged the entire region with the well cited accurate sub-region distinctions that were ABS official, there was nothing wrong with it. However because there was one more reference to the 'south-eastern suburbs' added to the page, Daceyvillain lost his self control and felt the need to omit any reference to sub-regions altogether, a concept Daceyvillain has shown strong disdain towards from the start which has not been necessary nor constructive. His biased opinion has not made this page any better and never will. Libstar should be mediating this and taking the side of citations and facts but unfortunately it seems Wikipedia editors play politics defending other editors being destructive over anon IPs being constructive. This entire ordeal regarding the Eastern Suburbs page has made me lose faith in much of Wikipedia's information and reliability altogether. I could only hope another editor comes along and sees this entirely unnecessary and painful ordeal all based off one Wikipedia editors opinion 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC (talk) 03:28, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC. I don't know who any of you are, and I don't live in Daceyville. I have no views on whether Daceyville is as prestigious as Vaucluse or as working class as Maroubra, and frankly I don't care. However, you need to please stop deleting referenced content and inserting your very odd personal viewpoints. It's you alone against the community at the moment.--49.255.185.235 (talk) 05:58, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing you are here because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:49.255.185.235. But I'm not sure if you are just another personality of 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC. Please create an account. Daceyvillain (talk) 06:04, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Editor Mediation and Attention

This page needs new unbiased editor's mediation and attention. What's happening here isn't right and isn't to Wikipedia's benefit. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:64B2:E702:CFE6:10EC (talk) 03:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Create an account and raise the issue at
WP:ANI. LibStar (talk) 03:33, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Daceyvillain is Cooked

What an earth has happened to the Eastern suburbs page, looks like a piece of garbage article out a boring school text book. Daceyvillain is obviously some housing commission wannabe who wants to believe he lives in the Eastern suburbs. He should stick to editing his piece of trash Daceyville article and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Eastern suburbs. He really is one crazy cooked Mofo. 49.186.110.179 (talk) 08:25, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting that this is your first edit, you have definitely edited before on a different IP. LibStar (talk) 09:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mate Daceyville isn't the Eastern suburb. I dont know what's wrong with people on Wikipedia. You guys clearly don't leave your desks and have no clue about the real world, let alone what the Eastern suburbs is. How about instead of sitting at home all day you go to bondi beach to experience the outside world and have a social experiment of asking people what the Eastern suburbs of Sydney is. You can then write down how many people say 'Daceyville'. A bit of sunlight would definitely do you all some good. 49.186.110.179 (talk) 09:45, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was brought into this debate because there was a strange push to remove everything south of Waverley out of the Eastern Suburbs, despite government maps and commercial maps not doing that. I find Daceyville fascinating but I don’t live there. It is generally considered to be Eastern Suburbs, along with neighboring Kingsford and Kensington, but what really confused me was someone trying to remove places like Clovelly and Coogee from the Eastern Suburbs. It made no sense at all. Anyway, if you haven’t seen them, you should be aware that the official maps and definitions usually extend all the way south to La Perouse. Daceyvillain (talk) 16:04, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What government maps say botany and daceyvillre are eastern suburbs and list the Eastern suburbs by post code? You ain't got a clue what youre going on about. 49.195.5.100 (talk) 01:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So now you are appearing as a different IP in the same conversation. LibStar (talk) 01:08, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have no what idea what you keep going on about with IP. I already told you i dont use IP just my phone. Your on this thing even more than daceyville. Youre like the aggressive spectator who enjoys bullying people who say what they think, you act like your on the fence while you and daceyville support each others bs. Maybe your a houso like he is and youre both from the same housing commission neighbourhood. Kind of wish you'd both get a life and stop telling people shit about the Eastern suburbs. 49.195.5.100 (talk) 01:21, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Would save any confusion if you create an account, which you have consistently refused to do. LibStar (talk) 01:24, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here’s yet another government reference
https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf Daceyvillain (talk) 01:23, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And another one: https://www.mysydney.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-05/South%20East%20map.pdf Daceyvillain (talk) 01:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Mate botany bay doesn't even exist any more and its never even been east, its obviously south. All you care about is your dumb suburb of daceyville being eastern suburbs when it ain't.
https://www.google.com/search?q=eastern+suburbs+sydney+map&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&prmd=imnv&sxsrf=APwXEdcHKMKNQx5l3IbVrzzh0IjNwmeGnQ:1680830905421&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiO8K2Iz5b-AhVo1TgGHcZoC48Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=360&bih=612&dpr=3#imgrc=6Rd70WjZ_VAGTM&lnspr=W10= 49.195.5.100 (talk) 01:31, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe the world ends at Bronte for you but I can assure you that Botany Bay still exists Daceyvillain (talk) 01:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Brah your just talking shit now about bronte because I proved your garbage suburb isn't eastern suburb. Botany bay is south Sydney hey. Sucks being wrong. 49.195.5.100 (talk) 01:40, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You asked for government maps, I provided some, and now you refuse to accept them. Daceyvillain (talk) 01:43, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.sydney.com/destinations/sydney/sydney-east
Tell me where your government says daceyville on there. 49.195.5.100 (talk) 01:43, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That appears to be a list of tourist attractions
Some other places that don’t appear as tourist attactions in that list: Waverley, Woollahra, Paddington, Bellevue Hill, Rose Bay, Dover Heights, Point Piper, and more
By your logic none of those places are in the Eastern Suburbs Daceyvillain (talk) 01:52, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Roosters

I work for the Roosters in Bondi and we're an east team. Our club is called Easts as it is in the Eastern suburbs which I presume is why it's on this page. Rabbitohs are for the southern part of the eastern suburbs or south-eastern part of Sydney whatever you wish to call it. Someone keeps saying the roosters is up north in Bondi. I dont know what this means, Bondi is east not north. Up north is the Sea Eagles in Manly. 49.180.215.233 (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you create an account? LibStar (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What's with the postcodes?

Comment: why are there so many (and ever increasing) references to post codes on this page? Suburbs are suburbs, postcodes are postcodes. It's now even crept into the description of the different statistical divisions, where the information given is plainly incorrect: UNSW postcode 2052 is in the "Eastern Suburbs" statistical area, while the debatable "Eastern" suburbs like Daceyville postcode 2032 and Pagewood postcode 2035 etc are not. As far as I can tell, the ABS is not a subsidiary of Australia Post and does not define its statistical areas by reference to postcodes. I know there are some editors who are really hung up about the prestige of their areas being in or out of the Eastern Suburbs, but I don't even understand this obsession with postcodes. Is there some editor who thinks a particular postcode is more prestigious than another?? Once this page goes out of protection, I suggest reverting to the simpler earlier wording in this section rather than muddling it up with postcodes. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 03:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The page always used postcodes, but they were scattered across a few places instead of organised clearly. Postcodes are often how geographic boundaries are defined (by definition) so they seemed like an objective and factual way to organise the page, and a good way to avoid subjective arguments. Daceyvillain (talk) 04:01, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You make a good point. The Waverley Council, Woollahra Council and Centennial Parklands are organised by their postcodes 2021 to 2030, clean and cut with no question in their region. While Randwick Council starts at 2031 and ends in 2036 with the exception of UNSW being 2052. Neighbouring suburbs in Bayside Council being Daceyville, Pagewood, Eastgardens and Hillsdale share Randwick Councils series of postcodes due to the fact that they are in the same area and are only separated by Bunnerong Road which isn't really a boundary to separate the area altogether, it just separates the councils. The Eastern Distributor is the main divider for Eastern Sydney. Would have made more sense if they merged Randwick Council with Botany Bay Council so that you wouldn't have had neighbouring suburbs in the same area sharing the same postcodes being questioned as to whether or not they're part of the same region. The postcodes do help but there are some exceptions which you've pointed out. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:5505:527:A740:3AAC (talk) 12:54, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inner City Suburbs

In the suburb listing you have Surry Hills, Darlinghurst, Woolloomooloo, Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay and Rushcutters Bay with the postcodes 2010 and 2011. These suburbs are very rarely ever referred to as 'Eastern Suburbs' they are usually referred to as Inner City Suburbs which are often included within Central Sydney rather than Eastern Sydney. Sometimes they're called 'Inner City-East' or 'East Sydney'. Their council being City of Sydney and their postcodes being 2010 and 2011 do not fit into the 'Eastern Suburbs' category. These suburbs should either be removed from the page or have a their own titled section called 'Inner City-East' or along those lines, which mentions their neighbouring existence and their localities e.g. Kings Cross but they should not be included in the suburb listing. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:5505:527:A740:3AAC (talk) 13:10, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Map

Here is my attempt at a map of the Eastern Suburbs. The M1 Motorway becomes much easier to cross in Surry Hills, and it is gone/underground by the time Darlinghurst begins, so the boundary there is a bit fuzzy.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Eastern_Suburbs_of_Sydney,_Australia.jpg

Daceyvillain (talk) 05:53, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Hopefully we don't get anon IPs on here attacking you for this. LibStar (talk) 06:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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